Stereo Integrity HT-18-D4... Infinite Baffle...How Much "Safe" Power Per Driver ? - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 80 Old 03-11-2014, 04:00 PM
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Tinnears, where do you live? Perhaps there is someone close to you where you could audition the amp before spending your hard earned money on it.
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post #32 of 80 Old 03-11-2014, 04:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Trick question.

The iNuke 6000 can not be bridged. wink.gif

So the obvious choice would be three 3000's. biggrin.gif

Wait. What? You have four d4 18's don't you? That's simple. Just a single 3000 or 6000 would be more than adequate for the job.

Woops... that;s right.smile.gif

Yes, I have four SI HT D4 18's... but I also have a third pair of subs with similar T-S parameters... an old pair of Ascendant Audio AV-18-D4.
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post #33 of 80 Old 03-11-2014, 04:09 PM - Thread Starter
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*screeching tires*

Noooooo... I did not.

Hmm.. Similar T/S?

Tinn.... what are these other drivers?

The password to my credit card is Sound Splinter RLp18. biggrin.gif

An old pair of Ascendant Audio AV-18-D4. smile.gif
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post #34 of 80 Old 03-11-2014, 04:10 PM
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Ah. Nice subs!

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post #35 of 80 Old 03-11-2014, 04:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Tinnears, where do you live? Perhaps there is someone close to you where you could audition the amp before spending your hard earned money on it.

I live in south Texas about 20 miles SE of San Antonio so quite a long way from the rich folk in N or NE SATX. I doubt anyone here in Floresville can help. wink.gif
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post #36 of 80 Old 03-11-2014, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
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*screeching tires*

Noooooo... I did not.

Sorry, didn't mean to give you whiplash there.
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post #37 of 80 Old 03-12-2014, 08:31 AM - Thread Starter
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I keep going back to the NU3000DSP specs. Is that little amp truly capable of supplying enough clean power to drive all six of my subs to beyond Xmech? If so then is there any advantage to using three amps instead of the single?
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post #38 of 80 Old 03-12-2014, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinnEars View Post

I keep going back to the NU3000DSP specs. Is that little amp truly capable of supplying enough clean power to drive all six of my subs to beyond Xmech? If so then is there any advantage to using three amps instead of the single?

Yes, it is. You have to remember that an infinite baffle has no air spring behind the woofers so it takes relatively little power to move the cones. Not only will it push them to max excursion, you will need to use the dsp to limit the voltage so you do not exceed the driver limits.
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post #39 of 80 Old 03-12-2014, 09:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes, it is. You have to remember that an infinite baffle has no air spring behind the woofers so it takes relatively little power to move the cones. Not only will it push them to max excursion, you will need to use the dsp to limit the voltage so you do not exceed the driver limits.

That's nothing short of amazing. I'll be powering these for far cheaper than I expected... a measly $279 delivered. I couldn't be happier!! biggrin.gif
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post #40 of 80 Old 03-12-2014, 09:17 AM
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Awesome. smile.gif

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post #41 of 80 Old 03-12-2014, 10:26 AM - Thread Starter
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One last question. I prefer to give my amps easy loads. A NU6000DSP only costs $120 more than the NU3000DSP. The 3000 will see 4 and 2 ohm loads while the 6000 will see 16 and 8 ohm loads. Since the latter is essentially two 3000's bridged the loads seen by the 6000 are actually 8 and 4 ohms. Other than being easier on the amp is there any other advantage to the higher impedance loads... sound quality, dynamic headroom, distortion, etc?
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post #42 of 80 Old 03-12-2014, 10:56 AM
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Honestly... you're over thinking it. wink.gif

Get the 6000 over a 3000 simply because you want/need more power.

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post #43 of 80 Old 03-12-2014, 11:02 AM - Thread Starter
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I do tend to overcomplicate things a bit.smile.gif In this install the 3000 will make as much power as the 6000 due to minimum load impedances and basic level matching. The 3000 will drive one pair at 4 ohms and two pairs at 2 ohms. The 6000 will drive one pair at 16 ohms and two pair at 8 ohms. I just SWAG-ed power output (to each driver) at about 200w regardless of which amp. Is that about right?
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post #44 of 80 Old 03-12-2014, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinnEars View Post

One last question. I prefer to give my amps easy loads. A NU6000DSP only costs $120 more than the NU3000DSP. The 3000 will see 4 and 2 ohm loads while the 6000 will see 16 and 8 ohm loads. Since the latter is essentially two 3000's bridged the loads seen by the 6000 are actually 8 and 4 ohms. Other than being easier on the amp is there any other advantage to the higher impedance loads... sound quality, dynamic headroom, distortion, etc?

If the 8 ohm load is for the 4 drivers and the 16 ohm for the 2, then you should have plenty of power. Behringer does not publish specs for the NU6000 into 16 ohms, but it has been measured at 1100 watts per channel into 8 ohms and is most likely over 500 watts per channel into 16. That gives you the power to exceed the driver capabilities. I am not sure if there is any real advantage in doing it this way, but you are not alone in wanting to avoid 2 ohm loads.
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post #45 of 80 Old 03-12-2014, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinnEars View Post

I do tend to overcomplicate things a bit.smile.gif In this install the 3000 will make as much power as the 6000 due to minimum load impedances and basic level matching. The 3000 will drive one pair at 4 ohms and two pairs at 2 ohms. The 6000 will drive one pair at 16 ohms and two pair at 8 ohms. I just SWAG-ed power output (to each driver) at about 200w regardless of which amp. Is that about right?

Probably closer to 250-300 per driver either way. Sounds like you've got it about right.
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post #46 of 80 Old 03-12-2014, 12:13 PM - Thread Starter
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So the extra $120 is a worthwhile investment to opt for the 6000 vs. the 3000... at least it offers a safer/kinder load for the amp. OKAY... decision made!!smile.gif
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post #47 of 80 Old 03-12-2014, 01:38 PM - Thread Starter
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NU6000DSP ordered via Parts Express. I may soon post questions about projectors and screens... taking baby steps.wink.gif
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post #48 of 80 Old 03-12-2014, 01:58 PM
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I'm using the NU3000DSP to power my mains and it's awesome! Should be plenty good for Sub duty.
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post #49 of 80 Old 03-17-2014, 12:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Can this amp run off of 220v ? I can't tell from the literature but it looks like the USA version is 120v only. I'd much prefer a dedicated 220v 20a line but a dedicated 120v 30a line will do.
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post #50 of 80 Old 03-17-2014, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
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Can this amp run off of 220v ? I can't tell from the literature but it looks like the USA version is 120v only. I'd much prefer a dedicated 220v 20a line but a dedicated 120v 30a line will do.

Not sure how everyone's powering these, but I'd suspect a dedicated 120v/20a circuit would do the trick, ... especially for IB applications.

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post #51 of 80 Old 03-17-2014, 02:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh, I know it will. I just prefer overkill and power supply is the root of all underkill. smile.gif
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post #52 of 80 Old 03-17-2014, 02:49 PM
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NU6000DSP ordered via Parts Express. I may soon post questions about projectors and screens... taking baby steps.wink.gif

Nice! A good pj/screen combo really is what makes for that cinema experience, imo.

Many here build their own screens. I built my first screen a few years ago that is 100" 16:9 and acoustic transparent. Now it's time for a bigger one. biggrin.gif

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post #53 of 80 Old 03-17-2014, 02:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Nice! A good pj/screen combo really is what makes for that cinema experience, imo.

Many here build their own screens. I built my first screen a few years ago that is 100" 16:9 and acoustic transparent. Now it's time for a bigger one. biggrin.gif

Oh yeah!! I asked for links to DIY screens but failed to see the whole forum dedicated to that. GREAT!!smile.gif
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post #54 of 80 Old 03-18-2014, 11:26 AM
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Oh, I know it will. I just prefer overkill and power supply is the root of all underkill. smile.gif

I hear you, I'm all for headroom ... top to bottom.

Merely pointing out you may try it first with a normal 20 amp circuit. A couple days ago, I shared some information about residential circuits, etc, that seems to come up quite frequently. I always try to point out that due to the transient nature of music and special effects, that the branch circuit wiring size, 14awg/12awg/10awg, is often more of an impediment than the breaker.

Massive current amounts are allowed prior to a breaker tripping and interrupting the circuit. These amplifiers are quite efficient, and so is an IB aligned sub system.


Here's a section of that information in a recent post;

"The main breaker, and the branch circuit breaker, ... and these can both pass extraordinary amounts of current higher than their rated amount. By design, to prevent nuisance tripping with motor loads (which pull huge amounts upon start up), typical residential breakers can pass 7-8 times the rated trip amount, .. for up to a second or more. Also, it can allow up to 3x the rated amount for up to 10sec or so, and up to 1.5-2times the rated amount for a period extending as long as 30 seconds.

So even the smaller branch circuit rated at 20 amps, it can allow;
~140-160amps for up to 1 sec
~60amps for about 10secs
~30-40amps for as long as 30secs

Again, that is a huge amount of current."


The entire post can be found here.


You may try the drivers in open air, with the entire signal path in place, and carefully check how much amp the drivers will take, ... this way you can carefully explore max excursion without being subject to full SPLs, since the drivers are in free air. Also, you will explore current draw of the sub system too.

Since IBs use amp power so differently than small sealed subs do, free air testing is really a worthwhile way to safely and carefully explore all the limits at the system extremes ... but without the structural shaking and high SPL craziness that accompanies typical limits testing.

Good luck
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post #55 of 80 Old 03-18-2014, 03:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Yep!! I was thinking of running 10 AWG. The run should be less than 20 feet. The structure isn't quite finished so this will be easy. I already have spare 30 amp breakers so... I might as well.smile.gif

I'll test the amp and woofers free air as you suggest. The amp arrived today... outer box half squashed as are too many packages delivered via UPS. The amp box and amp seem fine though.
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post #56 of 80 Old 03-18-2014, 03:52 PM
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Yep!! I was thinking of running 10 AWG. The run should be less than 20 feet. The structure isn't quite finished so this will be easy. I already have spare 30 amp breakers so... I might as well.smile.gif

I'll test the amp and woofers free air as you suggest. The amp arrived today... outer box half squashed as are too many packages delivered via UPS. The amp box and amp seem fine though.

Not sure about your local code, but typically it's a violation to place a receptacle circuit on a 30a breaker. I believe you could do it if you installed a 120v/30a specialty outlet, with a matching male cord cap on the amplifier. That way only that amp could use that receptacle.

The principle is the breaker protects the wire, independent of what you plug in, ... so the 30a, 10awg is cool. But I believe it's a code violation to use any general purpose receptacles on 30a breakers, regardless of wire size.

Your local code may be different and/or I may be mistaken.

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Yep, fuse protects the wire and transistors protect the fuse. smile.gif
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post #58 of 80 Old 03-18-2014, 07:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Not sure about your local code, but typically it's a violation to place a receptacle circuit on a 30a breaker. I believe you could do it if you installed a 120v/30a specialty outlet, with a matching male cord cap on the amplifier. That way only that amp could use that receptacle.

The principle is the breaker protects the wire, independent of what you plug in, ... so the 30a, 10awg is cool. But I believe it's a code violation to use any general purpose receptacles on 30a breakers, regardless of wire size.

Your local code may be different and/or I may be mistaken.

You're right and it would be foolish to install a substandard wall socket... or rather sockets that can't safely handle the current the breakers and lines can provide. I have 30 amp industrial grade sockets. I don't think it's an issue with the amplifier cord though. BTW, my GFCI sockets near water sources are also 30 amp... and those are hard to find at a decent price.
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post #59 of 80 Old 03-19-2014, 01:55 PM - Thread Starter
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If you're wondering why I installed 30 amp plugs everywhere it's because I don't like weak links. For instance, I like oil-filled space heaters for their efficiency but they can draw 18 amps at 110 volts and I'm uncomfortable being that close to max load on any circuit. I don't use hair dryers but if anyone does use one they can also draw up to 18 amps. Lastly, I prefer to use portable induction cook tops and portable roaster ovens vs. full-sized ranges so those sockets/circuits must supply safe 18 amp power. To me... that's really 30 amp capable from breaker to socket.
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post #60 of 80 Old 03-19-2014, 02:59 PM
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