Pics attached ....All 3 Marty's done...it's been an awesome 6 week journey! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 320 Old 02-17-2014, 12:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi Guys,

After watching Enders game and seeing how it challenged my current setup at reference volume, I've decided I need to go bigger. Im basically looking for someone in Orange County or close by, who would be willing to help me model / building the enclosure / help me get it all setup. We can either work out a fair price, or I might be interested in trading my current sub in exchange for the help.

my current setup:

Sonotube sub, containing a blueprint 1803 driver. power comes from a qsc rmx2450 that is bridged into 1 channel ( 2400 watts in bridged mono into 4 ohms iirc ). Im also using a behringer feedback destroyer to take care of 2 nasty peaks i had in my room.

1803 sub:
http://www.diysubwoofers.org/talkshop/messages/23680.htm

QSC rmx 2450:
http://www.parts-express.com/qsc-rmx-2450-power-amplifier--245-694

My goal:
Be able to watch blu-rays at reference volume and not worry about my subs not having enough, power/muscle/extension/quality, whatever too keep up. I would also like to not hear my subs make the "chuffing sound". Im think sure this is what happened in enders game ( scene where he is playing the video game and the castle drops ), but i could be wrong and perhaps it was my sub bottoming out / amp clipping...i really dont know.

I was doing some research on the forum and i saw a sub called "the marty sub". i would like to do something very similar to what he did, except id like to hold both 18's in the same enclosure. id like to finish the enclosure in that bedliner/spray on material ( i like to keep things simple, and i think it looks good ) . As for driver choice, I like bang for the buck, so Im thinking the stereo integrity 18 , or the dayton audio HO 18.

here's the thread where i found the marty sub.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1489541/large-ported-dayton-ho18s

I have a good amount of space to work with, but id like to keep the floor dimmension of the box to a max of about 34 x 34 inches or smaller. The height can be what ever it needs to be, but it would be nice, if i didnt have to cover up the 2 movie posters in the corner of the room ( see attached pics ).

So that's it. Anyone in Socal feel like helping out? As I mentioned, I'm glad to pay to have the enclosure built, or i could possbily trade my current sonotube sub ( which still works like new ). Also, Im not oposed to buying prefab sub kits like the one they have on parts express. I'm thinking could buy 2 of these and just stack them. The issue is that they are only 4 cubic feet and i have no idea if that's big enough. They are also sealed, and i think id prefer ported since i heard I'd get more output that way. Truthfully though, im far from a sub pro, like some of the members here, so Im possibly open to sealed subs if there are some pro's that would make sense for me.

http://www.parts-express.com/knock-down-mdf-40-cu-ft-subwoofer-cabinet-for-dayton-audio-18-reference-series-ho-subwoof--300-7079

Please let me know what you guys think!? Thanks...Im fired up to do this, but im sure you all understand that : )













End result for those of you who dont want to read through the thread:



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post #2 of 320 Old 02-17-2014, 12:33 PM
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hi kevin, great post and nice setup.

i'm not in orange county...but any more cold weather and who knows!?

your project isn't difficult at all and there are several folks who are here to help out without you having to bust out your wallet.

let's start at the beginning...how loud do you typically run your system?

and second question: have you taken any measurements to know what the response in your room looks like at the listening position? you mention the fd, but i didn't catch many details on your process with that.
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post #3 of 320 Old 02-17-2014, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

hi kevin, great post and nice setup.

i'm not in orange county...but any more cold weather and who knows!?

your project isn't difficult at all and there are several folks who are here to help out without you having to bust out your wallet.

let's start at the beginning...how loud do you typically run your system?

and second question: have you taken any measurements to know what the response in your room looks like at the listening position? you mention the fd, but i didn't catch many details on your process with that.

Martycube x 2. Would love to see two cubes stacked! He has enough space for it. Don't know how it will sound in that corner compared to listening position.

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post #4 of 320 Old 02-17-2014, 01:46 PM
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O.C. ?
how about in garden grove?
I'm an aggressive lurker here and learn something new everyday . .

I believe I'm a lucky and persistent noob builder - this last summer I built 3 BF FLH's a 24" and 2 30"s , just follow the plans . . .While those designs won't get you response below 20 hz I'm inclined to believe that in the bang for the buck department the 2 30"'s were worth every bit of the $1000 I put into them. my onkyo 818 with XT32 lets me relax about not so much missing the small percent of content below that 20. These baby's got PLENTY - low, loud, clear,sensitive where and when it counts
Of course NOW I read that for about the same price you can build 2 martysubs, and get to use KREG screws and maybe throw a Inuke3000DSP at it them, sounds like a piece of cake from the Katella Deli - sublime . . .
But the questions raised in the above post are from one of this threads resident wizards and while we all begin with the end in mind, the truly successful path starts with the first steps i.e. more info about what currently works and then using that info to get the better direction.
I'm subscribing to this thread. After all you can't be that far away so this could be a good learning experience for both of us.

AS a side note to LTDO2:, could 2 Martysubs be made to play nice with the BF THTLP's? My total adjacent room volume is 5K.

Tell us more.













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post #5 of 320 Old 02-17-2014, 01:49 PM - Thread Starter
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LTD02,

Thx for your reply. That was seriously quick.

As for listening volume. I like to be at -10db to 0db for action/sci fi/horror...the stuff i generally watch.

as for my in room response... I had 2 peaks in the room. one was at around 40-50hz and the other one was around mid 60hz range. I think they were about 3-5 db peaks. I used the behringer to kill those. so right now, id say my room's response is pretty flat.

the l marty cube's ( 2x2x2) iirc, look like great performers for the money, but i like the performance of the larger enclosures. I figure if i have the space to use, no WAF to worrry about ( HT room is my domain: ) ) why not get the best performance possible, with in the constraints of my budget.

Also, this time around i think it would be awesome if i could have the drivers facing out into the home theater. Id still like to have a grill for when my nieces and nephews come over, but it would be awesome to be able to watch the 2 18's pound away for now.

thx again for your reply.


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post #6 of 320 Old 02-17-2014, 01:53 PM - Thread Starter
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asarose.....

Thx for your message! We definatley gotta meet. Sounds like you have alot more experience than me, but im like you......

love to learn, go for it, get fired up on new things.

I'll PM you my contact info.

I leave to texas tomm for a business trip, but come over any time, to check things out.....hell, even tonight if your up for it!

also, do you have any pics you could post of what you built, id love to see the 30's.


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post #7 of 320 Old 02-17-2014, 02:01 PM
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thx for a fast reply.

for further inspiration(!?) some pictures at: williamtomkiel.imgur.com

Current wisdom here seems to prefer that 2 separate 18's spread around the available landscape can get much more favorable results

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post #8 of 320 Old 02-17-2014, 02:10 PM - Thread Starter
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So here are the room dimensions...

19.5 feet across the movie screen side, 14 feed deep-though the room does open up ( see pics ), ceilings are at 8 feet.

Also the bottom of the movie screen image is at about 35 inches.

i do like the idea of placing a sub on the left and right of the center channel, but i don't like the idea of giving up the idea of the corner room gain. isn't putting the subs in the corner, either stacked on another, or both 18's in one enclosure, just like getting free extra performance? why give that up?

Also here are the specs for my qsc amp . id like to keep using it, too keep the cost of this upgrade down ( my wife and i are working on our first baby, and everyone keeps telling me how im gonna be in the poorhouse 0.1 seconds after the kid is born ) : )

The RMX2450 by QSC is rated at 500 watts into 8 ohms, 750 watts into 4 ohms, 1,200 watts into 2 ohms (0.1% THD @ 1 kHz) and 2,400 watts into 4 ohms bridged mono (1% THD @ 1 kHz).

so If the SI 18's can handle 2 ohms than i could do 1200 watt to each which seems pretty good, at least to me. Please someone correct me if im off base here.


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post #9 of 320 Old 02-17-2014, 03:47 PM
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just as a side note, i see you shopping at PE, and i would suggest checking out their forum as there are members who are socal'ers and many are accomplished cabinet builders and at the very least could point you in the right direction of some local shops if you unwilling to try DIY yourself. A sub is a great first project and really hard to screw up. and you get cool tools as well!

I'm in the IE and can help out in whatever way i can as well, though im a terrible builder as my builds stay plywood boxes

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post #10 of 320 Old 02-17-2014, 03:58 PM
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co-location of the subs could over "excite" the same i.e. duplicated room modes and make any subsequent EQ "trickier"
In my mancave, things smoother out much nicer when I pointed the THTLP at the ceiling. IN A CORNER. WIN_WIN,
so far . . .

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post #11 of 320 Old 02-17-2014, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asarose247 View Post

co-location of the subs could over "excite" the same i.e. duplicated room modes and make any subsequent EQ "trickier"
In my mancave, things smoother out much nicer when I pointed the THTLP at the ceiling. IN A CORNER. WIN_WIN,
so far . . .

two subs could also smooth out those same modes if located right

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post #12 of 320 Old 02-17-2014, 04:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manuetdeo View Post

just as a side note, i see you shopping at PE, and i would suggest checking out their forum as there are members who are socal'ers and many are accomplished cabinet builders and at the very least could point you in the right direction of some local shops if you unwilling to try DIY yourself. A sub is a great first project and really hard to screw up. and you get cool tools as well!

I'm in the IE and can help out in whatever way i can as well, though im a terrible builder as my builds stay plywood boxes

Manuetdoe, great idea about the partsexpress forums....i will check that out for sure. out of curiosity, could you pm me a few pics of any of the boxes you have built and any details, such as driver type, size, thoughts on how your project turned out, etc.


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post #13 of 320 Old 02-17-2014, 04:42 PM
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I'd have to takes some pics as im not a pic guy. but i have two infinity 1260w in 4.5 cuft boxes tuned to 23hz with a slot port and are more that good enough for me. i would love to do a marty sub but my wife would never go for it as she tells me to turn it down all the time. if i could do it any of the martysub variations seem really cool. BTW my drivers are $60 at amazon and two with wood and glue would be cheaper that a single HO18 as price is a real concern for me

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post #14 of 320 Old 02-17-2014, 04:54 PM - Thread Starter
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guys,

asarose247 and i have been talking over PM and he is willing to help me build an enclosure if i go that route. This is one option that im waying against just buying the 2 marty sub enclosures.

if the price difference is large, ill probably tackle, if it's not so large, than probably just buy them.

what id like to ask, is if anyone here who is a modeling pro, can help me with the specs of the box. Here's the criteria to consider...

Id like to either make 2 ported boxes with dimensions no bigger than 30 x 30 x 30 per box. As far as tuning goes, i will use this setup for 95% HT, 5% music, and id prefer a tuning frequency that is is not extreme ( my understanding is that you pick up spl where the sub is tuned to , but that spl falls off fast below that point ). So with that in mind i'm thinking id like to tune around 20, since i've heard that thats where a majority of "deep bass" resides, though im not sure about this since I have read about plenty of blu-rays on this forum, that go lower than 20hz ).

The driver will be the either the si18 or dayton ho 18 ( im open to both right now since i think they perform about the same and cost about the same ). Any thoughts on this?

2nd scenario, would be to just make one large enclosure for both subs. kind of like a coloumn shape, with a footprint of about 30 x 30, and the height being anything up to about 6 feet, though im hoping i can keep it under about 50 inches, so that my my framed posters are still visible. If i have to move the pictures though, it's not the end of the world. I know the downside to this is that the bass might be more easily localized, and that i could make peaks and valleys in my room worse, but right now i dont hear any problems as far as localizing the single 18 i have, and the peaks were corrected with the behringer, and so im thinking i would just do that again.

for power, ill use my qsc rmx 2450, so 750 watts per sub at 4 ohms, and 1250 watts per sub at a 2 subs.

Thoughts, DIY wizards?


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post #15 of 320 Old 02-17-2014, 05:08 PM
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the Ho18 with a 30 internal cube tuned to 19hz wth a slot port gets me a flat 115hz at 400w before you hit Xmax, might be something to consider dual subs one on each side. im sure the pros here will weigh in with better ideas than mine

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post #16 of 320 Old 02-17-2014, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manuetdeo View Post

the Ho18 with a 30 internal cube tuned to 19hz wth a slot port gets me a flat 115hz at 400w before you hit Xmax, might be something to consider dual subs one on each side. im sure the pros here will weigh in with better ideas than mine
I'm sure we all read that to mean 115DB

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post #17 of 320 Old 02-18-2014, 08:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Guys,

can anyone with a little modeling experience answer this ? for me:

My current Sonosub is about 25 inches in diameter, 48 tall, with a port of 38 inches in length / 8 inches wide, and contains the blueprint 1803 i mentioned earlier. How would the sound change if i was to simply take out the blueprint, and use the SI18 instead. i checked the cutout size, and they are the same, so this would be easy. One thing that is interesting to me though is that the blueprint has an xmax of over 50mm, while the si18 is rated at 22.5mm with an xmech of 36.5mm. Does this mean that the blueprint cone can move more than si cone or do you add the 22.5 plus 36.5, meaning the si has a better excursion length?

im just curious about this since it would keep cost down since id only have to build or buy one new enclosure instead of 2. (End goal is 2 still end up with 2 18 subs ).
Here's the parameters for each driver:

1803 T/S Parameters
Fs 26.8 Hz
Re 3.6 Ohms
Qms 7.22
Qes .38
Qts 0.35
Cms 130.0 uM/N
Mms 300 grams
Sd 1217.0 cmsq
Vas 279.4 liters
SPL 92.1 dB
BL ?TM
X-max 51.7 mm p-p
RMS 1000 watts +


and here they are for the si18:
Qts 0.296
Qes 0.33
Qms 2.88
Fs 15 Hz
Res 3.5 Ω
Le 1khz 3.86 mH
Sd 0.115 m2
Vas 465 liters
Mms 446.6 grams
Cms 252 μm/N
BL 21.14 Tm
BL2/Res 127.7 N2/W
L/R Time Constant 1.1 milliseconds
SplSens 88.62 dB


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post #18 of 320 Old 02-18-2014, 08:45 PM
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the blueprint driver xmax is almost certainly two-way or point-to-point, whereas most drivers are spec'd one way. so the blueprint xmax is probably closer to 25mm, but who knows.

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post #19 of 320 Old 02-18-2014, 09:18 PM
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looking at the room again, i couldn't help but think that a VERTICAL MARTYSUB! would work well and look cool, so here goes...



it will have the same performance as the full size martysub. of course, a sono-tube could work too, but the front firing driver look is definitely cool. a little veneer on the sides could spruce it up a notch too. :-)

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post #20 of 320 Old 02-18-2014, 10:09 PM
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and of course, with grill, if you want something like that. i hope all that gets at least some creative juices flowing!

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post #21 of 320 Old 02-18-2014, 10:15 PM - Thread Starter
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tonight i got some help offline, from edoggrc51 and Scott Simonian, and I pulled the trigger on 2 si 18's. I am seriously excited. Thx again guys!

LTDO2, thx for putting those renderings together for me. I know i definitely dont wont to do a sonotube again, since thats what i have had for the last 7 years / so im craving something new.

i talked with chalugadp, and the marty cube seems pretty damn great. i love that performance and im sure it would meet my needs. i know i mentioned wanting a larger cab earlier, but the marty cube design seems to give me what i want, and would also keep the cost lower since there is less wood cost. in addition, the smaller footprint of the martycube, would allow me to add 2 more in the future, making a total of 4:D

i really wanted to go with a flat pack, but after meeting a few of the guys on here, i think im gonna tackle making the enclosures with asarose247. this makes sense to me especially, since we can probably build both for around 200-250.

anyhow, ill post updates as they come.


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post #22 of 320 Old 02-18-2014, 10:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Ltd02, that grill design is pretty slick.

im gonna search around the forum for ideas. so far i have seen a few guys do grills held on with small magnets and that seems pretty cool.

thx again for the renderings.

hey, in your opinion. what type of finish is easy to apply but still looks classy? I was thinking duraliner but ive seen a few guys on here saying they werent 100% thrilled with that. Any ideas?


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post #23 of 320 Old 02-18-2014, 10:47 PM
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it really depends how much work you would like to put into it:

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?23810-Dayton-RS-sub-project-Assault-on-SQ

:-)

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post #24 of 320 Old 02-18-2014, 11:12 PM
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post #25 of 320 Old 02-18-2014, 11:12 PM - Thread Starter
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LTD02

Yeah, i checked what you posed and i see your point....

that piano black finish is SEXY;)

and the finish done with spray paint....wow...completly changed my ideas regarding what is possiblem with spray paint!


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post #26 of 320 Old 02-18-2014, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

looking at the room again, i couldn't help but think that a VERTICAL MARTYSUB! would work well and look cool, so here goes...



it will have the same performance as the full size martysub. of course, a sono-tube could work too, but the front firing driver look is definitely cool. a little veneer on the sides could spruce it up a notch too. :-)

Another great creation John. I really like the look of the black top and front with the veneered side panels. The Marty-cube also looks stellar.

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post #27 of 320 Old 02-18-2014, 11:43 PM
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the primary complaint with respect to the full martysub is that it is so big. with the vertical arrangement, the footprint is reduced quite a bit. that will be just what a few folks are looking for.

"and the finish done with spray paint....wow...completly changed my ideas regarding what is possiblem with spray paint!"

the key to paint on mdf is to get it sealed up with primer or something else otherwise the mdf will 'drink' the paint particularly on the end grain.

i'm looking forward to seeing what you cook up.

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post #28 of 320 Old 02-19-2014, 07:47 AM
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tonight i got some help offline, from edoggrc51 and Scott Simonian, and I pulled the trigger on 2 si 18's. I am seriously excited. Thx again guys!
No problem man. Looking forward to meeting ya tomorrow. smile.gif

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post #29 of 320 Old 02-19-2014, 02:59 PM
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sweet! can't wait for pics!

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post #30 of 320 Old 02-21-2014, 07:38 PM
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Hey there Kevin,

I'm just up the road a bit in 91344. If you need anything let me know. I have my own CNC ... so you can really let your imagination run if you want.

Joel
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