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-   -   Amp configuration in new system question (http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1531487-amp-configuration-new-system-question.html)

refoow 05-12-2014 04:19 PM

Hello everyone, just a quick question.

 

I plan on building a Marty sub to replace my outlaw lfm-1 plus in my 2.1 stereo setup. My question is if my Dayton APA150 has the correct outputs to connect a NU3000dsp.

So the signal chain goes something like this:

 

Computer-->speaker amp-->sub amp-->sub-->speakers or if that's wrong point me in the right direction.

 

This is my first DIY build, thanks!

 

pictures of the amp can be found here: http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-apa150-150w-power-amplifier--300-812


chalugadp 05-12-2014 06:08 PM

I'm building a flatpack for this guy so does anyone know the answer to this ? Can he hookup an inuke to another dayton amp for stereo sound.
thanks:)

VectorLabs 05-12-2014 06:28 PM

It has a line output so you should be able to connect the inuke to that for the sub output. I would get an XLR Y cable and then use XLR-RCA cables to connect the inuke on both L and R outputs. Although those RCA outputs might not provide enough juice for the XLR inputs of the inuke so he might have to add a cleanbox in there to up the gain.

refoow 05-12-2014 07:12 PM

So something like this:  

 

http://www.amazon.com/CablesOnline-Female-2-RCA-Cable-XR-A103/dp/B00EAYYINC/ref=sr_1_11?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1399947024&sr=1-11&keywords=xlr+to+rca+dual

 

+

 

http://www.amazon.com/2-rca-Stereo-2-xlr-Y-splitter-Cable/dp/B00D6IGYRQ/ref=sr_1_11?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1399946923&sr=1-11&keywords=xlr+rca+cable

 

and if needed:

 

http://www.amazon.com/ART-CLEANBOXPRO-CLEANBoxPro/dp/B003S7T49K/ref=sr_1_1?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1399947118&sr=1-1&keywords=art+clean+box

 

correct?


VectorLabs 05-12-2014 08:46 PM

If using cleanbox:

From inuke to cleanbox:
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=115&cp_id=11509&cs_id=1150902&p_id=4751&seq=1&format=2

From cleanbox to dayton:
http://www.parts-express.com/gold-rca-y-(1)-male-to-(2)-right-angle-female-black--091-515

And 2 regular RCA cables to dayton outputs


If not using a cleanbox:

Out of dayton:
http://www.seismicaudiospeakers.com/xlr-y-splitter-cables-6-inches/p/SA-Y5

Out of inuke:
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=115&cp_id=11509&cs_id=1150902&p_id=4751&seq=1&format=2

Join them.

Although you will most likely require the cleanbox to get decent output to the inuke.

VectorLabs 05-12-2014 09:00 PM

A third option and while will cost a little more but should increase your SQ since analog outputs out of PC sound cards tend to suck is to get a DAC/Preamp like the Emotiva XDA-2.
http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/processors/products/xda2

The XDA-2 sends a signal to both XLR and RCA outputs simultaneously. So you connect the inuke to the xlr outputs and the dayton to the RCA outputs. This requires no cleanbox as you will have a fully balanced signal from the inuke to the XDA-2.

This option since it requires no cleanbox basically adds $200 to the initial cost but you get a nice USB DAC out of it and with a good music app like musicbee will get you great sound with WASAPI.

refoow 05-13-2014 11:49 AM

Ok I will save all of this information for later. Thanks for your help


BassThatHz 05-13-2014 01:15 PM

1) If you want a true 7.3, you need to buy an UMC-200 and a XSP-1 and a DCX.
That's a slight alternative variation to what I run.
[Note: it can do 2.2 and 7.1 and 7.2 and 5.2 and 5.1 and 5.3 and 3.3 etc etc as well... for that money it better!!!]
You can forego the DCX but then that's only a true .2 system for music and .1 for movies; not .3 for movies and .2 for music.

2) If you just want to settle for 7.2 it might be easier/cheaper just to buy an AVR/processor that does 7.2 with XLR outputs (make sure it's a true 7.2 though, otherwise there is no advantage over option 3).
The XMC-1 does a true 7.2 (apparently) and has a USB DAC (but it isn't out yet and is $2000).

3) Or you could settle for an AVR that is 7.1 or 5.1 using 2 subs like what most people do after the sticker-shock sets in. (no 2.2, just .1 and mono bass-management for 2-ch sources).
A UMC-200 does 7.1 but doesn't do USB DAC or 2.2... you could do 7.1 or 2.1 with 2 subs though.




An XDA-2 doesn't do LFE. So you'd have 2.2 from a 2-channel source; not 2.1 from a 7.1 Bluray disc or a 5.1 DVD.
I think the XDA-2 is strictly 2-channel (no Dolby, or DTS at all???)

BassThatHz 05-13-2014 01:35 PM

Here is my interconnect diagram showing how I do it.

It's a true 7.3 system.


Since my center channel is full bandwidth I call it "7.4"... even though it is technically just 7.3 from 7.1 sources and 2.2 from 2ch sources. (Whatever)

I use a 105 and cleanboxes instead of a UMC-200... just a slightly different way to skin the same cat really.
I wish the 105 was all XLR but it isn't; I could have just bought this an an alternative to the XSP-1 and cleanboxes: http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-RX-A3030-9-2-Channel-Aventage-Receiver/dp/B00D1VX38G, but it would have cost me more money.
I saved money and gained more control over the routing, but I have more devices and cables to deal with and cleanbox rolloff. (Oh well... win some, lose some.)

chalugadp 05-13-2014 01:45 PM

I use the emotiva umc200 for my preamp. What i love is the customization

I can adjust crossover in small increments for all speakers, the slope , and manual eq each speaker.

In my setup I have the center channel crossed over a little higher at 90hz with 24db slope. I tried the traditional 12db but i just prefer the sound at 24db. I also can tweak the eq so it sounds just right. The emotiva using the emo-q settings sounds ok but if you like to play with the settings its a dream for the price. Only thing i wish it had was dual independant xlr subs out.

BassThatHz 05-13-2014 02:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post

I use the emotiva umc200 for my preamp. What i love is the customization

I can adjust crossover in small increments for all speakers, the slope , and manual eq each speaker.

In my setup I have the center channel crossed over a little higher at 90hz with 24db slope. I tried the traditional 12db but i just prefer the sound at 24db. I also can tweak the eq so it sounds just right. The emotiva using the emo-q settings sounds ok but if you like to play with the settings its a dream for the price. Only thing i wish it had was dual independant xlr subs out.

My UMC-1 had something similar, I didn't like the sound quality of it's Emo-Q implementation, so I aborted that baby with the bathwater.

that and all the firmware issues the UMC-1 had, it left a bad taste in my mouth when I evaluated the specs of the UMC-200/Oppo 103 vs 105/cleanboxpro/DCX/XSP-1 option. (This was before the D version came out unfortunately.)

My requirements were:

Required:
  • USB DAC
  • Headphone amp, 1/4 and 1/8th
  • 2.2 and 7.3 routing / processing
  • At least 2.2 in XLR (more the better).
  • Reference SQ
  • Cheap as possible

Desired, but optional:
  • All XLR outputs
  • Lot's of HDMI routing
  • Fancy EQ & speaker processing stuff

The UMC-200 didn't meet very many of the required-requirements (no 2.2 XLR was a big deal killer for me) and I was already fairly dissatisfied with the SQ of the UMC-1 DAC and didn't want to chance another bad Emotiva DAC implementation; so I went with Oppo instead.

If you get an XMC-1 let me know, as I've love to evaluate it's SQ.
One day I might upgrade to a XMC-2 with 11.2 and 4K3D or something, but until then, this config works for me.

VectorLabs 05-13-2014 07:52 PM

The OP has a 2.1 system.

BassThatHz 05-14-2014 12:58 AM

are we talking a stereo music-only system with mono bass management ".1" redirection and small speakers?
or are we talking a 2.1 movie system, like LFE with a phantom center?

or are we talking the need to do both?

refoow 05-14-2014 03:59 AM

A 2.1 movie system, with some music thrown in.

BassThatHz 05-14-2014 07:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by refoow View Post

A 2.1 movie system, with some music thrown in.

You'd need a UMC-200 then.
The UMC-200 has mono XLR for the LFE built-in so it wouldn't need a cleanbox.
It supports phantom centers and LFE from any digital source, music or movies.

or you could buy a cheap AVR that downsamples to 2.1 from 7.1 HDMI sources and supports phantom centers, and a cleanbox for the RCA LFE to XLR conversion.

The XDA isn't designed for decoding and downsampling from multichannel HD movie audio (that I know of); so that wouldn't work.

Martycool007 05-17-2014 04:46 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post

You'd need a UMC-200 then.
The UMC-200 has mono XLR for the LFE built-in so it wouldn't need a cleanbox.
It supports phantom centers and LFE from any digital source, music or movies.

or you could buy a cheap AVR that downsamples to 2.1 from 7.1 HDMI sources and supports phantom centers, and a cleanbox for the RCA LFE to XLR conversion.

The XDA isn't designed for decoding and downsampling from multichannel HD movie audio (that I know of); so that wouldn't work.

The more I read about the UMC-200 the more I want to buy it! For the price, I don't think there is any other pre/pro that will compete with it, especially for us DIY guys who like to tweak the various settings and running pro -amps.

I bought a Denon AVR-3310 from a guy on Ebay in March of 2013, left it in the box until just the other day, was intending on using it to replace my old Yamaha RX-V663. Got the Denon setup and all settings and speakers connected, and then when I went to listen to it, nothing. It is a dud! I am now screwed out of over $350!

BassThatHz 05-18-2014 06:03 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

I bought a Denon AVR-3310 from a guy on Ebay in March of 2013, left it in the box until just the other day, was intending on using it to replace my old Yamaha RX-V663. Got the Denon setup and all settings and speakers connected, and then when I went to listen to it, nothing. It is a dud! I am now screwed out of over $350!

Please don't tell us that you gave him full stars without opening the box first and testing it and leaving negative feedback and starting up a Buyer's Money-Back Guarantee claim?
I trust ebay as far as I can throw a car. It's a 50/50 coin toss like sanway, they are selling it for a REASON. Question is: what is the REAL reason?

chalugadp 05-18-2014 06:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post

Please don't tell us that you gave him full stars without opening the box first and testing it and leaving negative feedback and starting up a Buyer's Money-Back Guarantee claim?
I trust ebay as far as I can throw a car. It's a 50/50 coin toss like sanway, they are selling it for a REASON. Question is: what is the REAL reason?

Not correct about eBay. I have bought over 400 items on eBay and several electronic pieces. I bought my current parasound amp there. If you buy something and don't test it out before the buyer protection is up the fault is your own. You would be covered fully. There are lots of reasons why people sell amps, Primarily they need the cash.

Martycool007 05-19-2014 04:43 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post

Please don't tell us that you gave him full stars without opening the box first and testing it and leaving negative feedback and starting up a Buyer's Money-Back Guarantee claim?
I trust ebay as far as I can throw a car. It's a 50/50 coin toss like sanway, they are selling it for a REASON. Question is: what is the REAL reason?

Unfortunately I did not use PayPal as I don't have an account with them. I did a private transaction and no, stupidly, I did not hook it up to make sure it worked when I received it. I know, stupid. Well live and learn, I guess. I have thought about sending it to Denon to see if it is repairable. When I first hooked it up I got some weird noises coming out of the speakers, then it just went dead and would not output any sound, and now it won't even turn on.

chalugadp 05-19-2014 10:56 AM

Marty,
We all do something stupid every once in awhile. Just before I started diy I bought all store bought speakers. Stupid me smile.gif
Thankfully they are all gone now.

BassThatHz 05-19-2014 10:57 PM

I bought $17280 worth of ebay audio gear (15 items), all 100% star USA sellers (nothing oversea, or anything risky)... and so far:
1 severe operational defect
3 severe cosmetic defects
1 minor operational defect
$1550 worth of repairs later...
(2 items totally unusable without the repairs.)

and I consider that "lucky" compared to what it COULD have been...

chalugadp 05-19-2014 11:45 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post

I bought $17280 worth of ebay audio gear (15 items), all 100% star USA sellers (nothing oversea, or anything risky)... and so far:
1 severe operational defect
3 severe cosmetic defects
1 minor operational defect
$1550 worth of repairs later...
(2 items totally unusable without the repairs.)

and I consider that "lucky" compared to what it COULD have been...

Myself and my two friends have over 100 electronic purchases between us. You have had more problems then the three of us with electronic purchases. Either you have terrible luck(my guess) or you don't ask the right questions. Yes , questions, never buy on eBay without contacting the seller. I won't buy audio equipment without full pictures of the whole item. They have to have at least 50 items sold as well. I find it hard to believe that you bought these items from sellers with a lot of feedback and they send you it with major defects. Sometimes shipping can be an issue but again they have to show me there packaging process.

When you received this items with major problems simply dispute and get your money back. For 15 items your experience is not the norm. How would sellers have 100% feedback if they were wrecking large portions of sales. I understand that you don't like eBay and based on your experience I don't blame you. If people were screwing up left and right then eBay wouldn't top Walmart in sales.

The key to eBay is contacting sellers before you buy. Half the time I don't buy from someone cuz there late getting back to me, give poor answers, or just don't seem right. Yes I miss out on last second buys but research is key. I have been sent 4 to 5 items with big problems and won each dispute. In large part because I had seller's communication stating that they would do something and then never did.

No , I don't work for eBay but I feel a lot safer buying something from them then craigslist.

LTD02 05-20-2014 01:03 AM

refoow,

your amp only has two rca inputs/outputs, so its not a 2.1 system. it is a 2.0 system.

what is needed is a Y cable that attaches to both of the RCA outputs on the Dayton amp and forms a single XLR input to the inuke.

note that it is "male" on both ends of the cable to plug into the "female" outputs on your Dayton amp and the "female" inputs on your inuke.

http://www.amazon.com/Seismic-Audio-SA-Y6-Splitter-Patch/dp/B00DS1NI4I/ref=pd_cp_e_2

that cable is only six inches long. purchase one with those connections in whatever length you require.

this will combine the signal from both outputs on the Dayton into a single signal that goes into the inuke.

unfortunately, the inuke can't do this internally.

inuke's don't require very much input signal to reach full power, so the cleanbox may not be required (hopefully not).

refoow 05-20-2014 03:35 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

inuke's don't require very much input signal to reach full power, so the cleanbox may not be required (hopefully not).

 

I'll most likely listen to the system for a month then buy the cleanbox to see if there is any audible difference. Unless there is a way that I am unaware of to see if the inuke is receiving full power.


BassThatHz 05-20-2014 04:00 PM

Since he doesn't have a discrete output with independent gain structure, it would likely mean that he would have to crank the dayton amp up to the point where the mains were exploding to get enough signal to the inuke without a cleanbox.
This is probably the problem he is currently encountering.

With a UMC-200 the cleanbox becomes unnecessary and gives a true 2.1
The cleanbox won't help him route LFE to the subs like the UMC-200 would in movie-mode.

refoow 05-20-2014 06:06 PM

I don't think I understand what constitutes a "true" 2.1. Currently I have 2 mains and a sub.The mains are some old cerwin vega D5's which seem to be very sensitive, and the sub is an outlaw. The volume levels seem to be proportionate, as I turn it up on the Dayton the outlaw happily obliges and woofs along at what seems to be appropriate volume given what the speakers are playing at.

I question the UMCs practicality for my situation. Although I am going with a fairly heavy duty sub.

chalugadp 05-20-2014 06:18 PM

I have the umc200. It would allow you to tweak your system to get the most out of it. It would be a significant upgrade over what you have. It is a few bucks so you might want to wait awhile in getting it. I went from a denon 700 buck avr to it and I love it. It takes some time to use the manual peq to its full extent. If you want to save some cash a refurbished avr can be acquired for 200.


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