Originally Posted by tuxedocivic
^ that's an excellent test except for the headphones part. The drivers in a set of headphones typically start to gently roll off around 200hz and sharply below 50hz. I'm talking about good muffs. They rely of the nearfield gain to get them flat, but their output really can't be trusted below I'd suggest 30 to 40hz. You probably could get some sense of bass above 25hz, which fits your findings.
I just wonder if the experience would have been different on a system capable of ULF. I know bosso bass does this for his guests. Full range, then 20hz filtered. And apparently its dead obvious.
As I mentioned in another thread, <20 Hz is perceived by senses other than hearing and through different mediums, all lost when using headphones.
Not only is it dead obvious, I rarely do the test for guests at reference level because most of them are not ready for that sort of aural assault.
Originally Posted by nube
Just to add to what kgveteran and bossobass said about reproducing everything that's on a recording, which I generally agree with, in case anybody hasn't seen it, maxmercy has a project at Josh Ricci's Data-Bass.com forums
, objectively measuring movies for content and ranking them by that content.
The results are a treasure trove of information on this matter - and one that the OP has already found, considering he asked the same question over there. The truth is that there is a ton of content below 20Hz in many action movies from the last two decades, and several new movies exhibit large amounts of content below 20Hz. The content below 20Hz may not matter to you, but there is a lot of it, and its prevalence is increasing. A few of these individual movies to check out graphs of are:
The point is, this isn't a rare phenomenon, it's definitely completely intentional, it's stuff we experience in real life almost constantly, at various levels, and it's becoming much more commonly included in movie mixes. In fact, a good representation of the top sound designers and mixers in Hollywood (by Academy recognition via awards) are the ones whose mixes most frequently have this content. I don't know about its prevalence music, as I don't care about bass in music that much unless it seems lacking.
For me, at least 5Hz was a design goal. I can hear tones easily differentiated down to 10Hz, but below that adds something that is partially hearing, but with additional sensations. I'm one of those (seemingly rare) people who is very sensitive to stuff below 20Hz. I live close to an AFB and can hear/feel the Ospreys flying overhead miles before anyone else I know can. It's actually a weird and somewhat unpleasant sensation, one that makes my head feel almost the same as I've felt in the rare cases when I've gotten carsick. I now wonder if the two are related, since driving in a car exposes us to a LOT of relatively high level sound below 20Hz. I also wonder if all those ear infections and cases of strep throat I had as a kid contributed to this sensitivity. Luckily they never involved tubes!
Anyway, when experiencing content below 20Hz at home, the feeling is much the same as what I just mentioned. It's really obvious to me, and adds a level of realism that I personally need to feel immersed in movies. I have come to expect it for on-screen events involving large structures and big, heavy things, as well as for large explosions, because that's how they sound and feel to me in real life.
Again, agree 100%.
It took me years to acclimate to <20 Hz content in recorded source. It's a relatively new experience for humans. I once took a laptop to the railroad tracks and recorded a train going by at about 20 feet distance. I felt the experience as much as or more than I heard it and the recording verified why. Those loaded freight trains move the earth underneath you, so why shouldn't a cinematic portrayal of the same event have the same effect on a proportional scale? To me, that's what separates a good movie from a great movie because the film industry has the visual part down and can even depict the event from places we would never be able to experience it from, like sitting between the 2 tracks.
This was my beef with the train wreck in Super 8. I can only imagine what it would have sounded/felt like to be anywhere near that same freight train had it wrecked as violently as the one in S8, yet the ST for S8 was completely devoid of the bottom octaves in that scene. That gave the scene a cartoonish feel that took me right out of the movie.
These days, I know when there is content <20 Hz without the need to measure it and I don't have to be anywhere near reference levels with the subs calibrated flat.
Originally Posted by notnyt
I disagree. But that's just my opinion.
Actually, maybe not. Because without the trandsucers, I would not be happy
They add far more than the subs in my opinion down into the single digits.
I guess part of how you get there factors into the equation as well.
You prefer a radically loud presentation. Pushing MVL above reference with the subs +15dB hot is radical loud. IMO, although I don't find any fault in that preference because it is, after all, a personal preference, it de-sensitizes one to the ultra low end through masking, etc. and that's why you prefer the shakers. Just my opinion as well, but either way, this is why I shy away from personal subjective descriptions on the subject. TOpinions evolve over time with acclimation and the inevitable progress of hardware and software improvements and will always tend toward the latest upgrade experience.
I just want what's on the disc. Like/dislike is for the overall experience, not just the low end. If the movie sucks, the movie sucks and it's the production team's ass, not mine.