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Old 07-18-2014, 05:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by splotten View Post
That is not how you calculate Vrms for a sine wave. Vrms = (Vp-p/2)/sqrt2 = Vp/sqrt2. It is not Vp-p/sqrt2
I know, but in a bridged amp there's two sine waves, 180 degrees shifted. So you get 2*Vp/sqrt(2).

I was talking about peak in my earlier post.

The orange graph and teal signals are the amplified positive and negative signals, and they're just on top of each other on the scope

For bridge 4 ohm, it's like each channels 2 ohm, so you get ((64/sqrt(2))^2)/2 = 1024 watts per channel, so two channels is 2048 watts RMS. Which is the same thing as ((2*Vp/sqrt(2))^2)/4 His RMS output is different as it's probably not exactly a 4 ohm load.
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Last edited by Bassment; 07-18-2014 at 06:08 AM.
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Old 07-18-2014, 06:33 AM
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OK I see what you mean. I know how a bridged amp work, but I didn't think about the possibility that he measured each "half" separately. It makes a lot more sense now. Thanks for pointing it out.
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Old 07-19-2014, 02:35 PM
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The 10kQ outputs 105vRMS per channel at the onset of mild clipping and 116vRMS with heavy clipping, so I guess that's just slightly more than two 12kDSP's at limiters (assuming vRMS).

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Old 07-19-2014, 03:33 PM
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"OK I see what you mean. I know how a bridged amp work, but I didn't think about the possibility that he measured each "half" separately. It makes a lot more sense now. Thanks for pointing it out."


+1 rms across bridged = 0 and that is what the 6000 is doing per channel.

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Old 07-30-2014, 11:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok. Just got the amp back. Fired it up and logged in. Went to set limiters and......now I can set limiter to 165Vp. Interesting.

Also, they did re tighten the front end so its back to normal with that. They also double boxed it as my original box is not fairing so well with the several trips to Nevada and Cali.
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Denon 4311ci with Mini DSP and antimode-marantz 5 ch amp-L/R -DIYSOUND tempest towers (40" tall towers)C - DIYSOUND alchemy 8LS/RS - community D6MACHTSUB SYSTEM2-Stereo Integrity HST-18 D1 subs in dual 12 cuft ported tuned 16hzSub amp- Speakerpower SP2-12000
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Old 07-30-2014, 12:01 PM
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That is very interesting! It's as if they did something different this time.
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Old 07-30-2014, 02:07 PM - Thread Starter
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I hooked it up to a multimeter and could only get 103 volts during some sine sweeps.

Denon 4311ci with Mini DSP and antimode-marantz 5 ch amp-L/R -DIYSOUND tempest towers (40" tall towers)C - DIYSOUND alchemy 8LS/RS - community D6MACHTSUB SYSTEM2-Stereo Integrity HST-18 D1 subs in dual 12 cuft ported tuned 16hzSub amp- Speakerpower SP2-12000
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Old 07-30-2014, 09:06 PM
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Not surprising since these aren't designed for continuous high level output, so limiting is invoked.

Any way to do bursts of a second or less?

Noah
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Old 08-01-2014, 04:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
Not surprising since these aren't designed for continuous high level output, so limiting is invoked.

Any way to do bursts of a second or less?
I did various test tone bursts under a second. Slight increase of a volt or two
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Old 08-01-2014, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebuckaman View Post
I did various test tone bursts under a second. Slight increase of a volt or two
Are you measuring this with a voltmeter or something else?
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Old 08-01-2014, 06:23 PM - Thread Starter
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voltmeter
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Old 08-01-2014, 06:30 PM
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so unloaded and measured with a voltmeter, with limiter set to 165 volts, you get what just before clipping?

and you have sufficient gain to get to clipping?


just curious. :-)
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Last edited by LTD02; 08-01-2014 at 08:45 PM.
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Old 08-01-2014, 07:00 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post
Quote:Originally Posted by Scott Simonian

Oh sweet, thanks!


crap vid but you get the idea
Sounds like, I don't know; 'not so good / promising, maybe'... Just pointing out the obvious.
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Old 08-01-2014, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebuckaman View Post
voltmeter
voltmeter measures rms voltage, but the limiter lists peak. If you're measuring 101 volts with a meter, peak voltage is higher, divide by .707
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Old 08-01-2014, 09:31 PM
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"I hooked it up to a multimeter and could only get 103 volts during some sine sweeps."


if the amp is bridged per channel, then 103 volts is +103 on one leg and -103 on the other leg. so the total swing is 206 volts, no?
206 volts rms is 206^2/4 = 5300 watts per channel into 4 ohms. the amp is spec'd for 3400 watts into 4 ohms, so the limitation would seem to be on the current side, not the voltage side.

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Old 08-01-2014, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
"I hooked it up to a multimeter and could only get 103 volts during some sine sweeps."


if the amp is bridged per channel, then 103 volts is +103 on one leg and -103 on the other leg. so the total swing is 206 volts, no?
206 volts rms is 206^2/4 = 5300 watts per channel into 4 ohms. the amp is spec'd for 3400 watts into 4 ohms, so the limitation would seem to be on the current side, not the voltage side.
that was bridged? damn thought it was one channel.
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Old 08-02-2014, 01:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
"I hooked it up to a multimeter and could only get 103 volts during some sine sweeps."


if the amp is bridged per channel, then 103 volts is +103 on one leg and -103 on the other leg. so the total swing is 206 volts, no?
206 volts rms is 206^2/4 = 5300 watts per channel into 4 ohms. the amp is spec'd for 3400 watts into 4 ohms, so the limitation would seem to be on the current side, not the voltage side.
You are over complicating it. If 103Vrms was measured at the terminals then that is what the woofer "sees". That is ~2650W measured (assuming a 4ohm load). The limiter can now go to 165Vp = 116.7Vrms. That equates to 3400W into a 4Ohm load. Looks like the 12000 cant swing that much voltage into a 4 ohm load if testing with sine tones or sweeps, but it might do it into a 8 ohm load.
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Old 08-02-2014, 01:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post
that was bridged? damn thought it was one channel.
I'm sure it was one channel. LTD is referring to the way some of these amps are constructed internally. They are essentially 4 amp channels bridged two and two into a 2 channel amplifier.
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Old 08-02-2014, 10:05 AM
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ok, i thought each leg was being measured relative to ground.


"Power rails measure at +/-84V"

http://forum.speakerplans.com/behrin...opic69202.html


so across the terminals would be a theoretical 168 volt difference. with the limiter at 165 volts peak, that as you show, would give a theoretical 3402 watts into a 4 ohm load per channel and that is right on their spec. for how long it can hold that voltage under varying conditions, how relevant that is to various users, and how that compares to other amps are of course the big questions.

http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/NU12000DSP.aspx


not, each side of the amp is itself already bridged (this means the channels can't be bridged further), which may be why there was some confusion in how to measure the amp and calculate its power.

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Last edited by LTD02; 08-02-2014 at 10:09 AM.
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Old 09-06-2014, 08:57 PM
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My gut feeling still tells me the performance of the non-dsp Inuke 12000 will be much better than this. Anyone have plans to pick up a non-dsp Inuke 12000? I want to get one but Im waiting for AmericanMusicalSupply to get them in stock.
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Old 09-07-2014, 12:43 AM
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is the second picture 'twice the amp' as the first picture?


btw, the caps are 2200 x ? and 3300 x ? (from another picture). the 6000 employs 4x 2200x220v 4x3300x100v, so probably the same caps, but also 8x1000x100v that disappeared from the 12000?





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Old 09-26-2014, 03:05 PM
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These result are not that bad in my opinion.
Or did you guys really expect it could deliver 12000W for 1 hour
The current limiter just has to kick in.

How does it perform on a music signal ?
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Old 09-26-2014, 03:15 PM
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I was hoping for ~4-5kw burst output. Something along the line of double the iNuke6000. Reasonable expectation, imo.

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Old 09-26-2014, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subbass View Post
These result are not that bad in my opinion.
Or did you guys really expect it could deliver 12000W for 1 hour
The current limiter just has to kick in.

How does it perform on a music signal ?
In another thread, he compared the inuk12k to the ipr2 7500 and the 7500 was more powerful...

Nothing 12k about this thing.
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Old 09-26-2014, 05:41 PM
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I personally expected the amp to perform on par with the other inuke offerings. 3000=2000wrms, 6000=4000wrms etc... I expected the 12000 model to deliver 8000wrms.

As it stands now, and please someone correct me if I'm wrong, it makes more sense financially to just use two inuke6k's instead of the 12000. Unless someone absolutely only has room for one amp I suppose.
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Old 09-26-2014, 06:54 PM
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The 12k is 2-ohm stable, the 6k isn't.

How many volts does a ipr2 7500 output?
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Old 09-26-2014, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bassthathz View Post
the 12k is 2-ohm stable, the 6k isn't.

How many volts does a ipr2 7500 output?
124?
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Old 09-26-2014, 09:34 PM
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In order to meet it's spec of 1250 @ 8, the 7500 it only needs 100vRMS.

sqrt(1250w * 8ohm) = 100v
sqrt(2022w * 4ohm) = 90v
sqrt(3750w * 2ohm) = 87v
Assuming the power supply could provide the amperes needed.

For the 12k:
sqrt(1700w * 8ohm) = 117v
sqrt(3400w * 4ohm) = 117v
sqrt(6000w * 2ohm) = 110v

So the 12k needs to reach 117v, otherwise it ain't to spec.


The Crown iTech 8000:
sqrt(2100w * 8ohm) = 130v
sqrt(4000w * 4ohm) = 127v
sqrt(3500w * 2ohm) = 87v

What I actually measured from it was 148v, so it has enough voltage to exceed it's spec. It was independently tested as being able to do somewhere around 9-10kW.
If the iTech 8000 had a slightly better SMPS with a less aggressive limiter it would actually beat the PowerSoft K10; and for the first 2 seconds at dual 4-ohms it actually does beat it as-is by 2000watts total.
As far as bursting goes the iTech 8000 is a monster, and for bridging into a 4ohm load the K10 is a monster (12-15kW for 1 second).



At 8-ohms for the first 80seconds the iTech beats the K10 by about 800watts total.

On Average both of them can do about ~5-6kW for about ~1minute, give or take. Which is a lot of power for a coil to heat up with.
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Old 09-26-2014, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeamdman View Post
124?
The max output voltage on the IPR2 7500 is highly load and frequency dependent. The prolite 7.5 which is similar, but not a lesser amp, says 124V max in the spec sheet. However It also says:

"Rated Watts 2ch x 2 ohms 4800 watts 20ms repetitive burst / 3790 watts 1% THD both channels driven @ 1kHz."

3790W into 2 ohm is 87V. Note that it takes 50ms to complete one cycle at 20 Hz. Therefore the 4800w, 20ms burst rating is of no value (IMO).

"20Hz - 20kHz, 2ch x 2 ohms, <0.5%, @ 3390 watts 20Hz to 4kHz, decreasing to 3100 watts @ 20kHz, both channels driven."

3390W into to 2 ohm is 82.3V. IMO this is the value that is relevant regarding 2 ohm subs.

http://www.peaveycommercialaudio.com...es/ProLITE-7.5

Last edited by splotten; 09-27-2014 at 11:42 PM.
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Old 09-26-2014, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
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Therefore the 4800w, 20ms burst rating is of no value (IMO).
Well... it has value if: you are driving a kickbin, midrange or tweeter array 50hz-20kHz and need a high burst of power. A drum snap with cymbal at a concert. So not totally useless.
A quick 50-120hz thump in a HT action movie perhaps.

Last edited by BassThatHz; 09-26-2014 at 10:04 PM.
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