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post #1 of 11 Old 04-13-2014, 07:12 AM - Thread Starter
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I would like to go with two seperate subwoofers in my home theatre, since I recently purchases a Denon 4311 and have the sub equalization feature on the receiver. After many hours of browsing this site, I think two of these may fit the bill nice:

http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-15-ultimax-subwoofer-and-cabinet-package--300-7097

 

I have a few questions regarding the best way to power two seperate sub enclosures. I like the idea of an external amplifier like the Behringer  EP4000 but would purchase plate amplifiers and build them into the subwoofer if the consensus is that its a better way to go. My questions are:

1) Can one Behringer EP4000 be used to power two seperate sub enclosures? If not, is there another amp that would be more appropriate? Is there an easier solution I am missing?

2) Is it safe to assume my Denon 4311 will take care of all sub equalization and I don't need to worry about DSP sub amplifiers?

3) Would the sub builds require a High Pass Filter to eliminate frequencies below 18 Hz so the amplifier does not attempt to reproduce bass that is really low (10Hz) resulting in the amplifier working beyond its limits?

4) What gauge of speaker would be typical to use? I have never used a passive subwoofer, I imagine the speaker wire needs to be fairly substantial any links?

 

Before I browsed this site I was just going to purchase two Paradigm Ultracubes. I think the above set-up could turn out better and I might even save some money as well! Thanks!

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post #2 of 11 Old 04-13-2014, 07:49 AM
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Pro amps are much more economical.

Get a Behringer 3000DSP (or 6000DSP and have plenty of headroom left in the tank) which will enable you to run two or more subs and be able to equalize each independently to include phase and time adjustment.

Your receiver can only do so much. The EQ in the amp will be a much more comprehensive form of adjustment. You will also be able to set a HPF among other things.

You will save money and only have to run speaker wire to each sub.

10 or 12 gauge wire is plenty and is cheap.

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post #3 of 11 Old 04-13-2014, 07:53 AM
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Another vote for either the iNuke series or the EP4000. Both are great options.

Also I would not rely solely on XT32 to EQ the subs. Something like the iNuke DSP, Minidsp, or BFD would be better to start with. The AVR EQ can get you your final tweaks afterward.
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post #4 of 11 Old 04-13-2014, 08:47 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pauljones View Post

I would like to go with two seperate subwoofers in my home theatre, since I recently purchases a Denon 4311 and have the sub equalization feature on the receiver. After many hours of browsing this site, I think two of these may fit the bill nice:
http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-15-ultimax-subwoofer-and-cabinet-package--300-7097

I have a few questions regarding the best way to power two seperate sub enclosures. I like the idea of an external amplifier like the Behringer  EP4000 but would purchase plate amplifiers and build them into the subwoofer if the consensus is that its a better way to go. My questions are:
1) Can one Behringer EP4000 be used to power two seperate sub enclosures? If not, is there another amp that would be more appropriate? Is there an easier solution I am missing?

An EP4000 can easiily power two sub enclosures. How much power you need depends on speaker efficiency, listening distance, and preferences for loudness. If you take the common approach of trying to get an amp that will fully exploit the drivers, you are looking for amps in the 800-1600 watt (4 ohms) rms range.
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2) Is it safe to assume my Denon 4311 will take care of all sub equalization and I don't need to worry about DSP sub amplifiers?

IMO, no. IMO 2 subs are a great opportunity to get improved eveness of distribution of bass in the room, and it is ideal to front end each sub with a parametric eq.
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3) Would the sub builds require a High Pass Filter to eliminate frequencies below 18 Hz so the amplifier does not attempt to reproduce bass that is really low (10Hz) resulting in the amplifier working beyond its limits?

IMO, the thing to worry about more is overdriving the subs in that frequency range. Since I already recommended parametric eq, do the frequency contouring there.

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4) What gauge of speaker would be typical to use? I have never used a passive subwoofer, I imagine the speaker wire needs to be fairly substantial any links?

For reasonable lengths the "one size fits all" recommendation of 12 or 14 gauge is fine. The first order effect of too-small speaker wire shows up in the frequency response, and since you are going to equalize that anyhow, you have a lot of latitude in this area.
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Before I browsed this site I was just going to purchase two Paradigm Ultracubes. I think the above set-up could turn out better and I might even save some money as well! Thanks!


All other tings being equal, subwoofer air-compressing capability scales with the cube of the subwoofer driver diameter. That gives you a doubling if you compare 12" drivers to 15" drivers.
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post #5 of 11 Old 04-13-2014, 11:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the feedback.

 

Glad to know the Ep4000 or the inuke 6000DSP will have no problem running 2 of these subs:

http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-15-ultimax-subwoofer-and-cabinet-package--300-7097?AID=1457483&PID=6155355&SID=lpzklj6d4o2w

 

So my subs will work something like follows:

Take the two rca sub outs of my Denon 4311, use rca to xlr adapter cables and plug into each channel of 2 channel amp. Run 12 gauge speaker wires from the amp to each of the passive subs I will build using the above link. Run the Audessey Sub EQ and hope for the best.

 

I am still a little confused concerning using an amp with DSP versus an amp without. The EP4000 has no DSP so I would then rely solely on my Denon 4311 to take care of sub equalization. If I bought the inuke 6000 I would have DSP, although I have no idea how to use it for sub equalization.

 

I also hate the way the inuke 6000DSP looks, am I right to assume there is an equivalent QSC amp?

 

After reading the feedback in this thread, my question is: What are some good amplifier options if I would to drive two seperate subs with one amp. The amp would get the two sub inputs from my Denon 4311.

 

Is a DSP amp a must? If it is, what options other than an inuke 6000 are there?

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post #6 of 11 Old 04-13-2014, 12:37 PM
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It is not a must and if you don't know what to do with it then it won't do you any good at all. I would look into getting a USB microphone like a UMIK-1 or UMM-6 and use REW with a laptop to take measurements. REW will recommend EQ filters to use with your iNuke.

If you do not want to go through the hassle then going with a non-DSP iNuke or an EP4000 would be a good option. However many will highly recommend you learn how to measure your room and use the DSP to get the best results.
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post #7 of 11 Old 04-13-2014, 12:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Can anyone recomment a good DSP amp to drive these two subs other than the iNUKE, preferably one that looks fairly classic with a smoother front face (fantastic if it is in black). Thanks.

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post #8 of 11 Old 04-13-2014, 01:07 PM
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Any reason you want avoid an external DSP solution like the miniDSP? It has more capability and flexibility then most internal DSP's and costs less.
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post #9 of 11 Old 04-13-2014, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pauljones View Post

Can anyone recomment a good DSP amp to drive these two subs other than the iNUKE, preferably one that looks fairly classic with a smoother front face (fantastic if it is in black). Thanks.

QSC offers the amazingly versatile re-config'able, PLD series, with the lowest model rated at 2 channels 800w continuous @4ohm.

These have what appears to be a wonderfully nice DSP section.

QSC

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Flat, Deep, Clean, Linear, and Loud
------------------------------------
Active 16.8kw, 7.3 system
(3)Seaton Cat12C up front, (4)QSC K8 sides/rears
(2)Seaton SubM-HP, (4)18" IB
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post #10 of 11 Old 04-13-2014, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pauljones View Post

Can anyone recomment a good DSP amp to drive these two subs other than the iNUKE, preferably one that looks fairly classic with a smoother front face (fantastic if it is in black). Thanks.

Look at the Peavey IPR2 series of amplifiers. The IPR2-3000 would probably get the job done, but I would be more interested in the 5000 or 7500 series. They are black.

As mgt90 said you could look at the minidsp 2x4 (balanced) as an option as well.
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post #11 of 11 Old 04-13-2014, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pauljones View Post

Can anyone recomment a good DSP amp to drive these two subs other than the iNUKE, preferably one that looks fairly classic with a smoother front face (fantastic if it is in black). Thanks.

There are many other DSP options, but none with the bang for the buck as the iNukes. Also, I find the DSP software the easiest to use in the Behringers.

They are not as ugly when you see them in person and in an equipment rack.

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