Oops - Tempest Enclosure - Page 2 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #31 of 53 Old 04-14-2014, 10:15 PM
 
pokeme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: gta Canada
Posts: 783
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 486
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

If he is able to cut mitres in plywood he can probably flush trim a panel. I haven't had much trouble with flush trimming in the past. I thought most people would find that a pretty simple task. Certainly a router table helps.

003AD2C4-E7E2-4510-AFC9-E4DE4622E9C0_zpstu7fbb6z.jpg

It looks less impressive like this.

pokeme is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 53 Old 04-15-2014, 04:24 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Martycool007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,490
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrkazador View Post

You sure you used a flush trim bit? I don't see how you can mess up unless the bearing was not on the bit lol. I flush trimmed all my cabinets using a free hand router with no problems, never used one before either.

Here is the bit I used 
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000225YC/ref=oh_details_o03_s01_i00

Bondo can fix anything if you have the time. 

Yes, I am definitely sure that it was indeed a flush trim bit, but, this one had the bearing on top. So perhaps that was the issue?

I clamped a straight edge along the lines that need trimmed down, as I had been told by another member via PM that you have to use a straight edge to match the hight of the panels that you are trying to trim down to match.

The problem that I ran into, was that my bit was not long enough to reach over the 3/4" straight edge and the 3/4" MDF that I was attempting to cut, plus, the router did not have room to continue following the straight edge when it would get to the corner.

Oh well, now I will have to buy another sheet and a half of MDF! frown.gif
Martycool007 is online now  
post #33 of 53 Old 04-15-2014, 06:59 AM
AVS Special Member
 
tuxedocivic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ladysmith, BC
Posts: 4,563
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 256 Post(s)
Liked: 508
That's a pattern bit Marty. Wrong bit.

Poke me. If you can make the braces snug, I'm not sure a dado is necessary. But it certainly helps.
pokeme likes this.
tuxedocivic is online now  
post #34 of 53 Old 04-15-2014, 08:04 PM
 
pokeme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: gta Canada
Posts: 783
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 486
Just have to do the front/rear baffles and internal braces, and get the kit delivered :-( living in Canada sometimes has downsides.



I'm not sure, but i think I'll buy the dado blase or use my router and the straight edge. If I fail at that I'll do a couple dowels in the top and some between the Ports and driver.

It'll be quite some time because I'm not sure, but my kits might have been delayed due to parts too. Soooo anxious though. I'm certain even if the cabinets are really ugly they will sound amazing :-)

It's actually only the third time in the last ten years or do I've gotten back into done decent wood working tasks. Very satisfying experience so far.

3 sheets of period appear to be more than enough, might even have enough left over to build some bills for the rears....but I've got 4 new bipoles in there that work really well, buy such back the juice.

Oh can someone tell me, how far from the top of the box is the bottom of the seos? I want to closer the boxes, trace the cnc baffle, cut, paint, install cross overs and be done :-)
pokeme is offline  
post #35 of 53 Old 04-16-2014, 03:30 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Martycool007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,490
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

That's a pattern bit Marty. Wrong bit.

Poke me. If you can make the braces snug, I'm not sure a dado is necessary. But it certainly helps.

Tux, I am positive that it was a flush trim bit as it said so on the box that it came in. Can you explain what you mean by the wrong bit? Is a flush trim bit the proper way to flush trim panels?
Martycool007 is online now  
post #36 of 53 Old 04-16-2014, 03:41 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Mrkazador's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,842
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked: 250

This is a flush trim bit, you can see how the bearing rides on the bottom and trims up the top. This is what most people use on enclosures to trim the edges.

 

 

A pattern bit has the bearing on the top (shaft) to copy a pattern. This photo shows the bit on a router table so its upside down.

 

 

Mrkazador is offline  
post #37 of 53 Old 04-16-2014, 04:16 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Martycool007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,490
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrkazador View Post

This is a flush trim bit, you can see how the bearing rides on the bottom and trims up the top. This is what most people use on enclosures to trim the edges.




A pattern bit has the bearing on the top (shaft) to copy a pattern. This photo shows the bit on a router table so its upside down.




 

Yes, I was indeed using a flush trim bit as it had the bearing on the bottom. I think where I went wrong was that another member told me that the bearing has to ride a straight line, and that I should measure the gaps or differences between each panel and clamp on a straight edge the same gap difference to guide the bearing on the bit for each panel.

From the looks of that picture above, the bearing can ride in free space?? Is it not necessary to use a clamped on straight edge?
Martycool007 is online now  
post #38 of 53 Old 04-16-2014, 05:46 AM
 
pokeme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: gta Canada
Posts: 783
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

Yes, I was indeed using a flush trim bit as it had the bearing on the bottom. I think where I went wrong was that another member told me that the bearing has to ride a straight line, and that I should measure the gaps or differences between each panel and clamp on a straight edge the same gap difference to guide the bearing on the bit for each panel.

From the looks of that picture above, the bearing can ride in free space?? Is it not necessary to use a clamped on straight edge?

It's not really free space, it's the edge of what you are trimming up against. So no, you do not use a straight edge, the till must follow the contours of the thing you want to trim up to so it's as close a possible. :-) hope that makes sense.
pokeme is offline  
post #39 of 53 Old 04-16-2014, 06:45 AM
Member
 
rhodesj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 54
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Marty, why don't you post a picture of your bit? Flush trim bits can come with the bearing on either end of the bit.
rhodesj is online now  
post #40 of 53 Old 04-16-2014, 06:48 AM
AVS Special Member
 
tuxedocivic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ladysmith, BC
Posts: 4,563
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 256 Post(s)
Liked: 508
Oops, sorry Marty. Your link does show a flush trim bit. You said the bearing was on top and you used a straight edge, so I was confused. You don't need a straight edge with that bit. You just let the bearing do the work.
tuxedocivic is online now  
post #41 of 53 Old 04-16-2014, 11:59 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Mrkazador's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,842
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

From the looks of that picture above, the bearing can ride in free space?? Is it not necessary to use a clamped on straight edge?

 

You don't need a straight edge, just make sure the router base is flat and level. If you tilt it, it will make some indentations. If the bearing falls into a hole like a screw head, that will cause an indentation. Post a picture of your enclosure we could see where you went wrong. 

Mrkazador is offline  
post #42 of 53 Old 04-17-2014, 04:46 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Martycool007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,490
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 149
Wil try to past pics later, but, my problems are trimming the tops of the panels on my sub enclosures all flush so that I can get the top on them. Right now the back panel and front panel need trimming to fit the top on.

Can someone post a pic of how to hold the router for this purpose? I suppose that I would have to turn the cabinet sideways??
Martycool007 is online now  
post #43 of 53 Old 04-17-2014, 06:21 AM
AVS Special Member
 
HopefulFred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 2,760
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 134 Post(s)
Liked: 194
Do it just like the pic Mrkazdor posted. (The first pic, where you can see the operator) The hard part is keeping the base of the router from tipping/wobbling around. Plant your feet and get comfortable. Don't try to reach too far - you don't need to do it all in one pass. Try a dry run without the motor running to make sure your balance and pressure are good over the distance you want to work.
HopefulFred is offline  
post #44 of 53 Old 04-17-2014, 06:34 AM
Member
 
rhodesj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 54
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

Wil try to past pics later, but, my problems are trimming the tops of the panels on my sub enclosures all flush so that I can get the top on them. Right now the back panel and front panel need trimming to fit the top on.

Can someone post a pic of how to hold the router for this purpose? I suppose that I would have to turn the cabinet sideways??
Okay, you're saying that you don't have the top on, and you need to trim the four sides so that they're flush so that you can install the top. That is a different operation than what everyone is talking about here. Yeah, you do need a straightedge for the bearing to ride on. Or you can ignore the bearing and use your straightedge as a fence, and let the base of the router ride against the fence.
rhodesj is online now  
post #45 of 53 Old 04-17-2014, 06:34 AM
AVS Special Member
 
tuxedocivic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ladysmith, BC
Posts: 4,563
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 256 Post(s)
Liked: 508
Marty, do you mean some of the panels are misaligned and you need to shave the perimeter flat before you can attach the top? The requires a complex jig. I'd try passing it over the table say taking a hair off first. Push it through, turn if onto the next side. Push it through. Turn it onto the next side, etc. Once all four sides have been cut, it should be fairly level. Sharp blade!
tuxedocivic is online now  
post #46 of 53 Old 04-17-2014, 06:38 AM
AVS Special Member
 
PassingInterest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Dallas, Tx
Posts: 1,636
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

Wil try to past pics later, but, my problems are trimming the tops of the panels on my sub enclosures all flush so that I can get the top on them. Right now the back panel and front panel need trimming to fit the top on.

Can someone post a pic of how to hold the router for this purpose? I suppose that I would have to turn the cabinet sideways??

Method 1:

1) Tip box on its side.

2) Use a Top Bearing Flush Trim Bit in your router.

3) Clamp some scrap plywood across the piece that you want to trim, leaving only the waste exposed. Why plywood? You want something wide under your router for stability.
a) Make sure the plywood has a straight edge for the router bearing to follow.
b) Aligning the two ends should be easy, since each aligns with the shorter sides of your box tops.

4) Stabilize your router, since it can tip a little very easily and ruin your cut.
a) To stabilize your router, get an offset base, such as the one found here.
b) Or make your own, like the one shown below. Ignore the added blocks beneath the offset base in the photo below. They were added for another purpose and are removable anyway.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-HaHC9M7Fa1U/TiWQ1KHREyI/AAAAAAAADJ8/7jxQq0o-Ywc/s800/093.JPG


Method 2:

For method 2, you don't turn the box on its side and you don't need a top bearing flush trim bit, but you still need an offset base for router stability.

1) With the box upright, place a piece of plywood across the two lowest sides of your box, leaving the taller panel edges exposed.

2) Eliminate sag by either attaching stiffeners on the underside of the plywood or by clamping temporary cross braces inside the box.

3) Set the cut depth for the exact thickness of the plywood sheet underneath your router and route the waste.

I hope this was clear and helpful.

Edit: Oops, others posted while I was typing. Ignore my incoherent rambling and do what they said.
PassingInterest is online now  
post #47 of 53 Old 04-17-2014, 08:44 AM
 
pokeme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: gta Canada
Posts: 783
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 486
Dry fit, not too bad, shows I'll have to cut a couple mitres a bit closer to the edge of the panel (i cut them to size first then the 45 degree angles after as my saw binds up pretty easy on bigger cuts).

pokeme is offline  
post #48 of 53 Old 04-18-2014, 05:17 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Martycool007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,490
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

Marty, do you mean some of the panels are misaligned and you need to shave the perimeter flat before you can attach the top? The requires a complex jig. I'd try passing it over the table say taking a hair off first. Push it through, turn if onto the next side. Push it through. Turn it onto the next side, etc. Once all four sides have been cut, it should be fairly level. Sharp blade!

Yes Tux, it's the top edges of the enclosure that I was having trouble with trying to mount the top. Unfortunately, once again, I ruined the box trying to mess with the flush trim bit with no straight edge frown.gif

I got some additional MDF yesterday, and will finish this last box tomorrow or might wait until Monday depending on time.
Martycool007 is online now  
post #49 of 53 Old 04-18-2014, 05:26 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Martycool007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,490
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by PassingInterest View Post

Method 1:

1) Tip box on its side.

2) Use a Top Bearing Flush Trim Bit in your router.

3) Clamp some scrap plywood across the piece that you want to trim, leaving only the waste exposed. Why plywood? You want something wide under your router for stability.
a) Make sure the plywood has a straight edge for the router bearing to follow.
b) Aligning the two ends should be easy, since each aligns with the shorter sides of your box tops.

4) Stabilize your router, since it can tip a little very easily and ruin your cut.
a) To stabilize your router, get an offset base, such as the one found here.
b) Or make your own, like the one shown below. Ignore the added blocks beneath the offset base in the photo below. They were added for another purpose and are removable anyway.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-HaHC9M7Fa1U/TiWQ1KHREyI/AAAAAAAADJ8/7jxQq0o-Ywc/s800/093.JPG


Method 2:

For method 2, you don't turn the box on its side and you don't need a top bearing flush trim bit, but you still need an offset base for router stability.

1) With the box upright, place a piece of plywood across the two lowest sides of your box, leaving the taller panel edges exposed.

2) Eliminate sag by either attaching stiffeners on the underside of the plywood or by clamping temporary cross braces inside the box.

3) Set the cut depth for the exact thickness of the plywood sheet underneath your router and route the waste.

I hope this was clear and helpful.

Edit: Oops, others posted while I was typing. Ignore my incoherent rambling and do what they said.

I got this! Now the hard part will be measuring the difference between the lowest panels and the other good panels. The differences might be too small to accurately measure, not sure, but, doesn't matter at this point because I ruined the enclosure and am starting all over tomorrow.

For me, it all goes back to measuring correctly, and knowing how to cut accurately, both of which I am having trouble with. For measuring, how do you know if you cut on the line, or leave the line, or take the line completely off? Someone tried explaining this the other day, and I did not get a good feel for this so I want to ask again.

Thanks for the suggestions here guys! I am going to do some experimenting / trail & error on this botched box so that I can hone my skills!
Martycool007 is online now  
post #50 of 53 Old 04-18-2014, 06:09 AM
AVS Special Member
 
PassingInterest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Dallas, Tx
Posts: 1,636
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 24
What are you cutting with?

Also, you can't assume that your wood is square straight from the store. You have to check it for square and square it up as needed.

And how ruined is the box? Pictures might help us see the problem.
PassingInterest is online now  
post #51 of 53 Old 04-18-2014, 06:10 AM
 
pokeme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: gta Canada
Posts: 783
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

I got this! Now the hard part will be measuring the difference between the lowest panels and the other good panels. The differences might be too small to accurately measure, not sure, but, doesn't matter at this point because I ruined the enclosure and am starting all over tomorrow.

For me, it all goes back to measuring correctly, and knowing how to cut accurately, both of which I am having trouble with. For measuring, how do you know if you cut on the line, or leave the line, or take the line completely off? Someone tried explaining this the other day, and I did not get a good feel for this so I want to ask again.

Thanks for the suggestions here guys! I am going to do some experimenting / trail & error on this botched box so that I can hone my skills!

I get down on my knees in front of my saw and ensure i just eliminate the line with my blade lined up to the edge of it. It also has one of those Goofy karts on it, but I use it to get me in the ballpark and to the rest by eye. It really comes down to doing it the same way again and again and knowing if you measured to cut on, before or between lines.

I'm on loads of pain meds, so I'm sure you can figure it out if I can.

Ps- I also make sure my fence is as square to the blade as possible with a square and adjust as required. (i have a cheap saw, if you have a food one with a good fence you don't need it).
pokeme is offline  
post #52 of 53 Old 04-18-2014, 06:55 AM
Member
 
wassub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 32
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post


I got this! Now the hard part will be measuring the difference between the lowest panels and the other good panels. The differences might be too small to accurately measure, not sure, but, doesn't matter at this point because I ruined the enclosure and am starting all over tomorrow.

For me, it all goes back to measuring correctly, and knowing how to cut accurately, both of which I am having trouble with. For measuring, how do you know if you cut on the line, or leave the line, or take the line completely off? Someone tried explaining this the other day, and I did not get a good feel for this so I want to ask again.

Thanks for the suggestions here guys! I am going to do some experimenting / trail & error on this botched box so that I can hone my skills!

 

Hi Marty,

 

I didn't go back through the entire thread so I'm not sure what advice you've been given already, so at the risk of repetition and redundancy, here are a few tips that you may find useful.

 

 

1.) Your table saw fence needs to be square to the blade.  Period.  Make sure this is true before proceeding.

2.) For box construction, consistency is usually more important than accuracy.

3.) The best way to create consistent panels for box construction is to make all similar cuts at the same time (i.e. set up the saw once and cut every piece for that size at that time).  Then, even if each panel is slightly off from your desired measurement, your box will still end up square.

4.) Depending upon your box design, there are typically very few measurements and therefore very few saw adjustments.  This is good.

5.) Draw any required lines with a sharp pencil.  You want to cut on either side of this line, not in the middle.  On one side of the line is your waste piece, where the saw kerf will be. Typically, the desired piece is between the saw blade and fence. Assuming your fence is on the right side of the blade, the pencil line would line up with the right outside of the saw blade.

6.) The less you adjust your fence, the better.  You could make a rectangular box and all required braces with only two fence adjustments.

wassub is offline  
post #53 of 53 Old 04-20-2014, 05:21 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Monkey_Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: East Lansing, Michigan
Posts: 1,176
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

I would not recommend a flush trim bit for a router for any armatures as I tried using one on my MartySub #4 enclosure and it completely ruined it! Now it has huge pits all down the top of the side piece that I was attempting to flush trim. I never could figure out how to make it work, or how I can salvage this enclosure! frown.gif

Hmmm, huh?!? Trim bits are super easy to use assuming all six sides of the box are in place and the panel your pilot bearing is running on is slightly recessed to the edge you're trimming. Once the trim bit is done doing its thing, the edge you're trimming will be flush to the panel your pilot bearing is running on. The only danger with a hand held router is tilting it away from you. This will ruin your edge. I only use a hand held router and to help me I made a larger base. When running the base of the router over cutouts or over openings it's easy for the router to tilt. When a trim bit is used your edge will be tight enough not to need bondo or sparkle to hide the seam with duratex.



pokeme likes this.
Monkey_Man is offline  
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off