New Mini DSP product with Dirac Live room correction - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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Old 05-08-2014, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

How does a bright curve have anything to do with bass headroom?

It doesn't, obviously. They are separate issues.

EQ boosts/cuts inevitably affect headroom. The former in an obvious way, the latter because the overall level probably needs to go up.

The bright curve likely causes the "digital haze." Especially if that's a listening position measurement - assuming there that it's not a useless single-point deal but a sound power measurement, see Geddes and Blind 1986 - then that's gonna be bright. If it's a nearfield measurement, then perhaps my inference is incorrect.

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Old 05-09-2014, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

It doesn't, obviously. They are separate issues.

EQ boosts/cuts inevitably affect headroom. The former in an obvious way, the latter because the overall level probably needs to go up.

The bright curve likely causes the "digital haze." Especially if that's a listening position measurement - assuming there that it's not a useless single-point deal but a sound power measurement, see Geddes and Blind 1986 - then that's gonna be bright. If it's a nearfield measurement, then perhaps my inference is incorrect.

My mistake, I never saw the whole post, just your quote. I have read that EQ does not diminish headroom assuming you are not amp limited. The response will just return back to the uneq'd response once the limits or compression begins at the speakers least sensitive or weakest point.

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Old 05-09-2014, 09:45 AM
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Can you explain how this devise is different, better, or worse than what JRiver's software is capable of? I have always been under the impression that JRiver is not only a file storage & streaming solution for both movies & music, but, can it also not do advanced room correction and/or endless EQ options? If you want to have the ability to stream movies or music, and have lots of EQ options then isn't JRiver a pretty sweet solution? All that would be required to get the goods from JRiver is a nice sound card, right?

Dirac PC solution applies filtering to all sound through the system. Jriver will only apply to sound passed through it.

This may or may not matter to some but I like that dirac will correct in WMC, games etc.

Additionally, as mentioned, Jriver will correct, but only if you generate filters with Acourate or one of the other compatible solutions that is also additional cost.
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Old 05-09-2014, 11:55 AM
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The problem I had is that I listen to bass music that is already near 0dbFS digitally, so any boost caused the soundcard to clip digitally; forcing me to lower the overall output by 6db.
This was before I bought a pre-amp, so the loss of -6db was a big deal for me.

I think the "haze" was from the resampling and bit manipulations of the processing, overall I'd give Dirac Live PC version an 8.5 out of 10; and the Emotiva EQ in the UMC-1 a 4 out of 10.
I tried all sorts of curves: flat, house curve etc.
.
I think most people wouldn't notice the difference, especially for movies.
Dirac would be great for people who can't deploy any room treatments and don't have very good electronics or speakers.
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Old 05-09-2014, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

My mistake, I never saw the whole post, just your quote. I have read that EQ does not diminish headroom assuming you are not amp limited.

EQ basically always diminishes headroom. The question is whether that diminishment is relevant and material. That depends how much work the EQ needs to do, and the spare headroom in the system (amps, speaker power-handling, etc.).

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Old 05-10-2014, 09:40 PM
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Yes but to me whether you EQ or not the weak link will be the range where you have less sensitivity, a null, or both. So it may seem louder with those peaks but the speaker will still be limited by its room response and if you EQ flat you are just taking away those artificial peaks to sound better.

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Old 05-11-2014, 12:46 PM
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One aspect which has been often overlooked when testing Dirac Live is a careful tuning of the DSP gain... somehow our fault because that control is almost hidden.

The DSP gain is conservatively set (as a default) at a -8dB value to stay on the safe side in avoiding digital clipping... it then has to be set by the user because the optimal setting depends on two interconnected factors, the correction required by the specific listening room and the recording (good quality and "old school" recordings are less likely to incur into digital clipping while recordings that follow the "loudness war" guidelines require more headroom)

As a result it is important to set a DSP gain in the DAP (Dirac Audio Processor) that is as close to zero as possible but does not clip, but we will have to spend some time in finding the right balance for our music collection.

 

Another sometimes useful aspect is the possibility to limit the correction to a region of frequencies, this is done by simply moving leftwise the right curtain handle.

if we look at the frequency response everybody is looking for a "neutral balance" but a perceived neutral balance can be different from a linear frequency response, i.e. several listeners very much like the sound of the LS3/5A which feature a willingly modified frequency response (you may google about the BBC dip) and in general many speaker manufacturers have applied some sort of "voicing" which gives their unique character to their products.

 

Listeners have often spent many years in selecting the speakers of their liking so it is no coincidence that they prefer that specific tonal balance in their room with their recordings... even more so because recordings themselves are an intertwined factor and the monitors which have been used had a tonal balance of their own which influenced the recordings (again you may google i.e. about the NS10M which had a 'characterful' tonal balance and were popular in the studios in the past)

In conclusion in real life we have to find our own right correction which works on the average of our music material and sometimes this may mean either tailoring the target curve to be similar to the original average response or limiting the correction to a region of frequencies.

 

In other words we need a tool that is flexible and powerful enough to easily adjust the target curve, DSP gain and range of intervention to our specific requirements.

 

My two cents...

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Old 05-11-2014, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by flax View Post

Another sometimes useful aspect is the possibility to limit the correction to a region of frequencies, this is done by simply moving leftwise the right curtain handle.

Dirac can do that? Didn't know that, but good for them because the ability to limit correction makes it a far more useful product. Can it base correction on different measurements, too? (For example, correct below 500Hz from a spatial average at the listening position, spliced with EQ for the speakers based on their nearfield axial response?) That's perhaps more trouble than many are willing to go to, but it's the highest-fidelity way to use DSP correction

IMO, correction based on listening position measurements above the modal region is mostly useless. IMO, if you don't have the mids and highs you want, get better speakers. Room correction helps where the problem is the room (i.e. modal region and below) not elsewhere in the chain.

Good stuff on digital threshold setting.

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Old 05-11-2014, 06:04 PM
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(For example, correct below 500Hz from a spatial average at the listening position, spliced with EQ for the speakers based on their nearfield axial response?)

Not sure I understand what you are saying exactly, but you can use a different frequency response for each speaker and also move the curtain individually for each one.
I had the trial version for 2 weeks.
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Old 05-11-2014, 06:56 PM
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(For example, correct below 500Hz from a spatial average at the listening position, spliced with EQ for the speakers based on their nearfield axial response?)

Not sure I understand what you are saying exactly, but you can use a different frequency response for each speaker and also move the curtain individually for each one.

That's a "no." Which means to me that it's probably great for nearfield use as a broadband EQ, but for a multichannel living room system it's better to limit the correction bandwidth to the modal region and down.

I'm asking if it can use two different frequency responses (one at the listening position for the lower stuff, and a nearfield measurement above the transition region) for a single speaker.

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Old 05-11-2014, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post
(For example, correct below 500Hz from a spatial average at the listening position, spliced with EQ for the speakers based on their nearfield axial response?) 

Nope.


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Old 05-12-2014, 03:26 AM
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Sorry, didn't think I understood what you were saying
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Old 05-14-2014, 03:05 AM
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Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

That's a "no." Which means to me that it's probably great for nearfield use as a broadband EQ, but for a multichannel living room system it's better to limit the correction bandwidth to the modal region and down.
I'm asking if it can use two different frequency responses (one at the listening position for the lower stuff, and a nearfield measurement above the transition region) for a single speaker.

You could "trick" the software by running it once spatially and taking note of the modal corrections for <500hz, and then reset everything and re-run the tests near-field and then manually reapply the <500hz corrections.
You could do that with nearly any EQ system, not just Dirac, the only problem is that it isn't automatic; but at least the output from the speakers would be flat-ish and the bass response corrected for.... and the room reflection problems could be solved with acoustical panels placed at strategic locations.
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Old 07-31-2014, 04:39 PM
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Anyone else jump on the July sale? I wanted to wait until the proper OSX plugin was out, but the sale was compelling enough for me to pick up an IMO unfinished product. Hopefully the plugin for modern computers follows shortly.

I'm going to use the DDRC-22D as my nearfield system preamp (fed by the optical pass-through from my Meridian Explorer), ABS/EBU balanced digital out to a PWR-ICE125 to power my nearfield mains, and ABS/EBU daisy chain to power my nearfield sub. Cool thing is that the DAC is pushed all the way out to the plate amps: no AD-DA loops at all in the system.

I never liked the Dirac-as-software idea, because you have to remember to turn it off when you use headphones. An outboard box is IMO the way to go.

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