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Old 04-18-2014, 08:17 PM
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You can't get much more badass then 4,000 30mm rounds per minute.

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Old 04-18-2014, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post

You can't get much more badass then 4,000 30mm rounds per minute.
Wouldn't 4,001 30mm rounds be more badass?
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Old 04-18-2014, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

OH C'MON!!

Can I ever just say something about inductance without some one getting all defensive about it? rolleyes.gif

Great post, really, but my comment was IN NO WAY a peeve about it's inductance. There was a comment about a bump around 35hz and I just mentioned that it (a VERY small bump) was maybe a combination of some inductance and some Qtc. No duh! I never said, "ermagerd this 24" is so slow and will never do >80hz)".

C'mon, I cheer lead for your 24" and my HT18's often. frown.gif If I could have been at the meet I'm sure you would react different to my comment you quoted.



Yes. I'm sure the 24" is awesome and if I actually had money I would buy one but your awesome 24" is not special in that is not subject to the effects of real world things like power compression, mechanical overdrive, thermal overload, other physical abuse, inductance and so on.

You are wrong. I put FIBUTRON technology into the HS 24. It defies physics. tongue.gif But seriously, you are correct in that the woofer is not immune to physical limitations and I never said that it was immune. What I did say, however, was how it performed above and beyond most people's expectations at the meet and that the response plot that Bosso posted up should not be nit-picked.

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Scott,

You got it right. It's indeed a touch of Le and a touch of higher Qtc. cool.gif

I've NEVER touted a big diam driver in all my years on the webbernetz, as you will co-sign.

But... to give a better idea to the casual reader of how monstrous this driver is vs any other I've seen/heard/modeled/built/tested, here is the close mic scaled to Josh's GP of the UXL-18, both of course with no signal shaping, EQ or filters:



Of course, it's 4 times the Vb, but shazam, man. This thing would need no signal shaping at all in any room I've measured. That's big when it comes to a driver with 12L+ displacement that can handle the power... nothing lost to boost... none needed.

It figures to be 60-70% more displacement than the UXL-18 but it plays like 3X the displacement. Not enough time to dig into it at the GTG, but I heard and saw enough.

As Nick said, and I agree 110%, the proof is in the sound (and off-the-cuff measurements). No ill effects I could detect, much less audible Le-induced woes.

I'm used to having to say the same thing 10,000 times before the "yeah but" stops, so forgive the blatant and repetitive endorsement with this one. It's big news for DIY. I'm gonna torture MKT until he scraps his current IB and installs 4 of these in its place. It's probably the IB-perfect driver and I'll lay a stack o' cash James will be wowed. cool.gif

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Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

is this the same driver that was initially called the ib24?. if so, measured (black) vs. model (bright blue).



it appears that the bump/top end rolloff is almost all inductance. the 16 cubic foot cab gives a q of around .83 in winisd. that qts doesn't create much of a rise in frequency response on the low end. looks like about 8 db of reduced sensitivity on the top end from inductance effects. that seems in the right ballpark given the big voice coil and some inductance compensation in the motor.

@electrodynamic, congratulations on your engineering work and surviving the brutal testing. better ramp up production!

Thanks LTD. biggrin.gif It's not exactly the same driver, but the concept did start out as an IB woofer. Many changes have been made to the design that lend this/current woofer suitable for sealed or IB. With so much stroke and Sd it's almost a crime to not recommend it for use in an IB alignment. Hell, we didn't even bring it to full stroke with 4,000 watts of power PER COIL in 16 ft^3 sealed at the meet . IB will be no problem for this woofer.
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Old 04-19-2014, 05:11 AM
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Wouldn't 4,001 30mm rounds be more badass?

Yes, but only a little, not much. :D

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Old 04-19-2014, 08:46 AM
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I had the chance as a kid to watch several A10s strafe a hillside on a few different occasions and I have to say, there is just nothing like their guns blazing. Even from about five miles away, the power and sheer magnitude of their destructive force is awe-inspiring, something that must be heard & felt to be believed.

This was an awesome GTG, as everyone before has said. I'm glad somebody finally took up the challenge of measuring output at a GTG in real time with REW. Of course it would be Dave and Paul who would do it. wink.gif A future GTG at Dave's house sounds like a potentially legendary event. Sign me up, brother!

Beast, how's your Airedale doing?!? smile.gifsmile.gifsmile.gif What'd she think of the GTG and everyone invading her house? Hope all is well!
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Old 04-19-2014, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeakerPower View Post

I encourage you to try paralleling the LMS5400's coils to make a nominal 1 ohm driver like Mark said and putting one each channel of the SP2-8000. This would make a much bigger difference than going from a SP2-8000 to a SP2-12000. I have heard reports that the iPAL 1 ohm woofer gets loud with SP1-6000. You can always buy another SP2-8000 for UXL-18s. So easy to spend other peoples money!

Well guess what Mr. SpeakerPower...it looks like I'm going to follow your advice and wire my LMS-5400s down to 1 ohm. Instead of buying a SP1-4000 I'm going to buy a second SP2-8000, which will give me 4 channels (4,000w each at 2 ohms). I'll use 3 of the channels to drive my LMS-5400s at 1 ohm each and the 4th channel will spread 4,000w across the pair of UXL-18s. That will mean I'm giving the subs all they can handle except maybe the UXL-18s but those are officially listed as 1,200w RMS so I think 2,000w will be good. At that point I won't be amp or sub limited with what I have. If that's not enough bass for my not large room on a wood joist floor over a basement, I'm going to need some recommendations for a bassaholics clinic so I can get help. smile.gif By the way, I tell friends and family I have that many subs so I can recreate what I think the Space Shuttle takeoff felt/sounded like. smile.gif

David

Who's suggestion? wink.gif That sounds like a very solid and very powerful plan. With the coils in parallel, please be very careful with sine wave testing and keep the duration very brief. I have personally melted a few high temp coils right off the former with VLF sine wave testing using the 4k amps. redface.gif
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Old 04-19-2014, 10:37 AM
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You are just up the road a piece from me, I'm in Franklin.

 

By the looks of your guest list a lot of other folks are not too far either.

 

Small world.

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Old 04-19-2014, 10:59 AM
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Who's suggestion? wink.gif That sounds like a very solid and very powerful plan. With the coils in parallel, please be very careful with sine wave testing and keep the duration very brief. I have personally melted a few high temp coils right off the former with VLF sine wave testing using the 4k amps. redface.gif

Haha, I guess it was your suggestion first and then Brian came in and closed the sell by giving me confidence his amps could handle the 1ish load. And thanks for the caution on the sine wave testing, I don't plan to do much if any of that but if I do, I'll definitely keep it low volume with short duration.

By the way Mark, since we've been talking about the JTR and Danley speakers in this thread, I was wondering, do you have any recommendations on how I might be able to find someone in the East TN area or surrounding states to find someone that has some Cats for me to listen to? Do people sometimes post in your forum to find someone willing to audition a set? Thanks.

David

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Old 04-19-2014, 02:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Wouldn't 4,001 30mm rounds be more badass?

Yes, definitely smile.gif

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Originally Posted by nube View Post

I had the chance as a kid to watch several A10s strafe a hillside on a few different occasions and I have to say, there is just nothing like their guns blazing. Even from about five miles away, the power and sheer magnitude of their destructive force is awe-inspiring, something that must be heard & felt to be believed.

This was an awesome GTG, as everyone before has said. I'm glad somebody finally took up the challenge of measuring output at a GTG in real time with REW. Of course it would be Dave and Paul who would do it. wink.gif A future GTG at Dave's house sounds like a potentially legendary event. Sign me up, brother!

Beast, how's your Airedale doing?!? smile.gifsmile.gifsmile.gif What'd she think of the GTG and everyone invading her house? Hope all is well!

I'm in too! Without a doubt. Man, the pup would have probably passed out from all the excitement of that many people here. First time since she was a puppy, she peed the floor out of excitement when Just Andrew, Jake, Nathan, and Pop came over the night before. That was enough for me. I put her up for the day Saturday in the VID (very important dog) suite at my local boarding place smile.gif

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You are just up the road a piece from me, I'm in Franklin.

By the looks of your guest list a lot of other folks are not too far either.

Small world.

I was actually through Franklin, Hayesville, Murphy area just last week. Probably drove right past ya smile.gif
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Old 04-19-2014, 02:08 PM - Thread Starter
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I just had a fantastic demo with Laugsbach, (Larry) this afternoon. Fantastic guy and had a great time talking shop and running through some fun material!!! He mentioned he would offer a write-up with his impression, but I think:


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Old 04-19-2014, 07:12 PM
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Very cool, B.

Larry (AKA Jeff Daniels) is a class act. Woulda been cool to get a pic of Rowdy Roddy and Jeff Daniels blastin' hits. biggrin.gif
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Old 04-19-2014, 08:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Jeff Daniels. That is a hoot for sure! Agreed, but with your affinity to put celebrities to AVS members, I give you your doppelganger, in more ways than one really



Also one of my fave bass players of all time. Seeing him with Steve Vai (Twice in two days) was one incredible experience. Live at the Astoria is still one of my best concert discs I own smile.gif
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Old 04-21-2014, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

I just had a fantastic demo with Laugsbach, (Larry) this afternoon. Fantastic guy and had a great time talking shop and running through some fun material!!! He mentioned he would offer a write-up with his impression, but I think:


Indeed...Larry liked it! A LOT!!! smile.gif

Thanks again Brandon for hosting me on the spur of the moment and for allowing me an opportunity to pick up the XXX driver so I can return Josh's ported monster back to its proper set-up! I really, really wanted to make this GTG but my wife and I were teaching a workshop that weekend. I enjoyed reading all of the comments in this thread and I had hoped to one day visit your home theater.

Easter weekend means a road trip to Asheville! My wife got a last minute call for a workshop that she really wanted to attend and Brandon said come on down. You have a wonderful home and an incredible home theater room. You really want for nothing in your space. Brandon let me sit in the MLP and started off with a sample of music selections from the GTG. I want to say it was like a "live" event but it was more...I closed my eyes and I thought I was in Carnegie Hall. The room appeared to have expanded out to infinity...two channel playback was an eye and ear opener. I can't even imagine anything sounding "better"...including the real event heard live!

Brandon continued with the music selections and the style as well as the venues changed...now I was in a small club and the room morphed into a perfect club experience. As far as I'm concerned, you have the audio version of the "Room of Requirement" from Harry Potter. Foolishly, I thought I couldn't improve my space but Brandon, you have enlighten me to yet another upgrade path with the Danley speakers. As you increased the volume, the sound got better and better...the experience became more 3D like and not only was I on the stage with the performer but I was in the instrument and one with it. A mystical experience...cool.gif

On to the scubasteve's demo disc and all of the usual suspects...I honestly thought he had Crowson TMA or ButtKickers in the chair...nope...just raw subwoofer energy from the 8 SI subs! You have so much tactile energy even on a concrete floor...I have the same amount of subs but I don't have that type of energy in my space! No matter the clip or how loud we listened to it, it just sounded perfect. I was completely immersed into the scene...a true movie experience. Art of Flight was as good as it gets!

Last but not least was Metallica Through the Never...eventually at +10dB eek.gif...Brandon selected "One" and I can't think of a better "encore" to this impressive demo session!

Effortless at any volume and a true work of art...you should be very, very proud of what you have built Brandon and thanks for shinning the light towards my next upgrade!!
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Old 04-21-2014, 09:21 AM
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Larry (AKA Jeff Daniels) is a class act. Woulda been cool to get a pic of Rowdy Roddy and Jeff Daniels blastin' hits. biggrin.gif

Right back at you Dave! I learned so much from my time spent in your theater room...cool.gif

I am so looking forward to your Summer GTG...I have plenty of FF miles to use on a flight to your place!
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Old 04-21-2014, 10:33 AM
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I'm not a metal lover by any means but the One (really the entire disc) was one of the most impressive system demos I've ever seen and heard. For all of my talk about wishing the Danley used a better compression driver, that was truly magical and all encompassing. And those 8 SIs were phenomenal and made me think I was no longer crazy to go with 5 18" uber drivers.

Question: I was watching Survivorman and he said "Welcome to the jungle.", which made me think of Guns and Roses. Is there a similar (to the One) concert Bluray that people would recommend?

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Old 04-21-2014, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
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Question: I was watching Survivorman and he said "Welcome to the jungle.", which made me think of Guns and Roses. Is there a similar (to the One) concert Bluray that people would recommend?

Wow, good question.
I know there's an upcoming release that may offer what you're looking for. But as to currently available, high production quality releases, with all the changes the band's been through, I'm not sure.

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Old 04-21-2014, 11:05 AM
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In today's environment every band should have a statement blu ray!!!

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Old 04-21-2014, 11:06 AM
 
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Are you asking about a good Gun's N' Roses demo ? Or just a good concert demo ? I am confused. Plenty of good concert demo's, but since Guns N' Roses broke up not much there, and the technology 20 years ago won't allow that stuff from back then to hold up by today's standards (like the Metallica through the Never)
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Old 04-21-2014, 11:11 AM - Thread Starter
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In today's environment every band should have a statement blu ray!!!

Agreed for sure!

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Originally Posted by dgage View Post

I'm not a metal lover by any means but the One (really the entire disc) was one of the most impressive system demos I've ever seen and heard. For all of my talk about wishing the Danley used a better compression driver, that was truly magical and all encompassing. And those 8 SIs were phenomenal and made me think I was no longer crazy to go with 5 18" uber drivers.

Question: I was watching Survivorman and he said "Welcome to the jungle.", which made me think of Guns and Roses. Is there a similar (to the One) concert Bluray that people would recommend?

Don't know about GNR statement disc, but I am slowly collecting cool rock BD's at this point. Some of my other faves are Rush - Time Machine, Dream Theater's Live at Budokan, and Steve Vai's Where the Wild Things Are. All very fun front to back.

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Old 04-21-2014, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Are you asking about a good Gun's N' Roses demo ? Or just a good concert demo ? I am confused. Plenty of good concert demo's, but since Guns N' Roses broke up not much there, and the technology 20 years ago won't allow that stuff from back then to hold up by today's standards (like the Metallica through the Never)

I was specifically asking about GNR, partially for the reasons you mentioned...that's too bad.

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Old 04-21-2014, 11:24 AM
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Agreed for sure!
Don't know about GNR statement disc, but I am slowly collecting cool rock BD's at this point. Some of my other faves are Rush - Time Machine, Dream Theater's Live at Budokan, and Steve Vai's Where the Wild Things Are. All very fun front to back.

Just to pile on. Also check out. Jeff Beck: Live at Ronnie Scott's and Splipknot: Sickness Live at Download

I buy and sell bluray movies but i always keep my concerts. I get more replay value out of them by far.
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Old 04-21-2014, 11:35 AM
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Within Temptation - Black Symphony is def worth picking up

Zappa Plays Zappa DVD (not on BR) is pretty great as well
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Old 04-21-2014, 11:48 AM
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Additional AVS discussion here; http://www.avsforum.com/t/827831/any-blu-ray-concert-dvds

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Old 04-21-2014, 11:54 AM
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I am big fan of the new Black Sabbath disc, but sonically it is not as good as the Metallica disc. I want the new Ronnie James Duo disc.

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Old 04-21-2014, 12:10 PM
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All this talk remained me, I've got a Black Sabbath Heaven and Hell (Dio) Bluray, I've been saving for just the right moment, haven't even opened it ... then I forgot I had it, embarrassing ... redface.gif

Love the Dio Sabbath years.
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the technology 20 years ago won't allow that stuff from back then to hold up by today's standards

The tech 20 years ago, should be able to hold up well actually (I'm amazed at what was captured at Woodstock, and other wild festival environments of 40 plus years ago).
There's one element that really helps with superb audio translating to later release, that's isolation and triggering. Triggering allows the absolutely perfect drum sounds, and live work, captured for such "statement", really benefits. You don't want to high pass some of your drum mics ... but high levels of LF contaminate the tom and kick drum mics. Triggering, eliminates much of these issues.


Question, the Metallica Through the Never, is this from an arena "in the round" tour? If so, they used the coolest subwoofer array, the TM array. It suspended (80)18"s, in a 10 box high vertical line array, directly above the stage. Simply due to cabinet spacing, the array keeps huge amounts of LF off the stage below, a simple elegant solution.

Anyway, these types of tech advances have certainly increased the quality of both the live event, and any A/V capture.

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Old 04-21-2014, 12:12 PM
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I am big fan of the new Black Sabbath disc, but sonically it is not as good as the Metallica disc. I want the new Ronnie James Duo disc.

eek.gif wow, ironic

I only have one, live at Radio City Music Hall

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(3)Seaton Cat12C up front, (4)QSC K8 sides/rears
(2)Seaton SubM-HP, (4)18" IB
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Old 04-22-2014, 01:48 PM
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I ordered that Dream Theater one. You not the first to recommend it so I'll give it a shot. Never heard much from them before so it's all new to me.
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Old 04-22-2014, 02:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow, really? World class musicians, drummer and guitarist especially.

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)
 
HT seats for sale!
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/211-ac...seat-rows.html
Beast's DIY Master Measurement Thread
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Old 04-22-2014, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH View Post

eek.gif wow, ironic

I only have one, live at Radio City Music Hall

Dio looked really old in that disc, I guess that was the stomach cancer at work. I cannot believe how cheap many of the concert blu rays are at Amazon. Less than what I used to pay for CDs.

___________________________________________
NWCgrad's Mostly DIY Basement HT - http://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-gen...sement-ht.html
NWCgrad's 10” coaxial collaborative design - http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...ve-design.html
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Old 04-22-2014, 03:51 PM
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Hi All,looks like I am a little late to the party. Just moved into a new house so I haven't been on the boards recently. I hate I missed this.

That said, is there anyone on this thread that might be in the Charlotte vacinity? I am looking to get my own DIY sub going, and I would love to hear one that somebody has already built.

Ideas from the group are welcome too. So far,I am thinking of a Marty or flat pack from Erich for a Dayton.
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