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post #1 of 48 Old 04-22-2014, 09:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Long story (start here). I was planning on a dual subwoofer build using the SI D4's and a iNuke 300 DSP. Asked permission and was told flat out no.

Was given permission to build one sub better than the one we have (eD A2-300) but not TOO much bigger wink.gif.

As such I am looking for the best I can do with a 6 cubic foot box. Ported or Sealed. Dual Opposed, Single Driver, etc. Want to still utilize the iNuke 3000 DSP if I can

Here are the first things the pop into my mind.

1. Ported dual opposed 2 SI 15" D4's @ 2 ohm w 1000 watts x 2 in a 6 cubic foot box

2. Sealed dual opposed 2 SI 15" D4's @ 2 ohm w 1000 watts x 2 in a 6 cubic foot box (not sure how much polyfill to add or how to add that in WinISD)

3. Single 12" TC Sounds LMS-R @ 2 ohm w 1000 watts x 2 (each voicecoil connected independent) in a 6 cubic foot box (could possibly go with a 16" sonotube here if not over 45" tall).

4. Single 12" TC Sounds LMS-R @ 4 ohm w 3000 watts x 1 (amp bridged) in a 6 cubic foot box (could possibly go with a 16" sonotube here if not over 45" tall).

5. Option 3 or Option 4 sealed


Would love some thought/help/WinISD graphs....

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post #2 of 48 Old 04-22-2014, 03:27 PM
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I'd vote #2... but that's just me.

How do you get: "2 ohm 1000 watts x 2"?
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post #3 of 48 Old 04-22-2014, 03:30 PM
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I pick option 6: Trade in wife for one who doesn't make you ask for permission to build something that makes you happy.

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post #4 of 48 Old 04-22-2014, 04:06 PM
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Option 7: if there is an empty attic above that or a closed crawl space below put in infinite baffle subs. As many and as big as you want and duct them into the room above/around tv area.
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post #5 of 48 Old 04-22-2014, 04:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post

I'd vote #2... but that's just me.

How do you get: "2 ohm 1000 watts x 2"?

The iNuke 3000 has been measured at 1000 wpc x 2 @ 2 ohms. I take the D4's which are 4 ohms and wire each one for 2 ohms then run each sub off its own channel on the iNuke

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I pick option 6: Trade in wife for one who doesn't make you ask for permission to build something that makes you happy.

Yeah, I figured I would get that kinda response.... but c'mon man, seriously? Its not just me and then her doing whatever the f I tell her. Its a partnership and it requires compromise. Can't just always get what I want.

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Option 7: if there is an empty attic above that or a closed crawl space below put in infinite baffle subs. As many and as big as you want and duct them into the room above/around tv area.

Sorry man, look at the first hyperlink. Got nothing above behind or around to build a IB in. Wish I did.

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post #6 of 48 Old 04-22-2014, 05:16 PM
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I did look at first hyperlink. Maybe i missed something due to being on mobile but it wasnt mentioned in the first few posts. Ah well would have been a great option.
What about a folded horn sub. You could build two along the length of the wall as the base to an entertainment center and the base to shelves on each side of ent. cente. have the mouths open on either side of tv. Done right it would get high WAF and get you very close to 15hz at high output levels cheaply. Of course good woodwirking skills for a matching entertainment center and shelving would be required.
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post #7 of 48 Old 04-22-2014, 05:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackoper View Post

I did look at first hyperlink. Maybe i missed something due to being on mobile but it wasnt mentioned in the first few posts. Ah well would have been a great option.

Yeah it woulda been nice. But its simply not possible. There is a VERY SMALL chance I can pull something off with the loft above this area as it is my "mancave" and I might be able to put boxes up there that fire down into the HT area.

The issue with that is that I would basically need to build boxes around so the subs so its just like hiding them but I dont think my wife will go for it but I will pitch it later tonight.
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What about a folded horn sub. You could build two along the length of the wall as the base to an entertainment center and flanked on each side by shelves. have the mouths open on either side of tv. Done right it would get high WAF and get you very close to 15hz at high output levels cheaply. Of course good woodwirking skills for a matching entertainment center and shelving would be required.

Got an example as I am not really following..

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post #8 of 48 Old 04-22-2014, 05:33 PM
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What about dual subs that don't look like subs? Two Marty cubes like either of these
y6apaju9.jpg
e3every2.jpg

Or this
ra9e5y7u.jpg
Put some veneer on it and should pass the waf inspection.
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post #9 of 48 Old 04-22-2014, 05:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok so if I am able to give up some of my loft closet and also the corner with a half wall on it here is what I can do

Closet loses 2 shelves and box is 36 long x 17 deep x 28 tall.

Loft would be 36 tall x 28 deep x 17 long.

So that would be the same box but totally different configurations....

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There exists, for everyone, a sentence - a series of words - that has the power to destroy you. Another sentence exists, another series of words, that could heal you. If you're lucky you will get the 2nd, but you can be certain of getting the 1st. - Philip K. Dick

 

 

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post #10 of 48 Old 04-22-2014, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post


Got an example as I am not really following..

Something like this guy did except on a smaller scale and use the horn subs as the bottom section to a nice looking entertainment center with book shelves to either side.

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post #11 of 48 Old 04-22-2014, 05:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post

What about dual subs that don't look like subs? Two Marty cubes like either of these

Or this
Put some veneer on it and should pass the waf inspection.

Unforunately that just cant happen from a space standpoint. The endtable we have now is WAY to far away to run a speaker wire to right, I am already not happy about putting it under the brand new carpet.

I think its either one really good sub or 2 in my loft area (which honestly dont see that flying but will try).

Here is where I "might" be able to do something. Here is the ceiling in the HT area:



And here is what is above it in my loft. Now my loft does NOT go the full width of the room underneath, it shares the corner with our master bathroom so I cant put both subs firing into the corners that I can see.

I could put one in the corner where that bookshelf is and basically make it look like its some sort of ducting by putting drywall on it and the whole 9 yards.



Here is the closet where I could probably lose 2 shelves total again it isnt totally in the corner of the room.





Now knowing I would need to actually build boxes for these, would you still recommend this? I also have NO IDEA how I would get cabling from the AVR to the amp, let alone from the amp to the speakers as its a LOT of distance to cover...

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There exists, for everyone, a sentence - a series of words - that has the power to destroy you. Another sentence exists, another series of words, that could heal you. If you're lucky you will get the 2nd, but you can be certain of getting the 1st. - Philip K. Dick

 

 

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post #12 of 48 Old 04-22-2014, 05:44 PM
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post #13 of 48 Old 04-22-2014, 06:32 PM
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theres a lot of valuable real estate along that front wall.  Why not push those speakers out a bit further to right and left and use the space.  Or put the subs in the corner, and frame them in with 2 x4s and drywall and then use some acoustically transparent material along the front.  

 

Look, i get it about compromising with the wife....though you gotta admit that option number 6 was kinda funny / you probably knew it was coming.  

 

I've been married for 4 years, and when the wife started asking me "how many more of these huge subwoofer things are you gonna make" I simply reminded her that I am 50% of this marriage yet I only get about 10-20% of the space in the master bedroom closet.  That pretty much did the trick.  ;)

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post #14 of 48 Old 04-22-2014, 07:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post

2x 18" zv4 d2 in 6 cubic feet dual opposed.

Cost prohibitive. I have at max 520 to spend on drivers... a single driver alone is more than that.

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Originally Posted by kevings View Post

theres a lot of valuable real estate along that front wall.  Why not push those speakers out a bit further to right and left and use the space.  

Tried that, wont do it, I also dont have much give on my speaker cables to move them out farther. And I cant afford to buy more cause there spensive
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Or put the subs in the corner, and frame them in with 2 x4s and drywall and then use some acoustically transparent material along the front.  

Tried that too. Cant get in the way of the vents in that corner (our heat/cooling) is right there. I also cant do a long skinny box either.... I am kinda "boxed" in tongue.gif..
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Look, i get it about compromising with the wife....though you gotta admit that option number 6 was kinda funny / you probably knew it was coming.  

Yeah I did, but if thats all you've got to contribute to the thread, why bother. At least give me some attempt at a "real" solution as well.
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Originally Posted by kevings View Post

I've been married for 4 years, and when the wife started asking me "how many more of these huge subwoofer things are you gonna make" I simply reminded her that I am 50% of this marriage yet I only get about 10-20% of the space in the master bedroom closet.  That pretty much did the trick.  wink.gif

LOL. Wish it was that easy.

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There exists, for everyone, a sentence - a series of words - that has the power to destroy you. Another sentence exists, another series of words, that could heal you. If you're lucky you will get the 2nd, but you can be certain of getting the 1st. - Philip K. Dick

 

 

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post #15 of 48 Old 04-22-2014, 07:48 PM - Thread Starter
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So here is what I see on paper..

6 cubic foot ported box. 2 SI 15 D4's each sub wired at 2 ohms. Connect each woofer to one channel of the iNuke 3000 DSP. Each driver gets 1000 watts.

Here is how that models out or at least how I "think" it models out....






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There exists, for everyone, a sentence - a series of words - that has the power to destroy you. Another sentence exists, another series of words, that could heal you. If you're lucky you will get the 2nd, but you can be certain of getting the 1st. - Philip K. Dick

 

 

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post #16 of 48 Old 04-22-2014, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post

What about dual subs that don't look like subs? Two Marty cubes like either of these
y6apaju9.jpg
Put some veneer on it and should pass the waf inspection.

Not sure if this is is your, but great design and job.

Question though, where is the port/slot?? Any other photos?
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post #17 of 48 Old 04-22-2014, 08:17 PM
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Just the two pics I posted above. THe port would be out the back so you can't put it right against a wall. Not my build, just saw it on another thread. They used a sealed infinity driver. THere are many ways to hide the sub. ENd tables, etc.
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post #18 of 48 Old 04-22-2014, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post

Just the two pics I posted above. THe port would be out the back so you can't put it right against a wall. Not my build, just saw it on another thread. They used a sealed infinity driver. THere are many ways to hide the sub. ENd tables, etc.

Found it something similar with an 18. It appears the slots are on the bottom with the sub. Wonder if this affects the sound at all? Neat design though.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1516724/martysub-flatpacks/960#post_24431426
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post #19 of 48 Old 04-22-2014, 08:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by likelinus View Post

Found it. It appears the slots are on the bottom with the sub. Wonder if this affects the sound at all? Neat design though.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1516724/martysub-flatpacks/960#post_24431426

Not to be mean, but lets try to keep it on topic smile.gif.

In regards to your question I will answer it. I was looking at a MartyCube myself so I contacted that guy about that design and he said that it was working fine with no port noise or issue due to being downfiring.

I may end up with a Martycube just like it but I am thinking dual opposed vented will provide more output but thats me.

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There exists, for everyone, a sentence - a series of words - that has the power to destroy you. Another sentence exists, another series of words, that could heal you. If you're lucky you will get the 2nd, but you can be certain of getting the 1st. - Philip K. Dick

 

 

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post #20 of 48 Old 04-22-2014, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by likelinus View Post

Found it. It appears the slots are on the bottom with the sub. Wonder if this affects the sound at all? Neat design though.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1516724/martysub-flatpacks/960#post_24431426

Not to be mean, but lets try to keep it on topic smile.gif.

In regards to your question I will answer it. I was looking at a MartyCube myself so I contacted that guy about that design and he said that it was working fine with no port noise or issue due to being downfiring.

I may end up with a Martycube just like it but I am thinking dual opposed vented will provide more output but thats me.

Based on your graph the cube would be quite similar with one driver then your dual opposed. Either way I think you would be very happy.
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post #21 of 48 Old 04-22-2014, 09:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post

Based on your graph the cube would be quite similar with one driver then your dual opposed. Either way I think you would be very happy.

The thing I do like about the cube though is that I can make it downfiring and as such no cone area for the kido to touch, same with ports. Cant stuff anything in them.

But still not sure...

Trying to get decently flat response at a lowish cost. The cube allows me to possibly make it look more WAF appropriate...

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There exists, for everyone, a sentence - a series of words - that has the power to destroy you. Another sentence exists, another series of words, that could heal you. If you're lucky you will get the 2nd, but you can be certain of getting the 1st. - Philip K. Dick

 

 

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post #22 of 48 Old 04-22-2014, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevings View Post

I've been married for 4 years, and when the wife started asking me "how many more of these huge subwoofer things are you gonna make" I simply reminded her that I am 50% of this marriage yet I only get about 10-20% of the space in the master bedroom closet.  That pretty much did the trick.  wink.gif
Bring in a car engine on a stand and start to rebuild it in the living room. "Sorry honey, you wouldn't let me have the subs, so I decided to get a new hobby".
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post #23 of 48 Old 04-22-2014, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post

I also have NO IDEA how I would get cabling from the AVR to the amp, let alone from the amp to the speakers as its a LOT of distance to cover...

For wires, what about this?

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2367761&filterName=Category
(Perhaps a cheaper one from walmart etc, if it doesn't work take it back wink.gif )
Finding an RF unit that's good for down to 10hz etc might be tricky (potentially).


You may also need an RCA to XLR signal converter/booster if the inuke needs more voltage input than the RF or AVR can do:
http://www.parts-express.com/art-cleanboxpro-stereo-balanced-unbalanced-converter--245-868

I've pumped 5000watts through two 50ft spans of 12awg (100ft total span). It works fine.
Try not to use RCA cables longer than 6ft.


Vented would be loudest, but it's more woodworking to contend with.
The new found bass will cause all sorts of new things to rattle. So plan for that in advance wink.gif
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post #24 of 48 Old 04-23-2014, 04:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post

For wires, what about this?

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2367761&filterName=Category
(Perhaps a cheaper one from walmart etc, if it doesn't work take it back wink.gif )
Finding an RF unit that's good for down to 10hz etc might be tricky (potentially).


You may also need an RCA to XLR signal converter/booster if the inuke needs more voltage input than the RF or AVR can do:
http://www.parts-express.com/art-cleanboxpro-stereo-balanced-unbalanced-converter--245-868

I've pumped 5000watts through two 50ft spans of 12awg (100ft total span). It works fine.
Try not to use RCA cables longer than 6ft.


Vented would be loudest, but it's more woodworking to contend with.
The new found bass will cause all sorts of new things to rattle. So plan for that in advance wink.gif

Yeah the IB idea got shot down instantly as well.

So back to my original dilemmia.

I am thinking the MartyCube might be the best bet, either that or the dual SI 15 build...

The dual SI build can handle more wattage before I hit cone excursion (2000 watts) wherease the daytons seem to bottom out around 1300. When you graph that out the SI's have +4 db @ 20hz even with rolloff in a similar box to the Dayton 18". And with EQ added in to help flatten things out that difference should be MUCH more.

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There exists, for everyone, a sentence - a series of words - that has the power to destroy you. Another sentence exists, another series of words, that could heal you. If you're lucky you will get the 2nd, but you can be certain of getting the 1st. - Philip K. Dick

 

 

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post #25 of 48 Old 04-23-2014, 05:13 AM
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You could do a ftw21 in 6 cu ft sealed
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post #26 of 48 Old 04-23-2014, 05:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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You could do a ftw21 in 6 cu ft sealed


Bit more than I want to spend on a single driver.

I can get 2 D4 SI 15's for 345 shipped to my door. I am thinking this may be the route I take simply because the graphs look REALLY good and I am pretty sure I can EQ it to get some additional SPL without going over xmas.

Otherwise the Martycube looks good as well...

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There exists, for everyone, a sentence - a series of words - that has the power to destroy you. Another sentence exists, another series of words, that could heal you. If you're lucky you will get the 2nd, but you can be certain of getting the 1st. - Philip K. Dick

 

 

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post #27 of 48 Old 04-23-2014, 06:29 AM
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Right now I'm using 4 TC Epic 12s ported and it's crazy. I do have 4 18s on the way though so...

But if I were you I'd go with the infinity. You'll get more displacement for the dollar over the SI 15. Buy 6-8 for $350-$450. Make a bunch of 1.5 to 2 cu ft sealed cabinets and let em rip. If later on you can get more wiggle room from your wife then port them and be in awe.

Dan
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post #28 of 48 Old 04-23-2014, 06:50 AM
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If you are trying to keep it smaller, and still want the output, then my vote is for a passive radiator design.
CSS SDX12 with a pair of APR12s should be pretty nice.

Of course, you can always do a similar 15" version for more output. or since they are smaller (what I'm running right now), maybe a pair of the 12" options.
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post #29 of 48 Old 04-23-2014, 07:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by saabracer23 View Post

Right now I'm using 4 TC Epic 12s ported and it's crazy. I do have 4 18s on the way though so...

But if I were you I'd go with the infinity. You'll get more displacement for the dollar over the SI 15. Buy 6-8 for $350-$450. Make a bunch of 1.5 to 2 cu ft sealed cabinets and let em rip. If later on you can get more wiggle room from your wife then port them and be in awe.

Dan

Too many boxes, aint happening. She doesnt want any more stuff to clutter up the room (her words). One bigger box in a corner she can deal with.

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Originally Posted by Anthony_Gomez View Post

If you are trying to keep it smaller, and still want the output, then my vote is for a passive radiator design.
CSS SDX12 with a pair of APR12s should be pretty nice.

Of course, you can always do a similar 15" version for more output. or since they are smaller (what I'm running right now), maybe a pair of the 12" options.

I looked at the 12's but in one box they had LESS output than the SI 15's from what I could see modeled.

I am currently having to reformat my laptop and so I cant model anything right now, hopefully by lunch I will have it wiped and reformatted so I can be looking at the passives.

Any particular reason you say go with the passive radiator design over just a sub and some ports? I know that they work about the same, but passives cost much more than just using a slot loaded port.

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post #30 of 48 Old 04-23-2014, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post

Any particular reason you say go with the passive radiator design over just a sub and some ports? I know that they work about the same, but passives cost much more than just using a slot loaded port.

Passives are a means to tune a box lower than what is practical with ports. You wouldn't use them with all boxes, but if you want low tuning out of a small box, with a lot of output, you won't find a satisfactory ported design, and this is where passives come into play.
Right now, I have a high excursion 15" ( 68mm P-P) in a ~ 22.5" cube, double thick box tuned to 18 Hz with 2x18" Passives. This design is impossible (practically speaking) with ports.
The SDX is one of those drivers where designs put you into a small low tuned box needing passives. I believe some of the TC sounds drivers don't port as well and do better with passives too (though porting will work).
Passives do cost though, but they also don't take up much internal volume either, so you have effectively more internal volume for the same external box size (depending on how you build your box)
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