AVS Group Project......Speaker Name: SEOS Maximus - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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DIY Speakers and Subs > AVS Group Project......Speaker Name: SEOS Maximus
jbrown15's Avatar jbrown15 09:47 PM 05-15-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

Not.....BIG.....enough! biggrin.gif



Here's a comparison between the Alpha-8 (same size as the Fusion-8) along with the Fusion-12 that some think is kinda big:




Here they are next to SEOS MAXIMUS!



Erich, my wife is starring at me like I'm crazy because I'm literally laughing out loud at how big those monsters are!... I've personally carried a set of Tempest down into my theater so I know how big they are compared to the two huge speakers....lol

It's going to take at least two guys to move those things around!....lol

chalugadp's Avatar chalugadp 09:48 PM 05-15-2014
Like the look of the wmt
doc5150's Avatar doc5150 09:49 PM 05-15-2014
This is gonna rock...subscribed I like the 3rd one...badass looking
jbrown15's Avatar jbrown15 09:49 PM 05-15-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post

Is that's what in the funk audio speakers coming to your GTG

Not that I'm aware of.
Erich H's Avatar Erich H 09:51 PM 05-15-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Erich, my wife is starring at me like I'm crazy because I'm literally laughing out loud at how big those monsters are!... I've personally carried a set of Tempest down into my theater so I know how big they are compared to the two huge speakers....lol

It's going to take at least two guys to move those things around!....lol

If the 21" B&C is used, it has a neo magnet that will save a lot of weight. The 10's could be neo too.

Not sure how the ports will go. I like that my original Maximus design uses 3 circular ports like the Fusion-12. Those are drawn at 6.25" because that's the outside diameter of the 4" Precision Ports. But I'm not sure if 4" is big enough, so it might need a big slot port.

The 18" JBL pro cinema speakers use dual 4" ports I believe. But I'm hoping to speaker spank those using the 21" B&C with 60mm peak excursion. eek.gif
jbrown15's Avatar jbrown15 09:56 PM 05-15-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

If the 21" B&C is used, it has a neo magnet that will save a lot of weight. The 10's could be neo too.

Just the cabinets are going to weigh a ton, even if its Baltic birch with that size....lol
WereWolf84's Avatar WereWolf84 10:07 PM 05-15-2014
I'm wondering is this speaker going to be used in cinema or home tongue.gifbiggrin.gif
clausdk's Avatar clausdk 10:37 PM 05-15-2014
Awesome project!
mt2mt2's Avatar mt2mt2 10:40 PM 05-15-2014
This is gonna be GREAT!!!!
rsvr79's Avatar rsvr79 11:01 PM 05-15-2014
Use an 18" woofer in a folded horn with a 30 Hz or lower shoulder. The outline from the side should look like an L with the horn mouth front firing at the bottom.

Then in the vacant space above the folded horn mouth, use a smaller driver (10"?) in a compression chamber with a SEOS 24 for your mids. Like how Avantegarde does with their horns.

Then above the SEOS 24 have a kickass CD on a SEOS 15 for the highs. With maybe a bullet tweeter for the dog whistle sound effects.

I'm not at my laptop right now or I would throw together a super quick sketchup. Give me a few minutes.


edit Done. By "a few minutes" I meant "60 minutes". This is super rough, certainly not measured out properly or folded properly. And the mounting solution was just a random idea.

Exploded Mid. Pretend these are smooth joins and not half-assed sketches. Don't judge me.
5Hygm1b.png

Front. That's an 18" in a folded horn, an 8" in a compression chamber on a SEOS 24, a big CD on a SEOS 15, and a bullet tweeter.
tR7vVL5.png

3/4.
p9RBrdj.png

Side.
G15yjqe.png
LTD02's Avatar LTD02 01:07 AM 05-16-2014
if this is meant to be powered by an avr, you may wish to consider using a woofer with less weight and power handling in order to keep efficiency/sensitivity as high as possible. kind of in the spirit of the old skool builds.

having a voice coil that can take 2000 watts and a cone/surround/spider all up to the task beat efficiency down and with 100 watts or so, the system won't be coming anywhere close to using all the voice coil excursion.

in order to get the most sensitivity out of the system, a lightweight driver, such as the old altec 416-8C is the way to go. gosh, I wonder why altec designed that driver that way? ;-)

a horn is always interesting, but even for 30hz, the length would have to be somewhere in the 12.5 feet long region. not that it can't be done, just might be a little more size/complexity than you want to bite into.

i'm not completely sure that I understand what the application is for this product. it would seem much better to have an active crossover for the lower end where all the power will be used and this is what a typical avr does with the subwoofer output. ?
LTD02's Avatar LTD02 01:43 AM 05-16-2014
rsvr79, that is a very creative design.

how would the 8" mid in a compression chamber work on the seos 24"? are you suggesting just firing it into the horn with no modification to the horn itself? if so, what kind of upper limit in frequency response would something like that have?
BassThatHz's Avatar BassThatHz 02:01 AM 05-16-2014
This thread is insane, but I like where it is going... biggrin.gif

Trying to imagine them in my room.




Will there be a center channel version too?

Martycool007's Avatar Martycool007 05:18 AM 05-16-2014
Love this thread! It's always so much fun picking and fantasizing drivers!

RSVR79- I don't think that it would be optimal to use a Seos-15 for the tweeter because the tweeter won't have to extend all that low, and assuming the other Seos waveguides have the same pattern control on the top end, then a Seos-10 might be a better, or simpler tool for the job. Perhaps a Seos-10 with a Radian 475BePB?

I also really like the idea of using the Beyma TPL-150, but, that thing is expensive and considering the cost of the B&C 21" sub and what ever high quality mids are used, that starts to seriously add up!
Erich H's Avatar Erich H 05:19 AM 05-16-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

i'm not completely sure that I understand what the application is for this product. ?

That's when I know we're on the right track with this design. biggrin.gif

No design has been set in stone and I'm hoping for more ideas. But it's got to be big and crazy.
Martycool007's Avatar Martycool007 05:19 AM 05-16-2014
Also, that new BMS ribbon planner that someone linked on the first page looks absolutely amazing!
Sibuna's Avatar Sibuna 05:30 AM 05-16-2014
this idea reminds me a lot of Jakes SEOS 24 monoliths which are using the 24+ BMS compression driver and 4 AE TD 15s running an active xover. they are beyond silly

i like the look of the TMW you drew above more than the WTMW but thats just me


Curious to see where this goes
JWagstaff's Avatar JWagstaff 06:12 AM 05-16-2014
Your description makes me think of this...


What if you made the cabinets attach together but separate like wilson audio to help with moving them? You could probably do some pretty cool designs like that too.
tuxedocivic's Avatar tuxedocivic 06:37 AM 05-16-2014
Why the bA750 over the FL450. I'd go SEOS 18 with FL450 and 8" mids. Side by side mids cause problems, I'm warning you wink.gif Also, crossing really low with passive parts, is not easy.

You're thinking fairly extreme for the woofer section. I'd consider this an area of economy if that matters.
JohnDean's Avatar JohnDean 06:53 AM 05-16-2014
I think I may need 2 of #4 for my backyard once I find a new one.

Just go all out for sure. I'm not sure this one has any room for words like "Economy" wink.gif
tuxedocivic's Avatar tuxedocivic 07:27 AM 05-16-2014
His OP mentioned reasonably priced drivers. ?
JWagstaff's Avatar JWagstaff 07:29 AM 05-16-2014
why does it have to be passive crossovers? Isn't using a miniDSP as an active crossover not only cheaper than passive, but better?
JohnDean's Avatar JohnDean 07:35 AM 05-16-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

His OP mentioned reasonably priced drivers. ?

Reasonable <> Economy.

I know what you mean though. I'd think that $1000 for a single speaker has some room for better than economy. I guess I'm forgetting that if it uses a bigger SEOS than the 15 they get expensive quick.
FredrikC's Avatar FredrikC 07:37 AM 05-16-2014
Some thoughts:

Passive XO pluss low XO frequency and high power handling = no good.
SEOS 18" wih dual mids is probably not much better than existing 15" designs in terms of pattern control and sound quality.

My sugestion for a 3 way would be.

SEOS 24 + large format. 5-600-8kHz. Drive units: Radian 951 or similar.
4x12" woofers = more surface area and thermal handling than a single 21" and will allow to cross higher making it easier to stick to passive XO. Drive units: AE TD12H or similar.
Supertweeter crossed with minimum 4th order @ 8kHz. I've tried this and there is no audible comb filtering when crossed steep and there is a benefit in terms of decay and dispersion. Drive units: Bullettweeter or small ring radiator CD.

Quick sketch:


Erich H's Avatar Erich H 07:43 AM 05-16-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

Why the bA750 over the FL450. I'd go SEOS 18 with FL450 and 8" mids. Side by side mids cause problems, I'm warning you wink.gif Also, crossing really low with passive parts, is not easy.

You're thinking fairly extreme for the woofer section. I'd consider this an area of economy if that matters.

I don't know where the crossover point will be to the dual 10's. If it's well under 1000hz, then using the BA-750 will allow for maximum wattage without any worry. Plus if the top is in it's own compartment, then it could be used by itself, which means the BA-750 would make more sense.

Again, this idea is a group project so nothing is set in stone right now.
lukeamdman's Avatar lukeamdman 07:57 AM 05-16-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

I will post some cheesy drawings soon so you can see the size of these compared to something like the Fusion-12. It's a real eye opener. biggrin.gif

Here were my first 2 ideas:

SEOS-18 with the BA-750 compression driver.

Dual 10" mids directly underneath

Ported 21" B&C subwoofer at the bottom.

Baffle size is 24" x 49". Waveguide is at 44" off the ground.


Idea #2:

SEOS-18 with the BA-750
Dual 10" mids
Dual 18" pro woofers. Likely FaitalPro

This speaker would be set up like the 1099. The only problem is height and where to put the ports. Before ports, the baffle is 22" x 58". Waveguide roughly 35" off the ground.

I'm really liking idea #2. The SEOS-18 with the BA could be crossed under 1k, and using 18" drivers would keep the cabinet narrower and would save on weight over the 21's.

There are also MANY high sensitivity "pro" 18" drivers to choose from.
mobeer4don's Avatar mobeer4don 07:58 AM 05-16-2014
How about an economy/modernized version of the JBL 4345? http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=7797324&postcount=7

Or 4355 if you need to go larger? http://jbl43.com/?pid=53449515
Erich H's Avatar Erich H 09:03 AM 05-16-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWagstaff View Post

why does it have to be passive crossovers? Isn't using a miniDSP as an active crossover not only cheaper than passive, but better?

I don't think it would be cheaper. Who knows if anyone else would even build these, so I'd rather just stick with a passive design for myself because I don't have a miniDSP or 6-9 separate amps to power 2-3 of them.

I don't know much about crossover design, but if there's a way to make the big woofer(s) run off a different amp separate from the top, that would be okay. Maybe bi-amping it? I don't know, that's why I was asking for ideas.
pnw's Avatar pnw 09:04 AM 05-16-2014
Modular/stacked WMTMW using existing flatpacks for two 18" woofers, 18" SEOS with the best 1" CD, four good 6-7" mids 2x2 above and below the SEOS. (Side-by-side 6" produce narrower horizontal directivity than a 12", to extend directivity lower than the SEOS alone.)
jbrown15's Avatar jbrown15 09:07 AM 05-16-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

Also, that new BMS ribbon planner that someone linked on the first page looks absolutely amazing!

Why thank you!...lol smile.gif
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