Has anyone ever played with in wall speaker options ? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 22 Old 04-04-2014, 06:43 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm looking at in wall speakers for music around the house and the first thing I notice is most consumer retail options are expensive and generally unimpressive.

Makes me wonder if this community knows a good high value solution ?

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post #2 of 22 Old 04-04-2014, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I'm looking at in wall speakers for music around the house and the first thing I notice is most consumer retail options are expensive and generally unimpressive.

Makes me wonder if this community knows a good high value solution ?

I poked around with this a bit. I actually plan on using the volts series. Based upon feedback I've gotten so far, it should be "reasonable" to do with a minor tweak to the crossover. I believe tux has also done this as well (http://www.diysoundgroup.com/forum/index.php?topic=127.0). The big issue with "non cabinet" in-wall/ceiling, I believe, is the crossover. However, it might be possible to correct with a good AVR or external DSP.

I must be guilty because people say I am guilty because they chose to call me guilty because they refuse to see the truth. Much easier to be part of the mob..
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post #3 of 22 Old 04-04-2014, 10:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trepidati0n View Post

I poked around with this a bit. I actually plan on using the volts series. Based upon feedback I've gotten so far, it should be "reasonable" to do with a minor tweak to the crossover. I believe tux has also done this as well (http://www.diysoundgroup.com/forum/index.php?topic=127.0). The big issue with "non cabinet" in-wall/ceiling, I believe, is the crossover. However, it might be possible to correct with a good AVR or external DSP.

I am surprised DIY community has not figured out a crossover specifically for this application or tested any drivers that work work well in this situation.

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post #4 of 22 Old 04-04-2014, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I am surprised DIY community has not figured out a crossover specifically for this application or tested any drivers that work work well in this situation.

I'm not. It is a niche application in a niche market that, my guess, a vast majority of speaker designers would consider "inferior" compared to a cabinet speaker.
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post #5 of 22 Old 04-04-2014, 11:06 AM
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Well, I did it. Trepidation provided the link. I'd personally say it's superior to a cabinet design. The only drawbacks, IMO, are construction requirements, and limited placement and maneuverability. I thought that design would garner some attention but hardly anything. One person built them and loved them, even posted it in the "hey guys..." thread, but nothing. I don't care, I did it for me. But I thought people would want something like this. My wife loves the WAF of it and guests are always enamoured with the idea. But I did have to trash my drywall to do it biggrin.gif
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post #6 of 22 Old 04-04-2014, 11:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

Well, I did it. Trepidation provided the link. I'd personally say it's superior to a cabinet design. The only drawbacks, IMO, are construction requirements, and limited placement and maneuverability. I thought that design would garner some attention but hardly anything. One person built them and loved them, even posted it in the "hey guys..." thread, but nothing. I don't care, I did it for me. But I thought people would want something like this. My wife loves the WAF of it and guests are always enamoured with the idea. But I did have to trash my drywall to do it biggrin.gif

I am interested but your design is actually too awesome for me. I was looking for something just a tad cheaper- I want to put in some in wall or in ceiling speakers so wife can listen to music and run them off a cheap speaker selector switch. I don't want to do a full FUSION 10 with waveguide though- something like a coax might work better. It's to fill the house with good sound- not important is the directivity. Different than your solution I think.

I am reading about your build now. Looks nice!
What do you like about it that is "better" ?

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post #7 of 22 Old 04-04-2014, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

I'd personally say it's superior to a cabinet design.

I think that might be the rub. I believe there is a huge belief that "in wall = bad". Whether it is true or not doesn't matter because of a perception. That is why I didn't say they were inferior...just that a lot of people think they are. My belief has always been this, "if IB subs can sound good, there is no reason why IB anything can't sound good". It is just a matter of understanding and controlling the physics.
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post #8 of 22 Old 04-04-2014, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post


What do you like about it that is "better" ?

Half space means 6db gain in the most important band. No diffraction. And Reduced SBIR. Those are freakishly huge advantages in the world of sound reproduction.

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I think that might be the rub. I believe there is a huge belief that "in wall = bad". Whether it is true or not doesn't matter because of a perception.

Quite true. And the draw backs are understandably considerable also.
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post #9 of 22 Old 04-04-2014, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I'm looking at in wall speakers for music around the house and the first thing I notice is most consumer retail options are expensive and generally unimpressive.

Makes me wonder if this community knows a good high value solution ?

I have a bunch of the Monoprice 8" in-wall speakers, and I think they sound great for the price. My first attempt at building a budget 7.1 system in my old house used them for all 7 channels. I'm sure the quality isn't as good as my other speakers, and nowhere close to being as good as the Tempests I'm building, but for music around the house I think they would be great.
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post #10 of 22 Old 04-04-2014, 01:07 PM
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most consumer retail options are expensive and generally unimpressive.
That's why I made my own in-wall MTM's about 10 years ago, and been using them since biggrin.gif

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post #11 of 22 Old 04-04-2014, 02:35 PM
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That's why I made my own in-wall MTM's about 10 years ago, and been using them since biggrin.gif

Okay...stop being a teenage girl and ditch the tease. biggrin.gif

We need pics and details please. smile.gif

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post #12 of 22 Old 04-04-2014, 02:53 PM
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Hahaha....
Been soooo long I hardly remembered to appreciate the reference.

Each in-wall MTM consist of 2 Vifa 8's and a Vifa 1" Soft dome
All active - driven by 2 Hafler 220 ( Pooged )
All electronics are on a dedicated 20A power line.
Speaker wire is 2 runs of JSC 4 conductor 14. ( double up to #11 equivalent )
The MTM's handle the upper bass and treble.
The bass is summed and driven by another amp into (2) 8 cu ft cabs.
Each w a 15. they are center clustered on the floor between L& R ;
"draped" ( as they ain't that pretty )
Tuned low, but as I don't use this for < 20Hz it wouldn't be of much interest to infrasonic fans tongue.gif
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freakishly huge advantages
Agreed

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post #13 of 22 Old 04-05-2014, 07:21 AM
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I personally think that in-wall speakers or speakers that are flush mounted to a baffle wall suffer from the stigma of crappy sound because of the crap being putout by the big box companies that really do sound bad.

I plan to mount my Seos-15 + JBL-2226 behind an AT screen and into a baffle wall, but,, I can honestly not look you in the face & tell you that I don't have reservations wrt doing a flush mount speaker because I have spent countless hours listening to B&W & Klipsch THX Ultra-2 in walls and they seriously sounded bad to me.

I
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post #14 of 22 Old 04-05-2014, 07:28 AM
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By the way: I am still trying to figure out the design details on the baffle wall that I am building. I plan to use 2" by 8" studs as the frame, and cover it with two layers of 3/4" MDF with a layer of 5/8" drywall in between the two 3/4" layers of MDF.

I still have many questions about baffle walls, seating risers, where & how to mount properly mount my Seos based speakers and a few other things.

So if anyone out there knows anything about building baffle walls, seating risers, and how to position & mount the LCR's.....please hit me up because the other dedicated theater forum is moving really slow! I will pay for your help in answering basic questions!
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post #15 of 22 Old 04-05-2014, 07:39 AM - Thread Starter
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You should read the thx white paper on baffle wall construction and purpose - I believe this is where the concept of baffle walls took popularity in theater sound applications. I'd email into them perhaps and see what you get ? The pro designers in the theater builder section have read your request and questions but won't answer till they get your check.

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post #16 of 22 Old 04-05-2014, 07:53 AM
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I personally think that in-wall speakers or speakers that are flush mounted to a baffle wall suffer from the stigma of crappy sound because of the crap being putout by the big box companies that really do sound bad.
Most definitely. The largest names in sound have capitalized on their name and produced cheap stuff as well.
Implementation ( in-wall ) is also a big part of it.

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post #17 of 22 Old 04-05-2014, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

Well, I did it. Trepidation provided the link. I'd personally say it's superior to a cabinet design. The only drawbacks, IMO, are construction requirements, and limited placement and maneuverability. I thought that design would garner some attention but hardly anything. One person built them and loved them, even posted it in the "hey guys..." thread, but nothing. I don't care, I did it for me. But I thought people would want something like this. My wife loves the WAF of it and guests are always enamoured with the idea. But I did have to trash my drywall to do it biggrin.gif

 

 

In a lot of ways, in-walls have HUGE advantage compared to typical cabinet design............as previously noted SBIR issues. Downside, placement is critical and must be well dampen and sealed from surroundings.   Small form factor and stealth are advantages.............ie. in-wall, baffle, column etc.

 

Yes, there is a lot of commercial crap out there...................but there are some companies that have stellar in-wall products that can be duplicated.

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post #18 of 22 Old 04-05-2014, 08:06 AM
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The elimination of baffle diffraction issues was the clincher,
other advantages were the bonus.

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post #19 of 22 Old 04-08-2014, 12:20 PM - Thread Starter
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I was more asking from the perspective of higher value. If a good set of in walls costs $100-$200 is there a DIY option for around the same price but offers better value in terms of quality for the money spent ?

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post #20 of 22 Old 04-08-2014, 12:47 PM
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My approach was to find drivers of acceptable profile and T/S specs to fit into a small volume.
I built a sealed cab ( of that volume ) within the wall cavity ( UN-reinforced drywall doesn't get it ).

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post #21 of 22 Old 04-08-2014, 04:02 PM
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One of the very best systems I've ever heard was in wall, but slightly higher than your aiming for.
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post #22 of 22 Old 04-09-2014, 07:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Lol. Yes.

I wanted to run 4 zones off pandora for wife. Two indoor in ceiling or in walls and two pairs out doors

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