Piano Black UXL-18 in 4 cu. ft. sealed box - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 85 Old 05-09-2014, 06:42 PM - Thread Starter
 
JWagstaff's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 853
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 68
After doing my Fusion Alchemy 8 MTM in piano black I want to try to improve the technique on this sub to make it better, and later this summer do a pair of tempests in piano black as well. Instead of wood filler I'm going to use bondo on the cracks and brad nail holes, as I think the soft-ish wood filler is a reason the seams became visible on my center. Another thing that should help the seams not show through is that I used a flat pack, so the wood is much more square and flush, so I won't need to fill as much. I am also going to put a high gloss clear lacquer on top of the high gloss black lacquer to try to get an even deeper shine.




I think I may be the first person to ever mess up a flat pack... haha. I put the top on before the front so the front piece is a tiny bit too big to fit in, so tomorrow I'll shave it down a tiny bit so it fits. Shouldn't be an issue as the front baffle goes over top of it anyways. I don't want to force it in while the glue is drying in case it pushes it out a bit.

My revised plan:
build box
roundover edges
bondo
80 grit sand
bondo
80 grit sand
150 grit sand
3 coats of 2 part automotive urethane primer "Transtar euro classic black 2 part primer 7374/7357"
sand 220
2 coats of 2 part automotive urethane primer "Transtar euro classic black 2 part primer 7374/7357"
sand 320
2 coats black "Transtar jet black base coat 9504/6714-F"
sand 400
1 coat black "Transtar jet black base coat 9504/6714-F"
3 coats clear "Transtar Kwik finish clear 6574/6877"
sand 600 grit
2 coats clear "Transtar Kwik finish clear 6574/6877"
wetsand 1500 grit
Meguiar's D/A compound (with D/A machine)
Meguiar's D/A polish (with D/A machine)

wait at least a month and then wax.

I will make sure to wrap my sandpaper around a block for ALL sanding, as I think on my center I wasn't able to keep the pressure spread and sometimes my fingers pushed too hard and sanded too deep, which ending up making me have to re-coat many times. Another thing I'm going to watch out for is spraying too much, as I will not be able to rotate the sub and paint it on horizontal surfaces, so I will have to do very light coats on the sides to prevent drips.

Powering with one bridged channel of an inuke NU4-6000, other two channels will be for my future tempests. EQ will be with minidsp and measured with dayton calibrated usb mic.
Flush mounting a 4 pole speakon connection on back of sub, and making about 25 foot speakon cable from the amp, wiring it to +1 and +2 to get bridged signal.

Any tips, suggestions, comments?
JWagstaff is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 85 Old 05-09-2014, 08:03 PM
AVS Special Member
 
N8DOGG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 5,796
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 193 Post(s)
Liked: 323
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWagstaff View Post

After doing my Fusion Alchemy 8 MTM in piano black I want to try to improve the technique on this sub to make it better, and later this summer do a pair of tempests in piano black as well. Instead of wood filler I'm going to use bondo on the cracks and brad nail holes, as I think the soft-ish wood filler is a reason the seams became visible on my center. Another thing that should help the seams not show through is that I used a flat pack, so the wood is much more square and flush, so I won't need to fill as much. I am also going to put a high gloss clear lacquer on top of the high gloss black lacquer to try to get an even deeper shine.




I think I may be the first person to ever mess up a flat pack... haha. I put the top on before the front so the front piece is a tiny bit too big to fit in, so tomorrow I'll shave it down a tiny bit so it fits. Shouldn't be an issue as the front baffle goes over top of it anyways. I don't want to force it in while the glue is drying in case it pushes it out a bit.

My plan right now:

bondo
sand
zinser bin primer
360 grit sand
zinser bin primer
360 grit sand
3 coats black lacquer
400 grit wetsand
3 coats black lacquer
400 grit wetsand
3 coats black lacquer
400 grit wetsand
3 coats black lacquer
800 grit wetsand
1000 grit wetsand
maybe Meguiar's D/A compound (removes up to 1500 grit)?? opinions?
maybe Meguiar's D/A polish(removes up to 2500 grit)?? opinions?
coat of high gloss clear lacquer
light 400 grit wetsand
light 800 grit wetsand
coat of high gloss clear lacquer
light 800 grit wetsand
light 1000 grit wetsand
Meguiar's D/A compound
Meguiar's D/A polish

wait at least a month and then lightly polish and wax.

sealer/primer: http://www.homedepot.ca/product/zinnser-bin-primer-946ml/943738 tinted as grey as possible
paint: http://www.amazon.com/Rust-Oleum-1905830-Lacquer-Spray-11-Ounce/dp/B000C01534
gloss: either http://www.homedepot.ca/product/lacquer-clear-312g-aerosol/980038 or http://www.homedepot.ca/product/finish-watco-lacquer-gloss-319g/983243 , any opinions?


I will make sure to wrap my sandpaper around a block for ALL sanding, as I think on my center I wasn't able to keep the pressure spread and sometimes my fingers pushed too hard and sanded too deep, which ending up making me have to re-coat many times. Another thing I'm going to watch out for is spraying too much, as I will not be able to rotate the sub and paint it on horizontal surfaces, so I will have to do very light coats on the sides to prevent drips.

Powering with one bridged channel of an inuke NU4-6000, other two channels will be for my future tempests. EQ will be with minidsp and measured with dayton calibrated usb mic.
Flush mounting a 4 pole speakon connection on back of sub, and making about 25 foot speakon cable from the amp, wiring it to +1 and +2 to get bridged signal.

Any tips, suggestions, comments?

IMO, go to a bodyshop supply store and buy quality products. You can get a decent enough hvlp paint gun for $40 and the supplies would likely run around 150 for everything. That being said, you can skip 60% of your steps and still get the same finish if you were to use auto products.

2 part primer, 3 coats, block with 220, 2-3 more coats sand with 320.
2 coats black, sand with anything over 400 just to de-nib the dust, one more coat to cover sand scratches ( everything should already be straight, no need to over sand)
2-3 good coats clear. block Sand with 600, 2 more coats. Block with 1500 then 2000 and polish. (do NOT over do it, if you go crazy and have a huge film build (lots of product) it could come back to bite you in the butt at a later date)

Thats it. I've been painting for 17 years and have done over 20 piano black boxes as well as countless speakers and projects for lots of different guys., thats all the steps needed to make it beautiful mirror finish.

What makes a great piano black finish is all in your prep work before you put your primer on. If everything is already straight, you'll breeze through it. Can crap is just that, crap. Primer is only meant to take out minor imperfections, it's not a time machine that some people think it is. Your work has to be 99% straight before you prime, otherwise, it will shrink after a few days/months as the solvents come out.

You'll see lost of work that may look good in a pic but if you saw it IRL, you'd have a different opinion. You need the right tools for the job, it will make your life much easier.
JWagstaff likes this.

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

N8DOGG is offline  
post #3 of 85 Old 05-09-2014, 08:40 PM - Thread Starter
 
JWagstaff's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 853
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 68
so normal car primer will work on mdf, you don't have to seal it? what type of paint, high gloss black enamel? What store do you recommend I don't know of any.

could I just use http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/mastercraft-hvlp-air-gravity-spray-gun-0589312p.html#.U22f_vRDt7c and get paint from a paint store? can you recommend specific primer and high gloss black paint that you know work?

can you go into more detail about prep work, I know it needs to be perfect but I guess I relied too much on making the primer perfect not realizing it would shrink as the solvents come out. I think I put like 4 coats of primer on my center at least to make it perfect lol. Do i just bondo every imperfection and sand everything perfectly smooth?
JWagstaff is offline  
post #4 of 85 Old 05-09-2014, 09:38 PM
Member
 
LO4F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: UT
Posts: 94
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWagstaff View Post

so normal car primer will work on mdf, you don't have to seal it? what type of paint, high gloss black enamel? What store do you recommend I don't know of any.

+1

I would love to hear more input from N8DOGG on this, or anyone really. I have an hvlp and would like to know what others use that is tried and true. I'm just taking a stab in the dark with various oil-based paints. I don't mind learning from mistakes a quart at a time, but larger sub boxes are a lot of work to not get right the first time.

I agree with JWagstaff on the wood filler... I've had decent results in the past, but that was on other projects and not subwoofer boxes. I finally bought some bondo and will sand down my primer job just to get it right on the subs I'm currently building.
LO4F is offline  
post #5 of 85 Old 05-10-2014, 08:00 AM
AVS Special Member
 
N8DOGG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 5,796
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 193 Post(s)
Liked: 323
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWagstaff View Post

so normal car primer will work on mdf, you don't have to seal it? what type of paint, high gloss black enamel? What store do you recommend I don't know of any.

could I just use http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/mastercraft-hvlp-air-gravity-spray-gun-0589312p.html#.U22f_vRDt7c and get paint from a paint store? can you recommend specific primer and high gloss black paint that you know work?

can you go into more detail about prep work, I know it needs to be perfect but I guess I relied too much on making the primer perfect not realizing it would shrink as the solvents come out. I think I put like 4 coats of primer on my center at least to make it perfect lol. Do i just bondo every imperfection and sand everything perfectly smooth?

Yup, it will work fine over mdf. The MDF will suck in some of the primer, so you just have to make sure you give about 10 mins between coats and use a good high build primer. I would personally use base/clear, not single stage. I'm not sure what body shop supply stores you have in your area, but just don't buy your stuff from crappy tire. I'm sure if you just look in the yellow pages in your area, you'll find a few places.

That gun would be fine, I'm pretty sure the tip size is 1.4 on it too. Normally primer guns have a tip size of 1.8 to allow more product to be applied but thats not ideal for clear or base, way to much product.

As for the prep work, just bondo all your imperfections before you prime, don't rely on your primer to do anything but take out very minor imperfections and to make your already straight work, razor straight.
4 coats is ok as long as you sand off some of the material. I've seen sooooo many people in the business put way to much primer trying to make crappy body work straight and it always end up shrinking at some point in time.
laeriq and JWagstaff like this.

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

N8DOGG is offline  
post #6 of 85 Old 05-10-2014, 08:39 AM
pbc
AVS Special Member
 
pbc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 5,392
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Jwag .. Did you read through that link I provided in your MTM thread regarding seams?

 

My DIY Subs ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1233892

Quote:

J Dunlavy:.. if you stop to think about it, no loudspeaker can sound more accurate than it measures.

 

pbc is online now  
post #7 of 85 Old 05-10-2014, 08:49 AM - Thread Starter
 
JWagstaff's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 853
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbc View Post

Jwag .. Did you read through that link I provided in your MTM thread regarding seams?

yeah, I am not convinced to make trenches though.. I think one of my problems with the center was the seams were too big and it needed too much filler, so I'd like to minimize it this time to see what happens. The boat method looked interesting...

The process for making joints in boat building is to:
1) seal coat the wood with clear epoxy,
2) filet the joint with a coat of epoxy mixed with sawdust (like peanut butter),
3) laydown fiberglass, kevlar or carbon cloth in the joint,
4) floodcoat the weave with clear epoxy,
5) coat again with sawdust mix to completely fill the weave,
6) top with epoxy mixed with microbaloons or talc. This mixture is much easier to sand than the sawdust mix.

but I just wouldn't know what products to buy or how to do it at all...

I just find so much mixed advice... someone says something works good, other person says its horrible. Too many variables I guess.

I see a lot of good recommendations for Bondo so I'm hoping it works well
JWagstaff is offline  
post #8 of 85 Old 05-10-2014, 08:52 AM - Thread Starter
 
JWagstaff's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 853
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

Yup, it will work fine over mdf. The MDF will suck in some of the primer, so you just have to make sure you give about 10 mins between coats and use a good high build primer. I would personally use base/clear, not single stage. I'm not sure what body shop supply stores you have in your area, but just don't buy your stuff from crappy tire. I'm sure if you just look in the yellow pages in your area, you'll find a few places.

That gun would be fine, I'm pretty sure the tip size is 1.4 on it too. Normally primer guns have a tip size of 1.8 to allow more product to be applied but thats not ideal for clear or base, way to much product.

As for the prep work, just bondo all your imperfections before you prime, don't rely on your primer to do anything but take out very minor imperfections and to make your already straight work, razor straight.
4 coats is ok as long as you sand off some of the material. I've seen sooooo many people in the business put way to much primer trying to make crappy body work straight and it always end up shrinking at some point in time.

Only one close by I can find is NAPA auto parts. Could you please recommend specific products from there as I really have no idea, I feel if I just go and buy stuff it will just be a disaster. Or if you know of products specifically I can find them... I found tons of body shop supply stores like half an hour away from me that I could call around to find something that I know will work, I trust you smile.gif
JWagstaff is offline  
post #9 of 85 Old 05-10-2014, 08:57 AM
pbc
AVS Special Member
 
pbc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 5,392
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Where do you live again in Ontario?

 

My DIY Subs ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1233892

Quote:

J Dunlavy:.. if you stop to think about it, no loudspeaker can sound more accurate than it measures.

 

pbc is online now  
post #10 of 85 Old 05-10-2014, 08:58 AM - Thread Starter
 
JWagstaff's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 853
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 68
depending on time of year, brantford and hamilton
JWagstaff is offline  
post #11 of 85 Old 05-12-2014, 08:12 AM - Thread Starter
 
JWagstaff's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 853
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 68
N8, what do you think of thinning zinsser bin sealer primer 60/40 with denatured alcohol to do a single, light coat to seal the MDF before using 2 part automotive primer? Or do you think that it's better to just primer the bare mdf edges?
JWagstaff is offline  
post #12 of 85 Old 05-12-2014, 10:03 AM - Thread Starter
 
JWagstaff's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 853
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 68
Just got back from the auto body shop... quart of 2 part urethane primer 58 + tax. plus 153 + tax for 1 pint black, a two part urethane clearcoat and a quart of LVOC, not sure what LVOC is for.. and then it would be 50 bucks for a cheap hvlp...

Seems a bit steep to me, not looking to spend this much on paint lol. The primer seems like a decent price but the black/clear coat sounds crazy to me
JWagstaff is offline  
post #13 of 85 Old 05-12-2014, 10:07 AM
AVS Special Member
 
tuxedocivic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ladysmith, BC
Posts: 4,853
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 418 Post(s)
Liked: 591
That does seem expensive. LVOC is probably Low Volatile Organic Compounds.

Do you have a commercial cabinet builders distributor or something? Look into what guitar builders do. You should be able to get black tinted lacquer for about $40 a gallon. I paid $35 for a gallon of clear lacquer recently. That's M.L. Campbell magnamax pre-cat stuff. You might wanna look into nitrocellulose (spelling?) lacquer though. That's what the guitar guys do I think. That stuff is good for buffing out to a high polish. I'm not sure how much it costs though.
tuxedocivic is online now  
post #14 of 85 Old 05-12-2014, 10:12 AM
AVS Special Member
 
tuxedocivic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ladysmith, BC
Posts: 4,853
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 418 Post(s)
Liked: 591
Something else to add to your shopping list if you don't already have it: http://www.amazon.com/3M-60921-Respirator-Cartridge-Particulates/dp/B002D8ZR5K


And a clean shave. Breathing that stuff is nasty. Especially the thinner. Oh man, nasty stuff.
tuxedocivic is online now  
post #15 of 85 Old 05-12-2014, 10:12 AM - Thread Starter
 
JWagstaff's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 853
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

That does seem expensive. LVOC is probably Low Volatile Organic Compounds.

Do you have a commercial cabinet builders distributor or something? Look into what guitar builders do. You should be able to get black tinted lacquer for about $40 a gallon. I paid $35 for a gallon of clear lacquer recently. That's M.L. Campbell magnamax pre-cat stuff. You might wanna look into nitrocellulose (spelling?) lacquer though. That's what the guitar guys do I think. That stuff is good for buffing out to a high polish. I'm not sure how much it costs though.

I'm not familiar with any stores really haha. Yea I was expecting like 40 bucks for a gallon of black and the same for clear coat. That seems reasonable. I don't know how to find stores that sell these things though. Would a paint store like sherwin williams sell paint like this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

Something else to add to your shopping list if you don't already have it: http://www.amazon.com/3M-60921-Respirator-Cartridge-Particulates/dp/B002D8ZR5K


And a clean shave. Breathing that stuff is nasty. Especially the thinner. Oh man, nasty stuff.

Yeah I have some masks already
JWagstaff is offline  
post #16 of 85 Old 05-12-2014, 11:29 AM - Thread Starter
 
JWagstaff's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 853
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 68
JWagstaff is offline  
post #17 of 85 Old 05-12-2014, 11:33 AM
Member
 
LO4F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: UT
Posts: 94
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 19
I started asking around local paint stores and checking some stuff out online. I've purchased some accessories from TCP Global before, and I would be about $40/quart for paint from them. Same thing at Eastwood. My local paint stores (not auto body) all recommended Benjamin Moore Satin Impervo for spraying... they said if you are rolling or brushing it looks like you sprayed it, and it is nearly impossible to mess up spraying. Turns out that stuff is $80/gallon. So everything looks a little steep to me.

I'm trying some Rustoleum high performance enamel for now. I'll see what it looks like on a 8" x 8" scrap first. At $8/quart, I can afford to see how it does.
For primer I'm using Zinsser BIN. Everyone else seems to have success with that.
LO4F is offline  
post #18 of 85 Old 05-12-2014, 11:39 AM
Member
 
LO4F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: UT
Posts: 94
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWagstaff View Post

I don't know anything about hvlp spray guns... which one is best? http://www.lowes.ca/spray-guns/kobalt-45-piece-spray-gun-kit_8754227.html
http://www.homedepot.ca/product/3-piece-hvlp-gravity-feed-spray-gun-kit/998754
http://www.princessauto.com/pal/en/Paint-Guns/HVLP-Gravity-Feed-Paint-Spray-Gun/8160657.p

Would the small tip on the home depot/ lowes gun be good for spraying clear coat?

I did a bunch of research on spraygunworld.com before I purchased mine. I ended up getting an Asturo R500 which is actually a low volume HVLP (I think some place called it an LVLP) - I don't need a massive compressor with 10cfm. The gun only needs about 5cfm to operate, which is a little easier on the wallet compressor-wise.
LO4F is offline  
post #19 of 85 Old 05-12-2014, 11:42 AM
Member
 
LO4F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: UT
Posts: 94
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 19
It looks like all those guns you posted need less than 5 cfm as well. Carry on...
LO4F is offline  
post #20 of 85 Old 05-12-2014, 11:42 AM
AVS Special Member
 
N8DOGG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 5,796
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 193 Post(s)
Liked: 323

The HD or princess ones are decent enough. The lowes kobalt is a pile. a 1.4 tip is what you want for base and clear. You could also just get black single stage. its pretty cheap. Do 3 coats, block amd do 2 more and polish. if you wanted to save money. you should be able to get everything for 150$. including your gun.

Ask at the body shops if they have any returned paints. they will sell them pretty cheap as they will just throw them away anyways.

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

N8DOGG is offline  
post #21 of 85 Old 05-12-2014, 11:45 AM - Thread Starter
 
JWagstaff's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 853
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 68
Thanks. I'll probably get HD one then because it's cheaper and closer to me haha.

I've checked a few body shops near me and none of them have anything cheaper than 200 for paint. Going to try sherwin williams tomorrow. Is 1.4 mm ok for high build 2 part primer too? I usually see like 1.8 or 2 recommended but will it work still?
JWagstaff is offline  
post #22 of 85 Old 05-12-2014, 12:03 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tuxedocivic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ladysmith, BC
Posts: 4,853
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 418 Post(s)
Liked: 591
I've shot some pretty thick stuff through my cheapie Princess Auto gun with a 1.4 tip. But I often have to raise up the pressure quite high, and also thin the product as much as I can. I recently sprayed latex pain through mine, which is extremely thick. But I added water and floetrol until it was right. The proper way to do it is have two guns or two needles. It's easy to change needles/tips, and shouldn't cost much. I'd like to buy another gun personally, one for WB and another for OB. Possibly a 3rd for lacquer/solvents. Cleaning the gun for all these different bases can be very annoying. WB is really a pain. But of course, very convenient to just pour out onto the ground.
tuxedocivic is online now  
post #23 of 85 Old 05-12-2014, 12:18 PM
AVS Special Member
 
N8DOGG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 5,796
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 193 Post(s)
Liked: 323
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

I've shot some pretty thick stuff through my cheapie Princess Auto gun with a 1.4 tip. But I often have to raise up the pressure quite high, and also thin the product as much as I can. I recently sprayed latex pain through mine, which is extremely thick. But I added water and floetrol until it was right. The proper way to do it is have two guns or two needles. It's easy to change needles/tips, and shouldn't cost much. I'd like to buy another gun personally, one for WB and another for OB. Possibly a 3rd for lacquer/solvents. Cleaning the gun for all these different bases can be very annoying. WB is really a pain. But of course, very convenient to just pour out onto the ground.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWagstaff View Post

Thanks. I'll probably get HD one then because it's cheaper and closer to me haha.

I've checked a few body shops near me and none of them have anything cheaper than 200 for paint. Going to try sherwin williams tomorrow. Is 1.4 mm ok for high build 2 part primer too? I usually see like 1.8 or 2 recommended but will it work still?

Oh ya a 1.4 will still work fine. just do an extra coat. What works with home paint does not work with auto paint lol.
. Just drop your coat speed a bit and youll get more than enough material on it.

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

N8DOGG is offline  
post #24 of 85 Old 05-12-2014, 12:56 PM
Member
 
LO4F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: UT
Posts: 94
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

I've shot some pretty thick stuff through my cheapie Princess Auto gun with a 1.4 tip. But I often have to raise up the pressure quite high, and also thin the product as much as I can. I recently sprayed latex pain through mine, which is extremely thick. But I added water and floetrol until it was right. The proper way to do it is have two guns or two needles. It's easy to change needles/tips, and shouldn't cost much. I'd like to buy another gun personally, one for WB and another for OB. Possibly a 3rd for lacquer/solvents. Cleaning the gun for all these different bases can be very annoying. WB is really a pain. But of course, very convenient to just pour out onto the ground.

For anyone reading this that is interested, this 2 gun kit comes with 4 needles. And as far as I can tell, it is a no-brand version of the Asturo R500 which I own (which has worked well for me thus far...)
LO4F is offline  
post #25 of 85 Old 05-12-2014, 04:57 PM - Thread Starter
 
JWagstaff's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 853
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 68
should I be hand sanding bondo or should I use a random orbit sander? What grit?
JWagstaff is offline  
post #26 of 85 Old 05-12-2014, 06:03 PM
AVS Special Member
 
N8DOGG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 5,796
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 193 Post(s)
Liked: 323
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWagstaff View Post

should I be hand sanding bondo or should I use a random orbit sander? What grit?

Get it straight with 80 grit on a block, then you could do 120 grit on an orbital and finish in 220... but if you are using good high build primer, you can prime over 120 as long as you let it cure for a day or 2 (to lets it shrink into the scratches)

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

N8DOGG is offline  
post #27 of 85 Old 05-13-2014, 09:54 AM - Thread Starter
 
JWagstaff's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 853
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 68
Tried sherwin williams today... they have automotive paint but won't sell it unless you have a license...... All they would sell is water/oil based acrylic or latex paint.

If I get the 2 part urethane primer from NAPA... what black paints could I put on top? I can just use a single stage black paint, right? Will only urethane paint work? Or could I use an oil based paint? Would an acrylic paint stick to the primer or would it just peel off?

Also, can I just put like normal minwax high gloss polyurethane as a clear coat or should I be using the expensive two part clear coat the auto stores recommend?
JWagstaff is offline  
post #28 of 85 Old 05-13-2014, 10:39 AM - Thread Starter
 
JWagstaff's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 853
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 68
I found an interesting guide to high gloss paint... I might just try this as I can't seem to find automotive paint that is a decent price, and I would probably just mess it up anyways, as I don't consider myself a very skilled painter haha. I already have bin primer so that would save me money. He says to paint bare MDF with primer and then fill the primer with something like spackle ( I assume bondo will work fine). He says fill shrinks on bare MDF. What do you think N8/tux? He also uses satin black and then puts high gloss clear coat for a piano black finish.
Quote:
I'll tell you how I apply a gloss black, or any color for that matter, painted surface.
Before I got involved with loudspeaker systems, full time, I ran a cabinet shop and built quite a few specialty furniture items. As well as build the items I had to finish them. About 25 years ago I had a friend who was employed as a yacht painter. Most of the yachts he painted were wooden. He worked for a very high priced "Yacht Yard". One of the Crosby families from Osterville on Cape Cod. I used to marvel at the finish he achieved with a brush. There was no way you could apply quite as durable a finish by spraying. I'm in no way against spray painting but for M.D.F. it would be close to impossible to tell the difference between a brushed and a sprayed finish. Brushing, for one thing, puts down a much thicker and more durable finish, not to mention much less costly. People get so hung up on automotive type finishes they forget or don't appreciate the fact that your working with a cabinet not a car. No matter what type of final finish you choose the preparation work is very important. I'm just trying to stress that you don't need to use a spray finish to achieve a very good result. A a matter of fact brushing will get you a much thicker, more protective, finish. I always recommend oil base paint as well. It might just be me but I've never seen as good a finish achieved with latex paint. For a prime I like something like a white shellac such as "BIN" or "Stain Kill" either of these can be darkened for the black finish paint. If you leave it white it's a little harder to cover. Put the prime on before you do any filling. Trying to use something like "Spackle". Any fill on bare M.D.F. may cause the fill to shrink a bit. It works a lot better on the primed M.D.F. "Spackle" comes in two weights, regular and light. The lighter is just that, a little lighter. It will, also, dry more quickly than the regular consistency. The light sands more readily as well. This might be something to consider if you plan on using a lot of it. In any event it, usually, takes two applications of fill to complete the job. An initial sanding with about a 120 grit followed with a 220 grit is about right. I like to sand everything with, either, finish sander or a random orbit and about 120 paper . After this the prime is then applied. When the prime is dry lightly skuff it with 220. I like to wipe down the piece after sanding with a rag or paper towel dampened with alcohol or water. The alcohol dries a lot quicker than the water. After this your ready to apply the "Spackle" fill. A regular putty knife is, usually, all that's required. The reason I suggest two applications are in case any deep or extensive fill areas are encountered it can take a couple of fill applications to cover them. Sand any fill areas with a wood block to maintain flatness. Depending on how much leveling you have to do, either, 120 or 220 paper is desired . In any event finish with the 220 as a final prep. for finish paint. Remember the last step before your finish paint is that wipe down with the damp rag. Picking the proper finish paint is a very important step.
A few years ago I worked for a cabinet company in "Palm Beach County", Florida. Whenever a painted finish was requested there was only one place that was considered for supplying the paint. The "Benjamin Moore" store. There is No.1 in paint and No.2 is a long way back. The "Benjamin Moore" is that good. They have an oil based finish called : "Impervo" . This comes in a satin or a gloss finish. I use the satin finish no matter whether I want a gloss or a satin in the end. I believe it takes three coats of finish paint to do an adequate job. Each coat is then lightly sanded with a 220 grit paper or a 400 (wet or dry) before the next coat. If a final gloss finish is desired the third coat of paint is then followed with a few coats of gloss urethane. As a matter of fact even if your after a satin finish the gloss urethane is a good idea. The final coat of urethane can then be followed with, either. pumice or rotten stone to achieve the satin finish. After everything is dry a good coat of paste wax will preserve the whole business.
Good Luck : Keith
P.S. Here are a couple of tips. For brushing a good oil based finish use a good "China Bristle" brush. About two inches is good. Surprisingly those, inexpensive, foam brushes work, pretty, well too.

Would a high build oil based primer be better than zinsser bin? Or could I use this oil based black paint (impervo from benjamin moore) over a 2 part urethane automotive primer?
JWagstaff is offline  
post #29 of 85 Old 05-13-2014, 05:33 PM - Thread Starter
 
JWagstaff's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 853
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 68
Ok I've bondo'd and sanded twice now and it's fairly smooth.

What do you guys think of this:

bondo and sanded (done)
1 light coat of zinsser bin primer sealer (brush)
sand
fill any seams or imperfections with bondo
3 coats of 2 part high build urethane automotive primer (spray)
sand 220
2 coats of 2 part high build urethane automotive primer (spray)
sand 320
black oil based paint, probably black satin impervo from benjamin moore or a high gloss black acrylic paint (spray or brush?)
minwax high gloss clearcoat (spray)

would the oil paint stick to urethane primer?
if not, what paint will stick to urethane primer?
JWagstaff is offline  
post #30 of 85 Old 05-13-2014, 05:55 PM
AVS Special Member
 
dgage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,521
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 375 Post(s)
Liked: 252
I'm a little late to the party but here is another option. This is oil based and goes on pretty thick and then takes a day or 2 to dry. If you were to brush or roll put several coats on, you can sand it flat and then polish it up to a bright finish. I started to use this but got tired of not having my subs. I put on several coats and sanded them smooth and it looks like it would have done very well. Sanded, they are a nice matte black. I ended up polishing 1 side and it glossed up nicely. Unfortunately, I could only work with it on the weekends and I got tired of the time it was taking so I just got close enough and called it done. I may work with them again later but those particular sub boxes will be behind a closed door in a built-in at the front of the room.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001001LUC/ref=wms_ohs_product?ie=UTF8&psc=1
dgage is offline  
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs
Gear in this thread - UXL-18 by PriceGrabber.com

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off