Low power amps for SEOS designs - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 46 Old 05-01-2014, 08:49 AM - Thread Starter
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With the new trend in SEOS main speaker designs, are 200wpc amps sufficiant. I own three Outlaw Audio that are 200/300wpc 8ohm/4ohm. The M-200's.

I guess i'll ask it another way, what are you guys powering these designs with. I'm most interested in twoway passive XO with 15" JBL 2226H's ......

Just planning for the future....

As of Jan 2017, im still looking for (1) Outlaw M-200 mono amp, and a used Marantz 7010
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post #2 of 46 Old 05-01-2014, 09:00 AM
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You know that these are generally 97dBish sensitive, right? How loud are you planning to play your music? Yes, 200wpc is sufficient unless you're playing at really really high volumes and EQ the crap out of the bass -e.g. +12dB at 20hz or something.
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post #3 of 46 Old 05-01-2014, 09:23 AM
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you can power them with almost anything

most AVRs will be fine, same with your outlaws

i run mine off a XPA-3 and thats only because i happen to own it, the AVR (onkyo 818) is fine, Im pretty sure Gorilla83 runs his Sentinals off the same AVR and they will play to stupid levels without issue
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post #4 of 46 Old 05-01-2014, 09:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Plus XO@80hz or so........

As of Jan 2017, im still looking for (1) Outlaw M-200 mono amp, and a used Marantz 7010
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post #5 of 46 Old 05-01-2014, 09:52 AM
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I run my cheap thrills off an IPR1600, ~280wpc @ 8ohms, and they take the power without a sweat.

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post #6 of 46 Old 05-01-2014, 09:55 AM
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I ran mine off of my Sony 100 watts per channel AVR and they played reference with no problems and super clean as well.

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post #7 of 46 Old 05-01-2014, 10:32 AM
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With the level of overboard in this section of AVS, I've never understood why everyone says we don't need 500wpc on mains....I also don't need 4 18s and 5000watts on LFE but that's the norm around here.


I'm planning inuke3000's for my SEOS/TD12m LCR
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post #8 of 46 Old 05-01-2014, 11:33 AM
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Well, with LFE if you want reference levels at 5hz you need lots of power.

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post #9 of 46 Old 05-01-2014, 11:37 AM
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just a simple number demonstration...
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post #10 of 46 Old 05-01-2014, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Well, with LFE if you want reference levels at 5hz you need lots of power.

I know, but if I'm going all out, I'm gonna do it across the board.
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post #11 of 46 Old 05-01-2014, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgveteran View Post

With the new trend in SEOS main speaker designs, are 200wpc amps sufficiant. I own three Outlaw Audio that are 200/300wpc 8ohm/4ohm. The M-200's.

I guess i'll ask it another way, what are you guys powering these designs with. I'm most interested in twoway passive XO with 15" JBL 2226H's ......

Just planning for the future....

If you get the 97db sensitive ones, 200 watts per channel will give you over 110dB from two speakers from 12 feet away. 

Yeah I would think that should do it...
http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

 

The only reason you should need a different amp is if you run reference levels and your amps can't handle that much power being pulled from every channel.

But if you're running speakers that effecient, even 80 watts will hit reference level.

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post #12 of 46 Old 05-01-2014, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony_Gomez View Post

just a simple number demonstration...

 

lol you beat me to it. I love that tool. I use it all the time.

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post #13 of 46 Old 05-01-2014, 12:32 PM
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Only thing it does not take into consideration is power compression and that can be as high as 9db. A calculator can't take that into consideration, because it will be different for each speaker and it will differ depending on how hard the system is pushed. Power compression usually starts at 1/10th rated wattage.

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post #14 of 46 Old 05-01-2014, 01:01 PM - Thread Starter
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They are nice little mono's that at 4ohms can put out 300watts, fanless and paid for......

I'm hoping to do dual 15's and a SEOS 12 or 15

As of Jan 2017, im still looking for (1) Outlaw M-200 mono amp, and a used Marantz 7010
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post #15 of 46 Old 05-01-2014, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Power compression usually starts at 1/10th rated wattage.
I'd like to see info backing that up. Power compression is a big deal with low efficiency (typical home) speakers but I don't believe as much an issue with high efficiency speakers at home listening levels.
http://sound.westhost.com/articles/pwr-vs-eff.htm
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post #16 of 46 Old 05-01-2014, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony_Gomez View Post

I'd like to see info backing that up. Power compression is a big deal with low efficiency (typical home) speakers but I don't believe as much an issue with high efficiency speakers at home listening levels.
http://sound.westhost.com/articles/pwr-vs-eff.htm

Yes it is more of a problem for low sensitivity speakers. It is also why I listed the qualifier of depending on the system and volume level. You asked for proof and the link you provided talks about power compression. 3db does not sound like a whole lot, but when it takes double the power to get 3DB, it adds up. Most of the speakers here are not high sensitivity, if you consider high sensitivity to start at 95db and up. My SEOS-12 with DNA360 and TD12M would not make the cut for high sensitivity.

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post #17 of 46 Old 05-01-2014, 02:29 PM
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I was playing a pair of Yorkville Unity U215's at 110 dBs in my room last night. They are 4 ohm 98 dBs speakers and my AVR is a Sony 2800ES. it is rated at 100 watts per channel into 8 ohms so yes, a 200 watt amp can play the SEOS loud! 110 dBs of stereo music is loud and that was measured off of a RS meter which means it was louder even. I sit 12 feet away or 4 meters.

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post #18 of 46 Old 05-01-2014, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I was playing a pair of Yorkville Unity U215's at 110 dBs in my room last night. They are 4 ohm 98 dBs speakers and my AVR is a Sony 2800ES. it is rated at 100 watts per channel into 8 ohms so yes, a 200 watt amp can play the SEOS loud! 110 dBs of stereo music is loud and that was measured off of a RS meter which means it was louder even. I sit 12 feet away or 4 meters.

Yep. I run 300 watts to my SEOS speakers. I use a Rane MA-6S amp I picked up pretty cheap. It is 6 channels 100 watts per channel @ 8 ohms, or 300 watts per channel bridged (3 channels) @ 8 ohms.

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post #19 of 46 Old 05-01-2014, 11:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Yep. I run 300 watts to my SEOS speakers. I use a Rane MA-6S amp I picked up pretty cheap. It is 6 channels 100 watts per channel @ 8 ohms, or 300 watts per channel bridged (3 channels) @ 8 ohms.

I run a Rane MA6S as well but for my QSC horned DNA360's and Faital Pro 12PR300's in LCR configuration. Running sine waves it can put out 55V into 8 ohms which equates to nearly 380 watts in bridged mode. I grabbed mine for $125 I believe. It's a steal for the price!!
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post #20 of 46 Old 05-02-2014, 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by tsloms View Post

I run a Rane MA6S as well but for my QSC horned DNA360's and Faital Pro 12PR300's in LCR configuration. Running sine waves it can put out 55V into 8 ohms which equates to nearly 380 watts in bridged mode. I grabbed mine for $125 I believe. It's a steal for the price!!

Not meaning to get too far off topic, but, I am just curious as to which QSC horn you are using with your DNA-360 and why you choose that over the Seos?
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post #21 of 46 Old 05-02-2014, 09:24 AM
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Not meaning to get too far off topic, but, I am just curious as to which QSC horn you are using with your DNA-360 and why you choose that over the Seos?
I'm using the older tried and true QSC HPR152i horn. This is the one that is now available at parts express. I had built these before the seos were available. Since these horns are a bit wider and quite a bit deeper than the seos I would like to see a direct comparison of directivity of them. I'm sure the QSC would care quite well. But I used them just because I already had them. They are working very well.
Previously I used B&C DE500 cd's on these but I switched to the DNA's to give them a shot. They are nearly identical but I believe the B&C's had slightly better high end. If have to look at my old notes.
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post #22 of 46 Old 05-02-2014, 10:26 AM
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Yes, the titanium diaphragms will extend up a bit further than polyimide.

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post #23 of 46 Old 05-02-2014, 10:40 AM
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Using Manley Labs Mahi monos on SEOS 24's and BMS coaxials.
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post #24 of 46 Old 05-03-2014, 07:24 AM
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Using Manley Labs Mahi monos on SEOS 24's and BMS coaxials.

Awesome! Are you using the 4594's? I spoke with a guy recently that just switched from the BMS-4594's to the Radian 951BePB's and according to him the BMS & Radian are close but he likes the Radian more than the BMS. Anyway...back to the topic at hand! smile.gif
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post #25 of 46 Old 05-03-2014, 11:30 AM
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Awesome! Are you using the 4594's? I spoke with a guy recently that just switched from the BMS-4594's to the Radian 951BePB's and according to him the BMS & Radian are close but he likes the Radian more than the BMS. Anyway...back to the topic at hand! smile.gif
Yes, the 4594. I've only heard of one person making such a comparison. The issue for me is, the 951Be will not go low enough for my application. If I feel I want to add more to the top end, although it may look a bit ridiculous, I can always add an OEM RAAL loaded in a SEOS WG above the SEOS 24 and only use the BMS's mid section.
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post #26 of 46 Old 05-03-2014, 01:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Looks like the Behringer 2496 would be a great choice for the main LCR XO, in a twoway design. I could use the Outlaw Mono's on the hi end and figure on three pro amps driving dual 15's on the bottom end....

The plot thickens......

As of Jan 2017, im still looking for (1) Outlaw M-200 mono amp, and a used Marantz 7010
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post #27 of 46 Old 05-03-2014, 05:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Any chance i could buy two other competitive drivers for the same cost as a 2226.........

As of Jan 2017, im still looking for (1) Outlaw M-200 mono amp, and a used Marantz 7010
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post #28 of 46 Old 05-03-2014, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Face2 View Post

Yes, the 4594. I've only heard of one person making such a comparison. The issue for me is, the 951Be will not go low enough for my application. If I feel I want to add more to the top end, although it may look a bit ridiculous, I can always add an OEM RAAL loaded in a SEOS WG above the SEOS 24 and only use the BMS's mid section.

You can actually purchase a waveguide for the RAAL from DIYSG! It's not a Seos waveguide , as I am unaware that a Seos waveguide exist for the RAAL?? I doubt that would make for a very good combo anyway due to the massive differences in the sensitivity as the RAAL would likely have to be padded down by a good bit, right? If you did something like that then you would end up with a 4-way speaker and would negate the benefits of using the coax BMS. If you were going to do it with the Radian 951BePN, I would look into using the 2" Radian 950PB, non-be) as a mid crossed around 500hz and then 3,000hz. That might actually make a nice sounding speaker if you cross them actively!
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post #29 of 46 Old 05-04-2014, 01:45 PM
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Yes, it's a SEOS waveguide made for the RAAL. There's also one for the Fountek too.

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post #30 of 46 Old 05-04-2014, 01:59 PM
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Yes, it's a SEOS waveguide made for the RAAL. There's also one for the Fountek too.
Has anyone bought either? Haven't seen a build with one.
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