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post #1 of 91 Old 05-05-2014, 03:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Received my 3 kits last week and I will be starting my build shortly.  I'll post a few pics here and there but my build won't be anything special aside for some minor changes - of which i'm still not settled on.  I’ll be making an L &R with a horizontal center.

 

One of the things I'm still on the fence is whether to make towers or risers for the L & R.  I’m leaning towards towers only from the standpoint that I have to make grills for them (this was the compromise I made with the wife).  With towers, I’m thinking of only covering from port to port with a grill as I like the looks better than covering the entire tower.  Either option will be painted a non-glossy black. 

 

As for the grill, I thought of making a metal mesh grill with a slight curve to them but if this will impact any part of the acoustics than I can stick the standard old acoustic cloth.  The reason why I like the metal grill is partially for the looks and the challenge of making them but mainly for cleaning.  I live a dusty rural Ag area and it would be easier and quicker to clean a metal grill than the acoustic cloth.

 

One of the other things that I’m debating is incorporating the ability to adjust the toe-in of the L & R speakers by creating a bottom plate that can be adjusted and tightened with a screw or create peg holes at various angles to accomplish the same thing.  This might be overkill but I've never have any luck in maintaining any toe-in because of how often things get moved around when dusting and cleaning.   My main listening position is about 11 -12 ft way.  The reason I want it somewhat flexible is the possibility of moving into a new home in the near future.

 

Anyhow, that’s where I’m at right now.  I’ll be starting with the XO’s as this will be my first attempt at making them.

 

Thanks……….

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post #2 of 91 Old 05-05-2014, 06:00 PM
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Nice choice! I also have my kits but can't start them just yet.
Be sure to post some pics along the way!
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post #3 of 91 Old 05-05-2014, 07:23 PM
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Grills are great. I'm not sure why we don't see more people making them.
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post #4 of 91 Old 05-06-2014, 04:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

Grills are great. I'm not sure why we don't see more people making them.

Grills are like bra's...they should all be burnt... wink.gif
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post #5 of 91 Old 05-06-2014, 06:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

Grills are great. I'm not sure why we don't see more people making them.

Will a metal mesh grill affect the sound or waveguide?
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Originally Posted by Fatshaft View Post

Grills are like bra's...they should all be burnt... wink.gif

Lol.....
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post #6 of 91 Old 05-06-2014, 08:14 AM
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A thick metal mesh grill over the waveguide might affect the sound. I would think not, but it certainly could. Most of the metal mesh grills I've seen only cover the woofer. I used grill cloth on my grills, and I'll just remove them when I'm being critical.
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post #7 of 91 Old 05-06-2014, 08:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

A thick metal mesh grill over the waveguide might affect the sound. I would think not, but it certainly could. Most of the metal mesh grills I've seen only cover the woofer. I used grill cloth on my grills, and I'll just remove them when I'm being critical.

it's funny.........i keep thinking of a microphone with the rounded metal mesh.  You'd think it wouldn't be a problem if they use but i'm definitely no acoustic expert whatsoever.  My internal gusto tells me "hell.......give it a try and if doesn't work make another one" but my practical side tells me "be safe and go with the cloth."  Decisions, Decisions :confused:

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post #8 of 91 Old 05-13-2014, 07:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Bought 18 gauge wire for the XO's but wondering what gauge from the XO to the speakers? 14, 16 or 18 gauge?
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post #9 of 91 Old 05-13-2014, 10:24 PM
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This is an email I send Erich when he was asking about wire size for the completed PCB's,
Quote:
For these short lengths, 16 gauge is more then enough.

For an 8 ohm nominal speaker 1000w = ~89.4 volts which = ~11.2A.
16 awg copper has a resistance of ~5 ohms per 1000’, at say 8’ the resistance of that length of wire in the speaker from input terminal to PCB then to woofer and all the way back is (5 ohms / 125) = 0.04 ohms.
Multiply amps by the resistance in the wire to Total voltage loss at 1000w: 11.2A * 0.04 ohms = .448v or .448v/89.4v = 0.5% of the total voltage.

Now the actual power lost as heat in the wire is (0.448v^2) / 0.04 ohms or ~5 watts. The power the speaker actually receives sees due to the resistance in the wire is 1000 - (89.4v-0.448v)^2 / 8 = ~989w That equates to ~0.05dB of volume loss due to the wire in the cabinet at 1000w.

I doubt there are many microphones that could pick that up. That is comparing the 16 gauge against theoretically perfect wire like a super conductor with zero resistance. If comparing 16 awg vs. 14 awg or even 18awg vs. 14awg the difference will be even smaller. In this case 18 awg internal wiring would probably be more then enough for 1000w.
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post #10 of 91 Old 05-14-2014, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Augmont View Post
 

Received my 3 kits last week and I will be starting my build shortly.  I'll post a few pics here and there but my build won't be anything special aside for some minor changes - of which i'm still not settled on.  I’ll be making an L &R with a horizontal center.

 

One of the things I'm still on the fence is whether to make towers or risers for the L & R.  I’m leaning towards towers only from the standpoint that I have to make grills for them (this was the compromise I made with the wife).  With towers, I’m thinking of only covering from port to port with a grill as I like the looks better than covering the entire tower.  Either option will be painted a non-glossy black. 

 

As for the grill, I thought of making a metal mesh grill with a slight curve to them but if this will impact any part of the acoustics than I can stick the standard old acoustic cloth.  The reason why I like the metal grill is partially for the looks and the challenge of making them but mainly for cleaning.  I live a dusty rural Ag area and it would be easier and quicker to clean a metal grill than the acoustic cloth.

 

I like your grill idea and I look forward to seeing what you end up doing.  Sometimes bras grills are necessary.

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post #11 of 91 Old 05-14-2014, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post

This is an email I send Erich when he was asking about wire size for the completed PCB's,

So my plan to use scrap 14g romex wire as xo hookup wire and some of my in-wall 12g speaker wire for xo to speaker wire should be enough!

 

Question for you guys/gals.  Do you recommend permanently soldering the xo wire to your speakers or do you recommend some sort of other temporary connector?

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post #12 of 91 Old 05-14-2014, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxozaxu View Post

So my plan to use scrap 14g romex wire as xo hookup wire and some of my in-wall 12g speaker wire for xo to speaker wire should be enough!

Question for you guys/gals.  Do you recommend permanently soldering the xo wire to your speakers or do you recommend some sort of other temporary connector?

Unless you plan on fiddling, I'd solder. better connection.
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post #13 of 91 Old 05-14-2014, 09:17 AM
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Unless you plan on fiddling, I'd solder. better connection.


Thanks Anthony.  I was leaning towards solder but then I saw some speaker build demos/examples where they go to the trouble of using connectors and I started doubting my initial thoughts.  Solder it is.

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post #14 of 91 Old 05-14-2014, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Boxozaxu View Post


Thanks Anthony.  I was leaning towards solder but then I saw some speaker build demos/examples where they go to the trouble of using connectors and I started doubting my initial thoughts.  Solder it is.

Just be cautious not to use so much heat that you disturb the tinsel lead connections to the terminals.
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post #15 of 91 Old 05-14-2014, 10:02 AM
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Just be cautious not to use so much heat that you disturb the tinsel lead connections to the terminals.


Thanks for the tip dtsdig! 

 

I picked up a Hakko 888 early last year but I don't think I had it set high enough and my soldering was taking too long (previous project).  I'm planning to try around 360 degree Celsius this time to reduce my soldering time and therefore reduce the chance of heating those tinsel lead connections.  Does that make sense?

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post #16 of 91 Old 05-14-2014, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Boxozaxu View Post


Thanks for the tip dtsdig! 

I picked up a Hakko 888 early last year but I don't think I had it set high enough and my soldering was taking too long (previous project).  I'm planning to try around 360 degree Celsius this time to reduce my soldering time and therefore reduce the chance of heating those tinsel lead connections.  Does that make sense?

That makes sense except I think you mean 360F (182C)! smile.gif If your solder is a standard 60/40, it will melt at 188C (370F). If it's a 63/37, it will be about 183C or 361F. Set it to 360 and you should be fine.
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post #17 of 91 Old 05-14-2014, 03:23 PM
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I'd probably use spade terminals for the compression driver. If you leave the iron on those terminals too long you could melt the plastic.
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post #18 of 91 Old 05-14-2014, 07:13 PM
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I'd probably use spade terminals for the compression driver. If you leave the iron on those terminals too long you could melt the plastic.

I agree. For my volts and for the upcoming Tux build, I am just using some good quality spade connectors for everything. If you just pinch each side of the connectors with some needle nose pliers before use, they won't go anywhere once you attach them to the drivers.
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post #19 of 91 Old 05-14-2014, 10:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Attempted the XO's tonight and got totally frustrated as i had trouble following the pics from Fatshafts build. I'll give it another shot in 3 or 4 days when i get some time again. At this rate i might be done by christmas. eek.gif
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post #20 of 91 Old 05-15-2014, 08:05 AM
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Let us know if we can assist. It's not a simple XO. If you do the woofers first, then the tweeter, then the mid last, it might make things less complicated. The mid XO has a lot going on.
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post #21 of 91 Old 05-15-2014, 09:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

Let us know if we can assist. It's not a simple XO. If you do the woofers first, then the tweeter, then the mid last, it might make things less complicated. The mid XO has a lot going on.

thanks.........the overlay and subsequent edits on Fatshaft's pic is confusing to me and I'm the first one to admit that I do get confused very easily.  I'm attempting right now makes sense of the pic by redrawing the lines.  I'll post when I'm done and let me know if it's correct.  

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post #22 of 91 Old 05-15-2014, 09:23 AM
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post #23 of 91 Old 05-15-2014, 09:43 AM
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Tux, did you ever have time to redraw the crossover using the BOM you sent me?
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post #24 of 91 Old 05-15-2014, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtsdig View Post

That makes sense except I think you mean 360F (182C)! smile.gif If your solder is a standard 60/40, it will melt at 188C (370F). If it's a 63/37, it will be about 183C or 361F. Set it to 360 and you should be fine.

 

Hmmmm.... my Hakko starts at 400F and goes up to 900F:

 

 

You're right about 60/40 melting at 370F so I'm pretty sure I was reading about something other than 60/40 because they also mentioned using 700F.  I need to do some more research on my own.

 

Either way, as an electronic hobbyist beginner, I don't mind risking damage to an electronic component that costs a few bucks but it's a different matter with speakers.  If people have had enough success with spade connectors I'll give that a try.  I'll use pliers to give it a good mechanical connection after connecting it to the speaker.

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post #25 of 91 Old 05-15-2014, 10:47 AM - Thread Starter
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I know my issue is trying to follow Fatshaft's layout on his single board .   I understands Tux's original layout better I think I'm better off making individual boards instead of trying to place all 3 XO's on a single board like Fatshaft and others have done.  I'm sure once I did one speaker, the light will "go on" and I'll kick myself for not drinking a V8 :)

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post #26 of 91 Old 05-15-2014, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxozaxu View Post

I'll use pliers to give it a good mechanical connection after connecting it to the speaker.

Pinch each half of the spade connectors before putting them on the speaker terminals. That way, they are tight to put on and will not go anywhere.
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post #27 of 91 Old 05-15-2014, 12:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

Let us know if we can assist. It's not a simple XO. If you do the woofers first, then the tweeter, then the mid last, it might make things less complicated. The mid XO has a lot going on.

 

Does this look right?  I added color so  I could see the forest through the trees.

 

 

EDIT: Final and corrected illustration in post # 32

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post #28 of 91 Old 05-15-2014, 02:02 PM
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Just two things I can see that I have to mention. The 0.33mH inductor on the mids shouldn't go to ground at all. That is drawn a little weird. Check to make sure that is a series connection through to the mid terminals. The 2.0mH and 2.0ohm parallel leg should go off that inductor (on the mid terminals side) into the ground. Which is how you show it. So I just think it's that inductor that is either drawn funny, or is actually wrong. So check that. It's important.

The other thing is (my memory is foggy) but the mids are reverse polarity. Just remember that. The label shows the negative symbol on the common ground. You might have just been planning on doing it at the drivers, but post do it at the board. So, just throwing that out there. Mids are in parallel. The negative terminal on the mids need to go to the out side of that 0.33mH inductor.

So all my concern is centered around that 0.33mH inductor. Check that carefully. The rest looks good.
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post #29 of 91 Old 05-15-2014, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

Tux, did you ever have time to redraw the crossover using the BOM you sent me?

No, I really should do that.
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post #30 of 91 Old 05-15-2014, 02:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

Just two things I can see that I have to mention. The 0.33mH inductor on the mids shouldn't go to ground at all. That is drawn a little weird. Check to make sure that is a series connection through to the mid terminals. The 2.0mH and 2.0ohm parallel leg should go off that inductor (on the mid terminals side) into the ground. Which is how you show it. So I just think it's that inductor that is either drawn funny, or is actually wrong. So check that. It's important.

The other thing is (my memory is foggy) but the mids are reverse polarity. Just remember that. The label shows the negative symbol on the common ground. You might have just been planning on doing it at the drivers, but post do it at the board. So, just throwing that out there. Mids are in parallel. The negative terminal on the mids need to go to the out side of that 0.33mH inductor.

So all my concern is centered around that 0.33mH inductor. Check that carefully. The rest looks good.

 

I made the changes......were they right?  Also as I need to clarify, the pic is not mine - it's Fatshaft's pic from his build.  I just used it for illustration purposes.

     

EDIT: Final and corrected illustration in post # 32

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