Can Onkyo's run pro amps without voltage step-up? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 57 Old 04-09-2014, 09:32 PM
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Just another thought... I'm not getting any lights showing on the amp. When I have the Behringer software open on my computer, the input signal is minimal. Would that be caused by incorrect wiring?
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post #32 of 57 Old 04-09-2014, 09:32 PM - Thread Starter
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fwiw...hopefully it helps you, but it may help someonw else as well...many people may read this post, long into the future...

I picked up a sonotube set up for dual opposed, sealed drivers...with a bare wire leading from outside to inside... I identified one wire, that had writing on it, from externally, and continuing internally... no speakons or terminals... and designated that one as positive... I followed that wire to the inside of the sub, and wired it to a positive (red ring on the spring ) connector on one side of one of the coils... I ran a short wire from the negative connector (black ring, right next to the red one) around to the positive coil on the other side of the driver... Then I connected a wire from the negative coil, next to the one I just ran a 'jumper'' to, back to the original 'negative' wire leading out of the sub... it was the one that DIDN"T have writing on it....

I ran a wire from the first positive connection, about 5 feet long, to the other side of the sonotube... I ran another wire, also about 5 feet long, from the (second) negative coil, that led back into the 'negative' wire leading out of the sub, also so it was hanging out of the other side of the tube... but I tied a loose knot, so I'd know it was the negative... then I screwed down that driver...

going to the other end of the tube...I located both wires... one had the knot... I connected the wire without the knot ( positive lead) to the positive connection on one side of the 2nd driver... Connected a 'jumper' wire from the negative , right next to that one, around to the positive connector on the other side of that driver (the second coil, on the second driver)... I then connected the wire with the knot, from the other side's negative, to the negative connector post on the second side of the second driver. Whew.... I followed this... :

http://a248.e.akamai.net/pix.crutchfield.com/ca/learningcenter/car/subwoofer_wiring/2DVC_4-ohm_mono.jpg

Crutchfield has great diagrams...From the main site, search for "subwoofer wiring diagram" and click on the first search result, and then enter what you are trying to set up... both for number of amplifier channels, and for number (and type) of subwoofer drivers. hope it helps.
Joseph

...what a long, strange trip its been.
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post #33 of 57 Old 04-09-2014, 09:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LO4F View Post

Just another thought... I'm not getting any lights showing on the amp. When I have the Behringer software open on my computer, the input signal is minimal. Would that be caused by incorrect wiring?

it's possible

Quote:
Originally Posted by LO4F View Post

I am running a single D2 ohm sub using the Crutchfield guide so that it is a 4 ohm load on the amp. I also have a Single 4 ohm sub I have tried it on... but for now it is too late to test anything out (kids are to bed). I'm going to take apart the speakon and re-wire everything tomorrow, but I double checked everything the first time, I thought... Though I am hoping it is something dumb/simple, because I am at a loss with this.

dont give up. my problem was a 'simple' user error,that was not very complicated once I figured out what I was doing wrong. My problem was my wiring into my iNuke, and didn't necessitate opening up my sub. Double check that first... but it may very well be a wiring issue inside your sub. I hope not, because that's harder.

I will say, that once I corrected my own dumb-ass error... the output from my "new" ( to me , albeit hand me down sonotube enclosure) sub is just on a completely different level from the ID sub I'd been using before (HSU). Hang tight, because the solution is there... we just have to find it. smile.gif

willing to help in any way I can....gotta pay it back...or forward...
Joseph

...what a long, strange trip its been.
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post #34 of 57 Old 04-09-2014, 10:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LO4F View Post

I have my speakon wired as +1 and +2 and set to bridged on the amp.

Make sure only ONE end of your cable is wired this way ( the amp side )
The other end of the cable going to the speakon connector on the sub box should still be +1 -1
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post #35 of 57 Old 04-10-2014, 03:50 AM
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So can anyone confirm that the iNuke3000 (non dsp version) can be connected to an AVR via an RCA to TS connector? I have had it wired that way for a while, but, I suspect that it might be limiting what the amp is capable of. I order a new RCA to XLR from Monoprice which should be here on Saturday. It was only $4 so no big deal if it sounds the same.
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post #36 of 57 Old 04-10-2014, 10:18 AM
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I would say that a TS connector is the "correct" way to feed the iNuke an unbalanced signal. TRS and XLR are both for balanced input, in this case.
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post #37 of 57 Old 04-10-2014, 12:24 PM
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I don't think it matters if you use a TRS or TS for unbalanced, they can both be wired the same.

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post #38 of 57 Old 04-10-2014, 04:24 PM
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My answer is a firm no. I've run Onkyo receivers and many pro amps for years. And the signal strength sucked on evey Onkyo receiver. I would strongly advise a Art cleanbox signal booster.
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post #39 of 57 Old 04-10-2014, 05:11 PM
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If you're making the cable yourself, sure. A TRS with ring and tip connected together is the same as a TS, but if you're buying an RCA to TRS cable, it will probably have the ring unconnected, which will result in a low signal and a lot of noise on the iNukes. My Onkyo is able to clip the iNuke, so it seems to put out sufficient voltage.
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post #40 of 57 Old 04-10-2014, 05:17 PM
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my 818 has no issues running my 2 EP4ks, it will clip them actually

the Yamaha RX-A3000 would not
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post #41 of 57 Old 04-10-2014, 07:18 PM
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My experience with Onkyo>EP2500's is..... well, YMMV. I never had a problem with output level, but hum and noise varied between AVR's and between households.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

I order a new RCA to XLR from Monoprice which should be here on Saturday. It was only $4 so no big deal if it sounds the same.

The good thing about the MP adapters you are getting... you can open up the xlr end of the cable and snip the jumper connecting pin 1 (shield) and pin 3 (signal -), keeping pins 2 and 3 connections intact. Isolating the shield from the audio signal offered less ground loop hum/noise (and more apparent output) than with the jumper in place in some cases. Only modify and use one cable at a time.

YMMV.
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post #42 of 57 Old 04-10-2014, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsnasty View Post

Make sure only ONE end of your cable is wired this way ( the amp side )
The other end of the cable going to the speakon connector on the sub box should still be +1 -1

I'm using bare wire on the sub side. I re-wired the speakon to make sure it was +1 +2
Quote:
dont give up. my problem was a 'simple' user error,that was not very complicated once I figured out what I was doing wrong. My problem was my wiring into my iNuke, and didn't necessitate opening up my sub. Double check that first... but it may very well be a wiring issue inside your sub. I hope not, because that's harder.

I haven't completely finished my subs, so re-wiring won't be an issue. I was testing the amp before I tightened everything up.

As of today, I double checked everything and it is the same issue. I can never get more than one light to come on the amp with everything boosted to max and volume to -20.
I ordered a multimeter from Amazon yesterday, it will be here tomorrow so I'll test that out. I don't know what else to do at this point.
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post #43 of 57 Old 04-11-2014, 03:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zhillsguy View Post

My experience with Onkyo>EP2500's is..... well, YMMV. I never had a problem with output level, but hum and noise varied between AVR's and between households.
The good thing about the MP adapters you are getting... you can open up the xlr end of the cable and snip the jumper connecting pin 1 (shield) and pin 3 (signal -), keeping pins 2 and 3 connections intact. Isolating the shield from the audio signal offered less ground loop hum/noise (and more apparent output) than with the jumper in place in some cases. Only modify and use one cable at a time.

YMMV.

Can you, or anyone else elaborate more on the need to modify the MonoPrice RCA to XLR cable? Do I just snip the wire on Pin #1 and that's it? You confused me when you said that I snip pin #1 and the jumper to pin #3 but you also said to leave pin #3 intact???

Can someone please explain this?
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post #44 of 57 Old 04-11-2014, 04:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

Can you, or anyone else elaborate more on the need to modify the MonoPrice RCA to XLR cable? Do I just snip the wire on Pin #1 and that's it? You confused me when you said that I snip pin #1

That is it, just snip the jumper to Pin 1. Leave a little length so it can be soldered back if needed.
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post #45 of 57 Old 04-11-2014, 05:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swolephile View Post

My answer is a firm no. I've run Onkyo receivers and many pro amps for years. And the signal strength sucked on evey Onkyo receiver. I would strongly advise a Art cleanbox signal booster.
As I mentioned early in the thread, I've actually measured mine (and got about 7V). Did you measure yours? If not it could be your set up and the advice to spend money for an added device that will likely not be needed is not so great.
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post #46 of 57 Old 04-11-2014, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

So can anyone confirm that the iNuke3000 (non dsp version) can be connected to an AVR via an RCA to TS connector?

A regular RCA to 1/4” TS cable will work fine. A RCA to TRS cable that wasn’t wired correctly could be a problem however, as Mike noted. (Does anyone actually make a cable like that? I can’t imagine what it would be good for.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

Can you, or anyone else elaborate more on the need to modify the MonoPrice RCA to XLR cable? Do I just snip the wire on Pin #1 and that's it?

Can someone please explain this?

If the XLR is wired to Pins 2 and 3, with a jumper between 3 and 1, clipping the jumper can sometimes reduce noise if you’re getting a ground loop hum. If you aren’t, no reason to clip it.

Now, if the XLR is wired to Pins 2 and 1, you definitely do not want to clip the jumper. That would get you the same situation Mike mentioned


Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

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post #47 of 57 Old 04-11-2014, 03:49 PM
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It's important to remember that the 1⁄4" connector dates back to 1878, and has been used for a wide variety of things including amplifier output. For some equipment shorting the tip and ring will cause damage.
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post #48 of 57 Old 04-11-2014, 09:04 PM
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Well, I got a multimeter and tested my AVR output... I never got more than 0.6 volts with the subwoofer trim set to 0. When set to +12, I got about 1.8 volts at 0 volume. I'm guessing that's the culprit.

For more detail: I ran a 60 hz test tone through the AVR with my speakers off, just sub running.
I first had the sub trim at +12, at -20 volume I got 0.4 volts, at -10 I got 1.1 volts, and at 0 I got 1.8 volts.
At sub trim 0, -20 was 0.1 volts, -10 was 0.3, 0 was 0.6.

I'm assuming I need more than that, right?
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post #49 of 57 Old 04-11-2014, 09:17 PM
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The inuke 3000 only needs 0.75v to reach full power.
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post #50 of 57 Old 04-11-2014, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrkazador View Post

The inuke 3000 only needs 0.75v to reach full power.

So if I never turn it up past -20... I'm getting no where near that. Am I wrong in assuming I need more than 0.1 volts?
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post #51 of 57 Old 04-11-2014, 09:42 PM
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Is it possible to reset the inuke DSP to default? If so, do that. Turn the gain to max on the inuke. Run audyssey on the receiver, only one mic position is fine. After the calibration, what did audyssey set the sub trim to?

I'm curious if it sets it below +12.
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post #52 of 57 Old 04-11-2014, 09:46 PM
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I'll give that a try tomorrow morning and see what it gives me.
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post #53 of 57 Old 04-12-2014, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

As I mentioned early in the thread, I've actually measured mine (and got about 7V). Did you measure yours? If not it could be your set up and the advice to spend money for an added device that will likely not be needed is not so great.

As I stated before, the signal strength on every Onkyo receiver I used sucked with the exception of the old flagship Tx-NR 1000. If your mileage varied then great for you. Doesn't change the lackluster results I received.
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post #54 of 57 Old 04-12-2014, 01:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swolephile View Post

As I stated before, the signal strength on every Onkyo receiver I used sucked with the exception of the old flagship Tx-NR 1000. If your mileage varied then great for you. Doesn't change the lackluster results I received.
So you didn't actually measure the output?
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post #55 of 57 Old 04-12-2014, 02:56 AM
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I did. The measurements showed I was supposedy getting up to 4volts from my last three Onkyo receivers. IN real world usage the signal was horribly weak in my opinion with a variety of pro amps with various input sensitivities.

On paper my Onkyo preamp and Onkyo receivers should have similar preout voltage however my personal experience has been otherwise.
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post #56 of 57 Old 04-12-2014, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LO4F View Post

So if I never turn it up past -20... I'm getting no where near that. Am I wrong in assuming I need more than 0.1 volts?

If this is the case, and you gain matched properly, setup the iNukes software correctly, then I would assume that you need something like an Art Cleanbox Pro, or Matchbox HD, or Samson S-convert.
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post #57 of 57 Old 04-12-2014, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swolephile View Post

I did. The measurements showed I was supposedy getting up to 4volts from my last three Onkyo receivers. IN real world usage the signal was horribly weak in my opinion with a variety of pro amps with various input sensitivities.
What do you mean by 'weak'? You have 4V, enough to drive any pro or domestic amp I've seen to clipping. With 4V, you don't need anything between the pre out and the amp.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swolephile View Post

On paper my Onkyo preamp and Onkyo receivers should have similar preout voltage however my personal experience has been otherwise.
Could you clarify this?
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