subwoofer hum, im stumped - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 45 Old 02-23-2014, 02:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Dayton Audio T1504K 15" Titanic Mk 4 1000 Watt Subwoofer Kit



I am having a strange issue with the above kit. The subwoofer emits a very low hum when I plug it into my wall outlet. Since I have an outlet every 8ft. I tried multiple outlets with the same result. I then tried different power cables. (even the cable from my B&W ASW 15" 1,000 watt amp with the same results. I then tried switching out the RCA cables. Same issue. The only time I do not hear any hum is when I use a cheater plug. But then the sub is NOT grounded. Any suggestions?

I am using a Denon 4311CI receiver with a Y cable to power both 15" subs. The 2nd sub out is used for 2 passive 15" Dayton Ultimax subs. On the rear of the Titanic plate amp I am using the LFE out. Would it make a difference if I bought a Y cable and connected to left and right out into a single rca back to my amp? Should I change any of the settings on the plate amp itself? The EQ settings or anything. I just cant figure out why its humming. Im out of ideas and need your help.

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post #2 of 45 Old 02-23-2014, 02:52 PM
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You have a ground loop. You need to transformer isolate the interconnect.

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post #3 of 45 Old 02-23-2014, 02:59 PM
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Try using a a grounded/balanced input if possible. Can the amps accept balanced if so the 4311 chassis ground screw can serve as the connection point for the third wire.
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post #4 of 45 Old 02-23-2014, 03:08 PM - Thread Starter
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the 4311 only has rca connectors no xlrI can understand the ground loop but why is it only happening to 1 sub and not the other. They are both RCA plate amps. B&W ASW 855 is a 1,000 watt 15" driver and the Dayton Titanic is a 1,000 watt 15" driver. Confuse as to why the Dayton hums but the B&W does not. They are both using the same Y cable from the rear of my receiver. ifits a ground loop shouldn't both be humming? Just curious.

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post #5 of 45 Old 02-23-2014, 03:12 PM - Thread Starter
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here is the back of the 4311CI


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post #6 of 45 Old 02-23-2014, 03:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

You have a ground loop. You need to transformer isolate the interconnect.

is this what I need? http://www.parts-express.com/ground-loop-isolator--265-012

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post #7 of 45 Old 02-23-2014, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by rlhaudio View Post

ifits a ground loop shouldn't both be humming?
Some amps have better internal grounding protocols than others. Unbalanced connections are an invitation for ground loops, as are remotely placed amps. The combination of the two almost guarantees them unless the amp is very well engineered. That should do it.

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post #8 of 45 Old 02-23-2014, 03:42 PM
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The 4311 doesn't need the xlr cable for what I was saying. The little screw on the back of the avr can serve as the balanced wire running to the "amp". Try just hooking an iPod/phone directly to your amp without the avr and see if it hums. If doesn't then can just add the wire. If does hum then would use bills advice.
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post #9 of 45 Old 02-23-2014, 05:10 PM - Thread Starter
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ok, thanks Ill give it a try

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post #10 of 45 Old 06-01-2014, 12:25 PM
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What was the result of this? I am having the same issue with a Dayton sub kit.
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post #11 of 45 Old 06-02-2014, 10:50 PM
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post #12 of 45 Old 06-03-2014, 05:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cessna1466u View Post

Just out of curiosity do either of you have Directv?
Almost all CATV/SATV rigs are poorly engineered with respect to ground loop issues, even a simple direct cable connection without a convertor box. Transformer isolation of the cable connection is almost always required.

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post #13 of 45 Old 06-03-2014, 05:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Some amps have better internal grounding protocols than others. Unbalanced connections are an invitation for ground loops, as are remotely placed amps. The combination of the two almost guarantees them unless the amp is very well engineered.
That should do it.

Will that have any effect on FR?

I get hum through my subs connected through Ep4000's from RCA > XLR from my reciever.
I was wondering if I needed a cable isolator or an RCA isolator for the amps.... my cable looks poorly grounded but It's not connected to anything down here (no cable tv) only the internet modem.
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post #14 of 45 Old 06-03-2014, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Thatsnasty View Post

Will that have any effect on FR?

I get hum through my subs connected through Ep4000's from RCA > XLR from my reciever.
I was wondering if I needed a cable isolator or an RCA isolator for the amps.... my cable looks poorly grounded but It's not connected to anything down here (no cable tv) only the internet modem.
If you use an isolation transformer it may reduce bandwidth. You want to check the specs.

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post #15 of 45 Old 06-03-2014, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlhaudio View Post

Dayton Audio T1504K 15" Titanic Mk 4 1000 Watt Subwoofer Kit



I am having a strange issue with the above kit. The subwoofer emits a very low hum when I plug it into my wall outlet. Since I have an outlet every 8ft. I tried multiple outlets with the same result. I then tried different power cables. (even the cable from my B&W ASW 15" 1,000 watt amp with the same results. I then tried switching out the RCA cables. Same issue. The only time I do not hear any hum is when I use a cheater plug. But then the sub is NOT grounded. Any suggestions?

I am using a Denon 4311CI receiver with a Y cable to power both 15" subs. The 2nd sub out is used for 2 passive 15" Dayton Ultimax subs. On the rear of the Titanic plate amp I am using the LFE out. Would it make a difference if I bought a Y cable and connected to left and right out into a single rca back to my amp? Should I change any of the settings on the plate amp itself? The EQ settings or anything. I just cant figure out why its humming. Im out of ideas and need your help.



I had the same issue and could not get rid of the ground loop, tried everything isolators,conditioners you name it nothing worked.
Accidentally I noticed an advertising for a Product that I thought would be another waste of time and ignored it.
Then after some time I noticed this product again it came up on my iPad , so I sent for one and well it worked beautifully no more hum. Best deal yet.
It is called the Hum-X and the company's link is www.Ebtechaudio.com, I spoke with a tech who was very helpful. There's a video on the site that demonstrates how it works. Just plug the three prong into the hum-x just like the cheater plug however this setup has a three prong on it maintaining proper ground. I bought mine from www.Bhphotovideo.com
Good luck.




PeterV
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post #16 of 45 Old 06-04-2014, 09:46 AM
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I had a similar problem with a Behringer iNuke amp and asked for help: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1533186/help-troubleshooting-inuke-nu6000dsp-buzz-hum-at-sub

My problem was fixed by grounding my cable-TV service where it enters my house. I would never have looked there but someone suggested it here.

Good luck!

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post #17 of 45 Old 06-04-2014, 12:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for that post. I was seriously thinking of cutting holes and making it passive. The isolator did nothing. I even ran a 50 ft extension cord to other outlets which didn't help. I even tried a different RCA cable. NOTHING worked. Now it sits unplugged and a waste of $700.00. Upset that Parts Express has no idea this is happening. Maybe we are the only 2. lol I'll buy the Hum X and pray it works.

Again, thank you.

Frustrated.

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post #18 of 45 Old 06-04-2014, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlhaudio View Post

Thanks for that post. I was seriously thinking of cutting holes and making it passive. The isolator did nothing. I even ran a 50 ft extension cord to other outlets which didn't help. I even tried a different RCA cable. NOTHING worked. Now it sits unplugged and a waste of $700.00. Upset that Parts Express has no idea this is happening. Maybe we are the only 2. lol I'll buy the Hum X and pray it works.

Again, thank you.

Frustrated.



Send that useless isolator back get your money to. They all make claims and don't deliver, the only one that has worked is this hum-x .
I checked my ground at the cabl/tv's entrance and all looks good wires are connected.





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post #19 of 45 Old 06-04-2014, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlhaudio View Post

Thanks for that post. I was seriously thinking of cutting holes and making it passive. The isolator did nothing. I even ran a 50 ft extension cord to other outlets which didn't help. I even tried a different RCA cable. NOTHING worked. Now it sits unplugged and a waste of $700.00. Upset that Parts Express has no idea this is happening. Maybe we are the only 2. lol I'll buy the Hum X and pray it works.

Again, thank you.

Frustrated.

Have you hooked up a phone to the input(s)???? I'm trying to give easy advice how to fix this but dont think my input has been tried. Use a headphone to "whatever" cable you want to use and only use the phone and amplifier to test the signal!! If no buzz/hum then can proceed further by adding a third wire to you RCA cables which will ground the signal from avr to amplifier and eliminate the problem. Been there done it fixed it when nothing else worked!


Edit. You kind of responded to one of my previous posts by saying your 4311 does have xlr outputs. I know and neither does "mine". It has a ground screw on the back that will serve as the third wire if the phone test proves its a problem between the avr and amp. I too have many other amps that didnt hum/buzz but one that did and this was the only way I could find to fix it.
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post #20 of 45 Old 06-04-2014, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post

Have you hooked up a phone to the input(s)???? I'm trying to give easy advice how to fix this but dont think my input has been tried. Use a headphone to "whatever" cable you want to use and only use the phone and amplifier to test the signal!! If no buzz/hum then can proceed further by adding a third wire to you RCA cables which will ground the signal from avr to amplifier and eliminate the problem. Been there done it fixed it when nothing else worked!


Edit. You kind of responded to one of my previous posts by saying your 4311 does have xlr outputs. I know and neither does "mine". It has a ground screw on the back that will serve as the third wire if the phone test proves its a problem between the avr and amp. I too have many other amps that didnt hum/buzz but one that did and this was the only way I could find to fix it.



Please tell which screw on the back of reciever to amp are you connecting the wire . A diagram would be nice. tongue.gif
A good many people would like this information please and thank you very much.



PeterV
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post #21 of 45 Old 06-04-2014, 02:49 PM
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Here is the conversation where "Not" helped walk me through it.

Edit correct link now
Lab Gruppen FP14000 clone amplifiers

First will need to confirm that an ungrounded source (phone, iPod, iPad, etc..) will eliminate the hum when it is plugged into the amp and used as the amp's pre/source. Only hook the amp up to an outlet that you know doesn't cause problems (your other amps outlet) and proceed from there.

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post #22 of 45 Old 06-13-2014, 08:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Here is what corrected the problem. I unplugged my Inuke 1000 dsp and the problem Is solved. NO HUM!. I can connect my Crown XLS 1500 amp and everything is fine. As soon as I plug in my Inuke the hum returns. The problem lies with the Inuke. But where and why?
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post #23 of 45 Old 06-13-2014, 08:55 AM
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It hums without an input connected? Just speakers and power equals hum?
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post #24 of 45 Old 06-13-2014, 05:38 PM - Thread Starter
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I have my L,C,R speakers connected to my 3 inukes 1000dsp in bridge mode. I also have 2 Crown XLS 1500 powering 2 passive subs along with 2 plate subs. The Dayton MK4 is the plate amp sub that HUM's.
I had one inuke fail so I boxed it up to exchange. While doing so I just connected all 3 speakers to my Denon speaker outputs. (I wanted to keep all 3 at the same level) When I did so, I noticed the HUM was gone. I reconnected my I nukes and 2 speakers and the HUM returned. It has to be something with the Inuke grounding. I cant blame it on a feedback loop or it would still be humming when my Crown amps are connected. When I use my crown amps and the denon I have zero hum. The hum has to be feedback from something caused by the Inuke, maybe something with the Inuke internal power supply. I would like to know what its doing to the AC outlets to cause a feedback hum.
Weird..
The only other option would be powering 5 pro amps is too much for my home electrical thus causing AC distortion which is causing my Dayton MK4 plate amp to hum. I tried running an extension cord to other outlets, failed. tried a cheater plug, failed. Spent money on that crappy RCA isolator, failed. Was about to buy a $50 Hum-X and pray it worked. Now I may just sell my Inuke. Problem solved. Besides, the Inuke cost $200.00. the Dayton MK4 was $700.00. That's an easy sell

But I am still curious as to WHY the Inuke is causing the problem. They are many members using I nukes but I wonder how many are using the Dayton MK4 plate amp? P.E. tech support said it was the cable/sat. tv. (except I have neither connected to my home) just internet. lol Next....
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post #25 of 45 Old 06-14-2014, 01:45 PM
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You need to read how to use a grounded input from the link I posted above where Not helped me fix a problem exactly like this. If the amp does NOT hum without an input signal from a source then it's technically not a problem with the amp. Just because one amp hums and others do not that doesn't mean it's the amp. I had 4 amps with no hum and 1 that did no matter how I connected them or which outlets or cables were used. I too blamed a faulty amp as the problem just like you are doing until member "Not" helped me properly run a ground input signal to it from my AVR. It's simple and should be the first thing one should do before buying all kinds of needless garbage. Hook a phone, iPod, MP3 player up to the amp and I bet you there will not be any humming!!!!!!

A grounded input cable to the amp from your AVR will almost certainly fix the problem. I've posted this same info multiple times but continues to fall on deaf ears. No offense but until you have tried what I posted a while back there is no reason to blame the amp. Some amps just don't play nicely without a true grounded input. Nature of the beast.

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post #26 of 45 Old 06-15-2014, 04:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post
You need to read how to use a grounded input from the link I posted above where Not helped me fix a problem exactly like this. If the amp does NOT hum without an input signal from a source then it's technically not a problem with the amp. Just because one amp hums and others do not that doesn't mean it's the amp. I had 4 amps with no hum and 1 that did no matter how I connected them or which outlets or cables were used. I too blamed a faulty amp as the problem just like you are doing until member "Not" helped me properly run a ground input signal to it from my AVR. It's simple and should be the first thing one should do before buying all kinds of needless garbage. Hook a phone, iPod, MP3 player up to the amp and I bet you there will not be any humming!!!!!!

A grounded input cable to the amp from your AVR will almost certainly fix the problem. I've posted this same info multiple times but continues to fall on deaf ears. No offense but until you have tried what I posted a while back there is no reason to blame the amp. Some amps just don't play nicely without a true grounded input. Nature of the beast.
So what if your receiver does not have a ground screw? How then would you connect and ground an amplifier to a receiver?
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post #27 of 45 Old 06-15-2014, 06:17 AM
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If your receiver has an FM coaxial plug on it, you could run a coaxial off of it and then wire the ground in many different ways from that.

I would second that whenever I run a new amp I run a ground cable back to the receiver as well and don't have problems with hum.

I recently added an inuke 6000 DSP driving two UXL-18's. I was going to modify the fans, but after seeing many members with airflow issues, I decided to put it in a mechanical closet about 30' from the receiver. I purchased a Blue Jeans Cable sub cable and ran the two speaker cables, the ground cable and a 12 volt trigger switch back to the receiver.

I use coax cable for just about everything including the ground cables. I have a "block" with 8 coax connections that I plug everything back into near my receiver and ground it all to the same outlet ground.

All hum that I had is gone, other than when I switch everything on, I get an audible hum out of the UXL subs prior to the receiver locking in the HDMI input. Once the handshake is made and it clicks all hum is gone.

I also use to get hum in my mains as I have them on an active crossover. Grounding everything together fixed this issue, though I do still get a hiss, but I believe that is amp related and the fact that the compression drivers are over 100 db efficient.

Good luck, hum sucks.


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post #28 of 45 Old 06-15-2014, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post
You need to read how to use a grounded input from the link I posted above where Not helped me fix a problem exactly like this. If the amp does NOT hum without an input signal from a source then it's technically not a problem with the amp. Just because one amp hums and others do not that doesn't mean it's the amp. I had 4 amps with no hum and 1 that did no matter how I connected them or which outlets or cables were used. I too blamed a faulty amp as the problem just like you are doing until member "Not" helped me properly run a ground input signal to it from my AVR. It's simple and should be the first thing one should do before buying all kinds of needless garbage. Hook a phone, iPod, MP3 player up to the amp and I bet you there will not be any humming!!!!!!

A grounded input cable to the amp from your AVR will almost certainly fix the problem. I've posted this same info multiple times but continues to fall on deaf ears. No offense but until you have tried what I posted a while back there is no reason to blame the amp. Some amps just don't play nicely without a true grounded input. Nature of the beast.
So what if your receiver does not have a ground screw? How then would you connect and ground an amplifier to a receiver?
If the above answer didn't help, you can use "any" grounded source I am guessing. I can't say for 100% certainly but I would imagine having a grounded signal is the main objective in doing this. If it causes a "ground loop hum" by creating a separate ground try grounding to something that is on the same circuit would be my guess. I'm just relaying info on how to do it with most avrs since a ground screw is common but using what little common sense I have when there isn't one available. "Not" or many others may give a completely different answer as this is just my guess. Grounds are just that, a ground source and in this case keeping it the same between the AVR and amp input is the goal so.....
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post #29 of 45 Old 06-15-2014, 06:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Why does this only happen when the Inukes are connected and NOT the Crown amps?
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post #30 of 45 Old 06-15-2014, 06:51 PM
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Interestingly...gain people and ground people will be weighing in here I suppose.
For instance, I placed a miniDSP 2x4 balanced in my signal chain along with two EP4000 amps feeding my four subs and hum was introduced where there was none before (there's a whole mess of posts about it...I am not going to link right now).
Took the miniDSP out and the hum disappeared.
Replaced the EP4000s with two Crest Pro-LITE 5.0s...no hum.
Placed two QSC DSP4 units in the chain, hum was introduced.
Ground lift and no ground lift isolated circuit. No dice either way. Adjustable in and out on the DSP4s, still no dice. Oh well...I minimized it to the point of next to nothing and will leave well enough alone.
This is where I should insert a pic of the white jacket I will need soon, but I am too lazy to post one.
Grrrrr....

Last edited by blah450; 06-15-2014 at 06:53 PM.
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