Beast's First Ever "Ballin' Out" NC g2g April 5th!!!! - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 724 Old 04-09-2014, 04:04 PM
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any comparisons on the subjective sound quality differences between the XXX and the LMS 5400? Or did that get tested? Not that I would expect any major differences until higher/max output levels - but just curious if tested.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #452 of 724 Old 04-09-2014, 05:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Nope, didn't have a good sealed box for the RE's as they were in the Shadow and we pulled that one for pics.

From what I heard from the Ultra's and audio memory from my RE's back when they were in sealed boxes up front, I feel like the ultra's were cleaner further up than the RE's. That is to be expected I guess, but I would also guess the RE's had much more grunt on the bottom end with their additional excursion capabilities. I know with a pair on an LG14k, They still wanted more if I crossed higher than 60-80hz. 100hz wasn't out of the question but it was stretching it. The Ultras on the other hand I felt like could easily do 100 or up to 120hz without issues.

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

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post #453 of 724 Old 04-09-2014, 06:53 PM
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I've been running my LMS at 120 Hz but will play around with the crossover point more once I add the UXL-18 to the mix. Today will be a big weekend as I plan to build a box for my first UXL-18 and finish the built-in at the front of the room. Can't wait for Sat or Sun movie night at the Gage house. We'll be rockin'.
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post #454 of 724 Old 04-09-2014, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

I'll let Brandon clarify, but he has the four d/o enclosures set at the 1/4 points height and wide...the response is undeniable!

I agree. Brandon's 8x 18's are very impressive. Efforless capability of keeping up with his mains across the entire bandwidth.

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Hey, no worries. I'm only "slightly" (read: extremely) jealous. tongue.gif

It isn't typical for those of us to want to fly 3,000 miles for such a thing but I totally am! Hell I'd even drive.... if I had enough free time a much more fun and comfortable car. Wonder if I could borrow my dad's Jaguar XJL Supercharged? biggrin.gif

If you drive that car over this way I demand a ride in it. I would have said "I request a ride" but I wouldn't let you leave until I got a ride in it.

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Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post

Joy of Minimal:


Opus Dei:


Bass I Love You:


BoomChek:


My Woofer-Popper track: (24db crest factor)


My THX Calibration track:


My DC (system blower) track: eek.gif



Boom Boom

Ok, I'm downloading all of those tracks. Thanks for posting them!

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Nope, not on a riser but my living room is over a basement so I'm not on a slab and hoping I get some good tactile transfer. smile.gif

Did you get my email about the web page? I'm still interested. smile.gif
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post #455 of 724 Old 04-09-2014, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Yeah, seatbelt worked pretty well actually.

That said, being the only piece of gear that I own that doesn't have it's original shipping box bugs the hell out of the OCD in me. It would have been funny seeing Nick trying to cram the 24 in his Jetta while in it's box though.

Nick, what are the dimensions of the individual shipping boxes for te 24's?

28x28x19 (inches). Weight is 97 lbs.
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post #456 of 724 Old 04-09-2014, 07:23 PM
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lol the shipping box is bigger then the 4CUFT boxes for my 18"s


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post #457 of 724 Old 04-09-2014, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Electrodynamic View Post

Did you get my email about the web page? I'm still interested. smile.gif

Nick,

I did indeed and have it on my list to contact you but I don't really work on that list until I get home on Friday. This week has been pretty crazy from a travel and work perspective. I didn't get in to NYC until 2am Monday and had to meet with a new client first thing Tuesday morning.

Why don't you go ahead and send me a few of the web pages you mentioned you like? Then I'll see what I can come up with and we can go from there.

David
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post #458 of 724 Old 04-09-2014, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by dgage View Post

Nick,

I did indeed and have it on my list to contact you but I don't really work on that list until I get home on Friday. This week has been pretty crazy from a travel and work perspective. I didn't get in to NYC until 2am Monday and had to meet with a new client first thing Tuesday morning.

Why don't you go ahead and send me a few of the web pages you mentioned you like? Then I'll see what I can come up with and we can go from there.

David

Gotcha. An email has been dispatched! biggrin.gif
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post #459 of 724 Old 04-09-2014, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Electrodynamic View Post

28x28x19 (inches). Weight is 97 lbs.

Hey thats only $288 to ship to my address. While it sounds expensive it is not much more than a single 18 to ship to me. rolleyes.gif


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post #460 of 724 Old 04-09-2014, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post

Hey thats only $288 to ship to my address. While it sounds expensive it is not much more than a single 18 to ship to me. rolleyes.gif

When you consider that the HS 24 out-displaces three HT 18's and out-performs multiples of the [old] biggest baddest woofers out there it really puts things into perspective on perceived value per dollar spent.

*edit* If you MUST have a small enclosure volume DO NOT LOOK AT THE HS 24 WOOFER! As everyone saw at the meet, the HS 24 is a big woofer. It will not ever work in a 4 ft^3 sealed box. You literally CAN NOT fit the 24" woofer in an enclosure that small. Minimum size enclosure to even physically fit the woofer is 6 ft^3. 10 ft^3 is on the small side with 15 ft^3 being optimal. We will be bringing a 12 ft^3 or 13 ft^3 enclosure with us to the future meets to show what the HS 24 is capable of. The HS 24 is a huge woofer, period. If you are after a space saving 4 ft^3 woofer do not look at the HS 24.
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post #461 of 724 Old 04-10-2014, 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Moar fun pics from the weekend:

Sweet! Those the ones I took from my gopro?

I think you might have the 5Hz XXX excursion video as well... I still need to edit that thing and post it up.

 

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post #462 of 724 Old 04-10-2014, 03:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Sweet! Those the ones I took from my gopro?

I think you might have the 5Hz XXX excursion video as well... I still need to edit that thing and post it up.

I missed the XXX action all together cause I was upstairs messing around....I want to see those slow mo's. I know of another edited video that might be fun to see as well biggrin.gif
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post #463 of 724 Old 04-10-2014, 05:24 AM
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Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

I missed the XXX action all together cause I was upstairs messing around....I want to see those slow mo's. I know of another edited video that might be fun to see as well biggrin.gif
Yup wink.gif

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post #464 of 724 Old 04-10-2014, 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

I missed the XXX action all together cause I was upstairs messing around....I want to see those slow mo's. I know of another edited video that might be fun to see as well biggrin.gif

lol! I'll try to get to the XXX excursion video tonight.

All of the other videos I have...will be saved for blackmail down the road.

 

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post #465 of 724 Old 04-10-2014, 06:17 AM
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lol! I'll try to get to the XXX excursion video tonight.

All of the other videos I have...will be saved for blackmail down the road.

I didn't black out and go streaking through Ashville or anything did I?!?!?! biggrin.gif

J/K I know which mystery video is floating out there....it's up to 100k hits on youtube biggrin.gif


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post #466 of 724 Old 04-10-2014, 07:35 AM
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Looks like it was another awesome gtg. I feel humbled by everyone's knowledge and enthusiasm that go to these events. 24"...are you kidding me??? smile.gif. Wow. Thanks for sharing the pics and details.


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post #467 of 724 Old 04-10-2014, 08:30 AM
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Jon_B - We never kid about bass reproduction. J/K biggrin.gif

It was an awesome time and as bad-a$$ as the 24" sub was, it was eclipsed by Beast's 8 SI18 sub system. Less than a year ago I came to AVS again to find a single sub. Ended up getting several subs and have a few more on the way. I thought these guys were nuts too to have 8 or 16 18" subs. After hearing Coach's and Beast's setup, I'm sold on having multiple subs. I now ask people if they have ever heard/felt the Space Shuttle take off? Well, that's what I'm going for. And don't worry, it won't be at the expense of the rest of the spectrum as the JTR 212s can more than hold their own just like Beast's Danley's did with his 8 subs.
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post #468 of 724 Old 04-10-2014, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

I didn't black out and go streaking through Ashville or anything did I?!?!?! biggrin.gif

J/K I know which mystery video is floating out there....it's up to 100k hits on youtube biggrin.gif

Chop, should your new nick name be Frank the Tank?...lol
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post #469 of 724 Old 04-10-2014, 09:00 AM
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Chop, should your new nick name be Frank the Tank?...lol

We're going out to the quad and through the gymnasium!!! There's more coming....
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post #470 of 724 Old 04-10-2014, 10:26 AM
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Hey East Coast Boys....Talk of an annual AVSforum gathering was mentioned in this thread. KC is centrally located...

Make it in the summer and we could play on the lake and do some wakeboarding if the tour swings by my joint


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post #471 of 724 Old 04-10-2014, 01:33 PM
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Had a few minutes to think about some of the measurements Paul ran. As with every room I've measured and have seen measurements posted of, Brandon's room gain begins at 30 Hz and progresses at a rate of 10dB per octave (the average of all measurements in my file is 7dB/Oct) as frequency decreases, tempered below 10 Hz by the signal chain roll off.

Bottom line; awesome room gain profile and with the 8 x 18" system he can dial in any low end response known to man. For example, my signal chain is down about 14dB LESS than Brandon's, which closes the gap in disparity of my room gain/octave vs his, and then some. Tighten up the roll off and he'll be flat to 3 Hz with headroom.

I have a Marantz loopback that is down -3dB @ 7 Hz, and I have a loopback of the Berry digital EQ, so I used those to approximate Brandon's roll off. The actual Marantz he uses may have a different roll off, but I can't find it anywhere online. It's a good idea to always run a signal chain loopback before proceeding to measurements/EQ to avoid confusing lack of room gain with signal chain roll off.

Brandon's full range FR of the mains and subs is, save for 1 dip, 10 Hz to 10k Hz (+/-) 3dB (IF he calibrates the subs flat, which, as you can see the first trace we ran, it was not biggrin.gif ), which is certainly a big part of why it sounds so good with all sources auditioned last Saturday.



The 24 drivers Le roll off looks like -6dB @ 100 Hz, but I suspect a bit of that may be the Qtc in 16 cubes. In any case, it's irrelevant as you can see the response with the mains at the LP is flat through cross and sounded as "tight" or had as much "mid bass slam", "punch", or whatever the hell the kids are callin' it these days, as ANY sub I've heard, which includes a few. cool.gif

GTG favorite quote #1; ChopShop, while serving as the GTG chef at the grill: "Man this grill only has 2 settings... off and HELL!"
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post #472 of 724 Old 04-10-2014, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by bossobass View Post

GTG favorite quote #1; ChopShop, while serving as the GTG chef at the grill: "Man this grill only has 2 settings... off and HELL!"

Thanks Bosso! My favorite quote was yours but I don't quite remember. How you said it. Something like that is one clean sub...with a few more colorful but apt words attached.
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post #473 of 724 Old 04-10-2014, 02:06 PM
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Bosso, that brings a room gain question to mind...acoustically, I believe the longest dimension of Brandon's room is about 28'. Based on the general theory that room gain begins and the frequency where the rooms longest dimension is half the wavelength, wouldn't that (only in theory of course) suggest his gain starts at about 20hz?? Not questioning your calculation at all, God knows you are far more knowledgable than I, but more questioning the use of the general formula I've used to estimate what the gain would be in a given room. I'm sure that there are other factors in play, but trying to learn some useful info....I'm just trying to graduate from crazy guy who builds huge $hit to actually being able to apply some useful science. biggrin.gif

Oh, and true story at the grill...made me laugh pretty hard reading your post biggrin.gif


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post #474 of 724 Old 04-10-2014, 03:08 PM
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For comparison, here are some close mic and listening position measurements I took last week of the AE PB18H+ sub in my room. The measurements with less low end gain are without the L-T. The purple is with the L-T. These are without any additional EQ.



Here is the signal chain (blue) and mic rolloff (purple). The amp is -3dB at 6 Hz or 7 Hz. I can't find the measurement right now.

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post #475 of 724 Old 04-10-2014, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

Bosso, that brings a room gain question to mind...acoustically, I believe the longest dimension of Brandon's room is about 28'. Based on the general theory that room gain begins and the frequency where the rooms longest dimension is half the wavelength, wouldn't that (only in theory of course) suggest his gain starts at about 20hz?? Not questioning your calculation at all, God knows you are far more knowledgable than I, but more questioning the use of the general formula I've used to estimate what the gain would be in a given room. I'm sure that there are other factors in play, but trying to learn some useful info....I'm just trying to graduate from crazy guy who builds huge $hit to actually being able to apply some useful science. biggrin.gif

Oh, and true story at the grill...made me laugh pretty hard reading your post biggrin.gif

As I've said for a number of years now, the longest dimension of the room has nothing to do with the onset of boundary-induced "Room Gain".

The Length*2=Wavelength of the onset of "pressure Vessel Gain" is a popular myth with no basis in objective results that I can find. Every room gain profile I've collected over the years, from Ed Mullen's 2,000 cubic feet to triple that size, open to other rooms, every posted in-room response I've matched against the known GP response of the sub measured in-room shows gain beginning in the 30-40 Hz decade.

Room Gain is the result of progressively more constructive reflections vs destructive reflections as wavelength increases (frequency decreases). The only variable is how much dBSPL increase per octave <30 Hz and that is determined by the transmission losses through the boundaries.

It's based on the evidence. If someone has an example of a room with a flat signal chain that coincides with the L*2=WL, they should post it. Otherwise, we have the posted evidence:

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post #476 of 724 Old 04-10-2014, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by desertdome View Post

For comparison, here are some close mic and listening position measurements I took last week of the AE PB18H+ sub in my room. The measurements with less low end gain are without the L-T. The purple is with the L-T. These are without any additional EQ.



Here is the signal chain (blue) and mic rolloff (purple). The amp is -3dB at 6 Hz or 7 Hz. I can't find the measurement right now.


Thanks, DD. Added to my folder. cool.gif
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post #477 of 724 Old 04-10-2014, 03:20 PM
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Looks good but... I'd be rolling in my grave with that -15db 10khz-20khz rolloff you have going on there. eek.gif


and here I was complaining about my -5db@19khz eek.gif

"If Bad Sound Were Fatal, Audio Would Be the Leading Cause of Death."


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post #478 of 724 Old 04-10-2014, 03:22 PM
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How are you computing the mic rolloff (or do you mean mic-pre?)

"If Bad Sound Were Fatal, Audio Would Be the Leading Cause of Death."


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post #479 of 724 Old 04-10-2014, 03:25 PM
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Yeah, I don't trust REW above 10k Hz. I've tested it against TrueRTA and REW always shows a lower frequency response magnitude >10k Hz. I've never investigated the how or why of it, just the objective difference using the same mic rig, mic position, system and source.
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post #480 of 724 Old 04-10-2014, 03:36 PM
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Thanks Bosso...that makes perfect sense. I've just had my searches and such to rely on to this point. The real world experiences you've posted certainly trump that! I feel like I'm finally started to gain some useful skills and info lately. I'm just afraid that now I'll follow the rabbit hole all the way biggrin.gif


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