Any issues using 12 AWG 4 conductor wire? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 14 Old 03-02-2014, 03:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Just checking before I purchase wire.

 

I have 1 inch snurf tubing to front and rear..................I'm thinking rather than pulling two separate runs of inwall Cl3 rated 12 AWG 2 conductor wire it would be much easier to pull one 4 Conductor 12 AWG run.  I have four 90 degree turns to navigate and am not looking forward to it. Breaking out the lube!  :)

 

All wiring is for four subs powered by two Peavey ipr2 7500's.  My only concern is heat with both wires being next to each other while sustaining 2000 watts at short intervals..................just wondering if signal will be degraded in any way. 

 

Thanks for feedback.............. 

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post #2 of 14 Old 03-02-2014, 05:05 PM
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I would check with an electrician in your jurisdiction, they can advise you on what would be the best route to take based on the code.

Edit: this is for the speaker load... you should be fine, I would size it for the distance from the amp to the load based on the loss in the cable.

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post #3 of 14 Old 03-02-2014, 05:11 PM
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90º turns are going to be hard.  It should have been long sweeping turns going down the walls.  As for loss, you would have to have a really long run, before you would see any.  A electrician is not going to know anything about A/V, unless the company also specializes in whole house A/V & whole house controls.  You will be fine with the #12, but it will be hard if those turns are as tight as you state they are.

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post #4 of 14 Old 03-02-2014, 08:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackRyan900 View Post
 

90º turns are going to be hard.  It should have been long sweeping turns going down the walls.  As for loss, you would have to have a really long run, before you would see any.  A electrician is not going to know anything about A/V, unless the company also specializes in whole house A/V & whole house controls.  You will be fine with the #12, but it will be hard if those turns are as tight as you state they are.

 

Looking on the bright side, two of the 90's are sweeping! 

 

I'm wondering if 4 conductor would be ok.....................certainly would be better than pulling two runs of 12 AWG.

 

I believe the run will be about 50-55 ft total................I'm really worried about pulling two, figured one 4 conductor would be easiest.

 

Thanks.................

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post #5 of 14 Old 03-02-2014, 08:12 PM
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I would not be worrying about it.  You will be fine as is.  You could actually get away with #16 and still be fine at that distance.

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post #6 of 14 Old 03-09-2014, 01:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackRyan900 View Post
 

I would not be worrying about it.  You will be fine as is.  You could actually get away with #16 and still be fine at that distance.

 

 

Passing 2000 watts over 50 ft on 16 AWG?  :eek:

 

 

I've been told internal wiring in JTR S2 was 16 AWG from amp to driver which is less than 2 ft run.  That would seem ok..........but 50 ft?

 

I purchased in-wall 10 AWG but can cancel if need be.  Now I'm really sweating bullets about pulling two runs of 10 AWG which are 0.36 inches each!  Could be an attempt in futility!

 

Help....................has anyone used 12 AWG 4 conductor wire for 50+ foot run to two subs that can handle 2000 watts?  Heat, conductivity issues?  Anyone?

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post #7 of 14 Old 03-09-2014, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post


Passing 2000 watts over 50 ft on 16 AWG?  eek.gif
With a 4 ohm load insertion loss would be only 0.8dB, but current would be a bit much. It would require 12ga in that respect.
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post #8 of 14 Old 03-09-2014, 01:54 PM
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I've put 5000watts@2ohms@10hz from a clone through 60ft of 12awg into my LMS-18 and it was just fine.

All my wires are 12awg.

I've put 4000watts @ 1ohm and 4ohm through it as well.
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post #9 of 14 Old 03-09-2014, 02:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post

I've put 5000watts@2ohms@10hz from a clone through 60ft of 12awg into my LMS-18 and it was just fine.

All my wires are 12awg.

I've put 4000watts @ 1ohm and 4ohm through it as well.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post


With a 4 ohm load insertion loss would be only 0.8dB, but current would be a bit much. It would require 12ga in that respect.

 

Thanks guys!  Talk about a confidence builder!  12 AWG for my runs would work............GREAT!

 

My next question, would using 4 conductor 12 AWG make a difference between using two separate runs of 2 conductor 12 AWG?  I'm just concerned with heat build up on my longest run.  One is only 25 feet which I'm not worried about.........it's the 50+ foot run that concerns me with heat and conductivity!

 

Once again thank you both for setting my mind at ease!!!

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post #10 of 14 Old 03-09-2014, 03:42 PM
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Just for giggles, go check the breaker panel to see what size wire is feeding the circuit the amps are on.

You should be able to find a temperature rating for the cable. 90 C is common for many applications...not sure about cl3. You'll cook something (breaker, amp, drivers, ears?) long before the temperature rise in the speaker cable becomes a major problem.
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post #11 of 14 Old 03-09-2014, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post


Passing 2000 watts over 50 ft on 16 AWG?  eek.gif


I've been told internal wiring in JTR S2 was 16 AWG from amp to driver which is less than 2 ft run.  That would seem ok..........but 50 ft?

I purchased in-wall 10 AWG but can cancel if need be.  Now I'm really sweating bullets about pulling two runs of 10 AWG which are 0.36 inches each!  Could be an attempt in futility!

Help....................has anyone used 12 AWG 4 conductor wire for 50+ foot run to two subs that can handle 2000 watts?  Heat, conductivity issues?  Anyone?
But when you consider that "average" music power is around 1/8th peak power (give or take a little or a lot in some cases) the "average power would be closer to 250 watts.

The peaks do very little heating-since they are so short in time.

Just like with loudspeakers-it is the average heat that kills them-most of the time anyway-not the peaks. Unless the peaks make the voice coil jump out of the gap redface.gif

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post #12 of 14 Old 03-09-2014, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mobeer4don View Post

Just for giggles, go check the breaker panel to see what size wire is feeding the circuit the amps are on.
.
That has little bearing, as the wire size required is based on current, not watts. That is the reason why a 1kW amp for the home needs only 16 ga wire, while a 200W amp in a car might need 10 ga. If you halve the speaker impedance you double the current, and therefore need a larger gauge cable.

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post #13 of 14 Old 03-09-2014, 04:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan Beaver View Post


But when you consider that "average" music power is around 1/8th peak power (give or take a little or a lot in some cases) the "average power would be closer to 250 watts.

The peaks do very little heating-since they are so short in time.

Just like with loudspeakers-it is the average heat that kills them-most of the time anyway-not the peaks. Unless the peaks make the voice coil jump out of the gap redface.gif

 

So...........instead of running two runs of in-wall 12 AWG..........then one run of 4 conductor in-wall 12 AWG is fine.........right?  :confused:

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post #14 of 14 Old 03-14-2014, 11:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks to everyone for the help......

I've decided to use two runs of four conductor 12 AWG wire...........future proofing.
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