Alternatives to dual sealed Dayton Ultimax 18's? - Page 9 - AVS Forum
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post #241 of 270 Old 03-26-2014, 02:12 PM - Thread Starter
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If I had the means to hide them I certainly would. They however will be going in the front corners of the room with the TV centered between them. There are zero other options as far as locating them. That said, with both of them in plain view strait ahead at all times I need to limit their size to some degree so that they don't simply create an overpowering eye-sore in the room. Not so much for me, but for everyone else.
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post #242 of 270 Old 03-26-2014, 09:40 PM - Thread Starter
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LTD if you or someone has the time can you throw together a model comparing the PB12-Plus/2 I have to 4 sealed 3ft3 UM-15's?

I'd like to see how they stand up next to each other both in the 20-30hz range and of course in the sub 20hz content that I'm after.

Also how much help is the DSP on the inuke6000? It would be my first time using it.
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post #243 of 270 Old 03-27-2014, 04:00 AM
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If you feel that the 4cuft sized enclosures are such a great fit for your room, why not just go with the two ported 5cuft Martycube's tuned to 20hz with either the Dayton HO18 or the SI 18HT as that is only a very small amount bigger than 4cuft?

That would provide the best of both worlds as it would be a smaller enclosure similar in size to the 4cuft, and have the higher output to put the smack down on your SVS!
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post #244 of 270 Old 03-27-2014, 06:40 AM - Thread Starter
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That's not a bad suggestion. The only thing that I'm a little uneasy about is the 20hz tune; I've always only considered ported enclosures with a 16-18hz tune. Does the driver play a role in the tune in a martycube, such as the SI18 vs the HO18 vs the UM18?

I'd really like to see the following 3 lines plotted if someone has time, in a 17'x18' room, approx 2400 cubic feet:

SVS PB12-Plus/2 (approx 425 watts per driver)
4 UM-15's, all in 3ft3 sealed enclosures with max power available to each driver
2 18's (I'm open to the SI, HO, UM) in ported martycubes with max power available to each driver
(I'm assuming the iNuke6000dsp would give max power to all drivers in both cases)

Seeing those 3 line plots together might really help me out.
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post #245 of 270 Old 03-27-2014, 05:13 PM - Thread Starter
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I made a cardboard box today to mimic the size of a 6ft3 enclosure and put it in the corner of my living room. Going to leave it there for a few days and see how I and others feel about it. I made it 19.25"Wx20"Dx38.5"H which would be the size of two 3ft3 diysound flat packs stacked on top of each other, each with a 15" driver in it. That's one of my options above. The martycube while wider and deeper is significantly shorter (over a foot) and takes up slightly less volume. I figure if I can live with the 6ft3 cardboard box I made up, I could live with the martycube. Either option I am still open to I think...
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post #246 of 270 Old 03-27-2014, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrutalBodyShots View Post


4 UM-15's, all in 3ft3 sealed enclosures with max power available to each driver

Dayton recommends ~4ft.3 sealed for the UM15-22
Optimum Cabinet Size *
Sealed Volume3.98 ft.³


I can confirm that 2 of these are great with iNuke3000DSP @4 ohms (~800 Watts). 4 would be awesome. smile.gif

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post #247 of 270 Old 03-27-2014, 07:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by schmidtwi View Post

Dayton recommends ~4ft.3 sealed for the UM15-22
Optimum Cabinet Size *
Sealed Volume3.98 ft.³


I can confirm that 2 of these are great with iNuke3000DSP @4 ohms (~800 Watts). 4 would be awesome. smile.gif

Interesting - there are conflicting recommended volumes. I see where it says 3.98 ft3, but if you look a few lines up from that it says suggested sealed cabinet size is 3.1 ft3. Since the flat pack that's designed specifically for that driver is 3 ft3 I'd guess that the 3.98 number is incorrect. Maybe 3.98 is if no box stuffing is used? I dunno.

I'm sure that 4 of these would be awesome to most... I just need to know if they'd be awesome compared to my current SVS sub smile.gif
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post #248 of 270 Old 03-27-2014, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrutalBodyShots View Post

Interesting - there are conflicting recommended volumes. I see where it says 3.98 ft3, but if you look a few lines up from that it says suggested sealed cabinet size is 3.1 ft3. Since the flat pack that's designed specifically for that driver is 3 ft3 I'd guess that the 3.98 number is incorrect. Maybe 3.98 is if no box stuffing is used? I dunno.

I'm sure that 4 of these would be awesome to most... I just need to know if they'd be awesome compared to my current SVS sub smile.gif


There aren't conflicting recommended volumes:

"Recommended" cabinet is:
• Sealed 3.1 cubic ft. (net internal) with 3 lbs. of Acousta-Stuf polyfill, f3 of 35 Hz with a 0.707 Qtc alignment".

"Optimum" cabinet size is
Sealed Volume3.98 ft.³
Sealed F3 33 Hz

In other words, they recommend you buy the 3 cu.ft. kit and Acousta-Stuf polyfill, but the optimum size is 3.98 cu.ft. wink.gif

Four of either of these will sound awesome compared to 1 SVS.

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post #249 of 270 Old 03-27-2014, 07:29 PM - Thread Starter
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It doesn't really make sense to me that they don't "recommend" the "optimum" cabinet size... lol.
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post #250 of 270 Old 03-27-2014, 07:37 PM
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It doesn't really make sense to me that they don't "recommend" the "optimum" cabinet size... lol.
It does when they think that recommending the optimum size will cause a loss of sales because they're perceived as too big.

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post #251 of 270 Old 03-27-2014, 08:29 PM - Thread Starter
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I suppose so.
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post #252 of 270 Old 03-28-2014, 05:24 AM
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I suppose so.
Few commercial subs are optimally sized, for the same reason. Most are only as large as what the manufacturer feels that they can get away with. As only a very small percentage of consumers have the slightest clue as to the ramifications of Hoffman's Iron Law an equally small percentage know what really good bass is. There are probably ten thousand little ten inch loaded fart machines sold for every one Seaton Submersive or the like.
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post #253 of 270 Old 03-28-2014, 06:20 AM
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^^+1 You would know this to be so after slightly learning some of the aspects of winisd and seeing to some extent what affects the size of the enclosure has on the driver, power and response. All designs/alignments have their compromises in one form or another..

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post #254 of 270 Old 03-28-2014, 07:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Few commercial subs are optimally sized, for the same reason. Most are only as large as what the manufacturer feels that they can get away with. As only a very small percentage of consumers have the slightest clue as to the ramifications of Hoffman's Iron Law an equally small percentage know what really good bass is. There are probably ten thousand little ten inch loaded fart machines sold for every one Seaton Submersive or the like.

Understood 100% for commercial subs and I agree with everything you said. However, the DIY market certainly knows more than the commercial market and I would think most would want to put a sub in the optimal size enclosure.
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post #255 of 270 Old 03-28-2014, 08:20 AM
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Understood 100% for commercial subs and I agree with everything you said. However, the DIY market certainly knows more than the commercial market and I would think most would want to put a sub in the optimal size enclosure.

Some manufactures know absolutely what they’re doing along with some coming from DIY.. Some do better than others and have different business models of course, but in the end they have to ship the product and the product has to appeal. What some of them do within the size constraints is quite respectful. The power, limiters and dsp is all tricked out along with developing their own drivers over a period of time with testing for the most optimal performance they can achieve or hang in there with at the time. A 20” cube is half the volume as a 24” cube for example. A couple inches can make a big difference in how one goes about things.

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post #256 of 270 Old 03-29-2014, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
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However, the DIY market certainly knows more than the commercial market and I would think most would want to put a sub in the optimal size enclosure.

The DIY market is all about options, maximizing the value / cost ratio, and the satisfaction of "Doing It Yourself".

If you think the DIY market "knows more than the commercial market", then you will put a sub in the "optimal size enclosure" - which, as Dayton recommends for the UM15-22, is "Sealed Volume 3.98 ft.³" biggrin.gif

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post #257 of 270 Old 03-29-2014, 07:59 AM
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The DIY market is all about options, maximizing the value / cost ratio, and the satisfaction of "Doing It Yourself".

You forgot to add patience to the equation.........a DIY should have patience as in waiting as long as six months for specific parts, amps, or drivers.

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post #258 of 270 Old 03-29-2014, 09:32 AM - Thread Starter
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You forgot to add patience to the equation.........a DIY should have patience as in waiting as long as six months for specific parts, amps, or drivers.

There's certainly some truth to that. I thought I had my hands on a pair of UXL's at the group buy price but evidently someone got them before me yesterday. So now I'm back to considering lower priced drivers since the UM-18 is still a ways away.

I think the only thing I have decided on however is going with Martycubes (or something similar) meaning ported over my original sealed plan from the DIYsound flat packs. If I go with 2 ported enclosures I think I'd be more than happy with the results compared to my current SVS sub.
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post #259 of 270 Old 03-29-2014, 09:53 AM
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Understood 100% for commercial subs and I agree with everything you said. However, the DIY market certainly knows more than the commercial market and I would think most would want to put a sub in the optimal size enclosure.

Maybe the DIY market who uses forums does but MAJORITY of people do not use forums. So there are tons of people who have no clue what they're doing.
Even if they do know the "optimum" they simply wouldn't purchase it then. They'd step down then to a smaller/cheaper sub and a enclosure. It makes more sense for Dayton to say "This sub works in a 3ft enclosure but is optimum in a 4ft."
That way, they can still get those people who want the UM15 but only want a 3ft enclosure. Otherwise, people would just take another sub brand who says it'll work in that 3ft enclosure.
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post #260 of 270 Old 03-29-2014, 09:56 AM
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Maybe the DIY market who uses forums does but MAJORITY of people do not use forums. So there are tons of people who have no clue what they're doing.
Even if they do know the "optimum" they simply wouldn't purchase it then. They'd step down then to a smaller/cheaper sub and a enclosure. It makes more sense for Dayton to say "This sub works in a 3ft enclosure but is optimum in a 4ft."
That way, they can still get those people who want the UM15 but only want a 3ft enclosure. Otherwise, people would just take another sub brand who says it'll work in that 3ft enclosure.

For home theater I wouldn't agree that the majority of DIY don't use forums. By use I mean look at forums, not necessarily post.
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post #261 of 270 Old 03-29-2014, 10:07 AM - Thread Starter
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For home theater I wouldn't agree that the majority of DIY don't use forums. By use I mean look at forums, not necessarily post.

Agreed. If people are willing to take the time to buy parts and build rather than buy commercial, they're at least going to be browsing forums and educating themselves to some degree. I doubt many that are willing to invest the time for HT are just winging it, generally speaking.
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post #262 of 270 Old 04-06-2014, 08:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Is anyone familiar with the SP4 driver?

http://store.ficaraudio.com/sp418/

I did a few forum searches on here and there isn't a lot of information on them. At $494 per driver they seem to offer a nice price point between all of the common players (SI 18, Dayton HO, etc) while coming in over $100 under the price of the UXL-18.

It doesn't seem like on this forum they get talked about much however, probably because they are geared more toward car audio? Anyone have experience with this driver and what type of feedback can you give?
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post #263 of 270 Old 04-06-2014, 09:04 AM
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Uxl18 is 470us so not more expensive
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post #264 of 270 Old 04-06-2014, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by BrutalBodyShots View Post

Is anyone familiar with the SP4 driver?

http://store.ficaraudio.com/sp418/

I did a few forum searches on here and there isn't a lot of information on them. At $494 per driver they seem to offer a nice price point between all of the common players (SI 18, Dayton HO, etc) while coming in over $100 under the price of the UXL-18.

It doesn't seem like on this forum they get talked about much however, probably because they are geared more toward car audio? Anyone have experience with this driver and what type of feedback can you give?

That driver is $494 plus shipping, and at 70lbs shipping will most likely cost you at least $50. So that brings you up to $550.

The UXL-18 is $530 Canadian funds including shipping, so right there its cheaper. Plus like chalugadp mention its cheaper once you factor in the US to Canadian dollar exchange rate. I would guess that you'd probably get to buy at around 7 cents on the dollar so it would only cost you roughly $495us shipped. So still a cheaper option then the Fi driver. smile.gif
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post #265 of 270 Old 04-06-2014, 11:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Good call, I didn't realize shipping wasn't included. Mark quoted my ~$510 shipped on the UXL-18 the other day with the current exchange rate.

Does anyone have any experience with the SP4 driver though? Anyone do any comparisons to the UXL since they are more or less in the same price range?
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post #266 of 270 Old 04-06-2014, 12:21 PM
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Good call, I didn't realize shipping wasn't included. Mark quoted my ~$510 shipped on the UXL-18 the other day with the current exchange rate.

Does anyone have any experience with the SP4 driver though? Anyone do any comparisons to the UXL since they are more or less in the same price range?

I think your best bet would be to go into the JTR Captivator threads and ask if anyone has compared any of the Cap drivers against the UXL-18. Jeff from JTR uses drivers made by Fi as far as I know, and I think that's about as close of a comparison as you're going to get.

I'm sure they'd work, but from all that I've read typically car audio sub drivers seem to have a stiffer spider. So the HT versions move a little more freely, of course this is just a theory that I have so I could be wrong.
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post #267 of 270 Old 04-06-2014, 12:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Got ya. Yeah using a car audio subwoofer in HT doesn't really seem all too common. I was considering four Alpine 15's a few weeks ago that someone back in about page 3 of this thread recommended and I read dozens of reviews on the subs and while all of the reviews were positive, not a single one was on the sub used in a HT application. For this reason alone I went in a different direction. Perhaps the same can be said of the SP4; it's probably just uncommon in the HT department.
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post #268 of 270 Old 04-08-2014, 04:30 PM - Thread Starter
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* * * Ultimax 18" Driver Release Date Delayed AGAIN * * *

Just wanted to let everyone know that the UM-18 release date has been pushed out another 3 weeks from 5/22 to 6/12. I'm officially pulling the plug on the waiting game for this driver. In the past 3 weeks the date has gone from 4/30 to 5/22 to 6/12.

When was the original release date of this driver supposed to be? Based on the recent delays and reading on here it seems like back in Dec/Jan people were talking about it being available any day. Had it really been delayed half a year now?
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post #269 of 270 Old 04-08-2014, 04:54 PM
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* * * Ultimax 18" Driver Release Date Delayed AGAIN * * *

Just wanted to let everyone know that the UM-18 release date has been pushed out another 3 weeks from 5/22 to 6/12. I'm officially pulling the plug on the waiting game for this driver. In the past 3 weeks the date has gone from 4/30 to 5/22 to 6/12.

When was the original release date of this driver supposed to be? Based on the recent delays and reading on here it seems like back in Dec/Jan people were talking about it being available any day. Had it really been delayed half a year now?

Time for two UXL-18's and some Marty cubes, or Erich's new ported cabinets?
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post #270 of 270 Old 04-08-2014, 05:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Time for two UXL-18's and some Marty cubes, or Erich's new ported cabinets?

Trying to twist Erich's arm into adding some volume to one of his new designs, perhaps an offering where the depth is 21" instead of only 15" or increasing the other two dimensions a couple of inches would be fine as well. If he does come up with a slightly larger one, I will purchase 2 from him without question.

If not, I'll be building my own two enclosures with around 7-8 ft3 of internal volume available per driver.
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