AVS Group Project......Speaker Name: SEOS Maximus - Page 29 - AVS Forum
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post #841 of 983 Old 06-23-2014, 02:46 AM
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Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post
Why do you need 2 Behringers? it's a 2 ch unit.
For a LCR setup, so I need two for that I suppose, I didnt notice any 3 or 4 channel units on their website, unless I missed it.

I'll ask my friend to bring his minidsp and then listen to some music with it. It's not that easy to A/B equipment though.
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post #842 of 983 Old 06-23-2014, 04:51 AM
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Well my Seos-15's and Seos-18 are in, as are my Behringer iNuke1000dsp's. I was originally intending on building a Seos-15 + DNA-360 + JBL-2226 for my L+R channels, and some various Seos-18 design for the center channel, all ran actively, but, my inability to find anyone that is willing to do the crossover is slowing things down a bit. So with that being said, it looks like I may be building the Seos Maximus-15's and Seos Maximus-18, that is, if I can afford the other drivers and crossover parts, which right now, I can not. Perhaps if I could sell off my 2226's then I could afford two B&C 12" mids, but I will have to save up for the B&C 18" subs. I really hate to get rid of my 2226's!
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post #843 of 983 Old 06-23-2014, 05:06 AM
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Martycool,
I'm in a similar situation and I think the behringer dcx2496 crossover is the best answer.
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post #844 of 983 Old 06-23-2014, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by mrevo2u View Post
Martycool,
I'm in a similar situation and I think the behringer dcx2496 crossover is the best answer.
You mean to get the 18 active ? Seems its a perfect fit, and i wanted the simplicity of an all-in-one XO........Hmmmmmm?

The Behringer is a perfect fit DCX2496......
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post #845 of 983 Old 06-23-2014, 06:21 PM
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I can concur on the new HF driver, remarkable little thing. It's about the smoothest HF response I've seen from a cd, when on the SEOS15. Smoother than most domes even.

The oddest thing about it is the HF doesn't seem to rolloff much above 3kHz like other 1 inch CDs. Thinking I actually understood cds better than I apparently do, I thought (and told Erich) that the thing must beam at high frequencies and that's why it keeps up at the upper end on constant directivity waveguides. But, nope, stays pretty much the same off-axis. So I don't know what it does it. It is sensitive as heck in general. It has an almost obnoxiously strong neo magnet, loves to grab tools and hardware. If you ever misplace one, drop a paperclip and see what direction it falls in (not really, but the magnet is vicious.

Anyway, it's a different cd. Wonder what the cost will be, these are samples..
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post #846 of 983 Old 06-23-2014, 08:02 PM
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The more we here about this FL-450 the more I am thinking I will need to have a few in my next builds. Another great find Erich. Bravo!!
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post #847 of 983 Old 06-24-2014, 07:22 AM
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I have a nice little plan to build a surround using dual 8" Dayton Pro drivers below the SEOS, the dual 8's will be side by side, slot loaded i'm sure....

Starting to sound like the FL450 may be a good fit for the surrounds so far........
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post #848 of 983 Old 06-24-2014, 08:20 AM
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"The oddest thing about it is the HF doesn't seem to rolloff much above 3kHz like other 1 inch CDs. Thinking I actually understood cds better than I apparently do, I thought (and told Erich) that the thing must beam at high frequencies and that's why it keeps up at the upper end on constant directivity waveguides."


"So I don't know what it does it. It is sensitive as heck in general. It has an almost obnoxiously strong neo magnet, loves to grab tools and hardware."


the powerful magnet may be pushing the mass break point up slightly higher than you are used to, which could account for part of the effect.


in addition to that, resonances in the driver may be storing energy at the top end in roughly a conjugate to the 6db/oct rolloff out past the mass break point.


the former would seem to be an "always good" type condition while the latter i'm not so sure about.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #849 of 983 Old 06-24-2014, 03:28 PM
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So how much will these FL-450 compression drivers go for? They seem to be a really nice option for the Seos-15 and Seos-18! I may end up selling my DNA-360's and pick up two of these FL-450's for my Left & Right Seos-15's and one for my Seos-18 center. Can someone tell me exactly which B&C mid and sub will go on the Seos Maximus-15 and the Seos Maximus-18? Like I said, I already have the waveguides and the DNA-360's and JBL-2226's, and will probably sell the 2226's and DNA-360's so that I can do the Seos Maximus!
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post #850 of 983 Old 06-24-2014, 03:44 PM
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So you're going to sell everything except the waveguides? Why not just build with what you have. That's a killer package...
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post #851 of 983 Old 06-24-2014, 04:10 PM
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Here is a pic of the FL450/SEOS15's on-and-off-axis responses, mounted in the Maximus box. These plots were taken outdoors at 6ft (drive level is arbitrary, and ignore the SPL level). No crossover or EQ used. Angles are 0, 22, 30, 45 (horizontal): Zero smoothing.


Very unusual driver.
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post #852 of 983 Old 06-24-2014, 04:21 PM
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And here are some plots taken during the Maximus tweaking/"voicing". We ended up having the very high end up a little high.. Hope that's not just a compensation for old-man ears. Erich was listening, too, but he listens to head-banging metal in his car with the bass cranked-up

Frequency response, sensitivity (measured in his shop, bass is a function of where it is placed, like all speakers). 1/24th octave smoothing (does about nothing above 500Hz or so) -


Next weekend I hope to hear this (briefly!) when Erich subjects it to his kW type amp....

Impulse response. Pretty compact.


And overall impedance curve:


Erich was (at least as of Sunday) thinking of including two sets of ports for it, one for deepest response (HT and synth music) and one that tunes it higher for chest-kicking rock n' roll (flatness be damned).
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Last edited by bwaslo; 06-24-2014 at 04:25 PM.
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post #853 of 983 Old 06-24-2014, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
So you're going to sell everything except the waveguides? Why not just build with what you have. That's a killer package...
I would definitely work with what you have. It may not have a working crossover but there are plenty of people here and other places that could help you figure that out. If my 15's dont sell I looked at possibly doing a Maximus 15 also. I would just use my QSC WG's 360 or 450 CD's, sealed 12" and my current 15's. Bam!! Only thing I dont have already is the CD's.

Lots of work but always fun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwaslo View Post
And here are some plots taken during the Maximus tweaking/"voicing". We ended up having the very high end up a little high.. Hope that's not just a compensation for old-man ears. Erich was listening, too, but he listens to head-banging metal in his car with the bass cranked-up

Frequency response, sensitivity (measured in his shop, bass is a function of where it is placed, like all speakers). 1/24th octave smoothing (does about nothing above 500Hz or so) -


Next weekend I hope to hear this (briefly!) when Erich subjects it to his kW type amp....

Impulse response. Pretty compact.


And overall impedance curve:


Erich was (at least as of Sunday) thinking of including two sets of ports for it, one for deepest response (HT and synth music) and one that tunes it higher for chest-kicking rock n' roll (flatness be damned).
Must say that WG combo looks amazing. I would prefer the lower porting myself. And in regards to the XO components for being able to handle 1000watts do you have any idea of how much the components would cost?

Last edited by chrapladm; 06-24-2014 at 05:59 PM.
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post #854 of 983 Old 06-24-2014, 07:35 PM
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Can someone explain the impulse response graph, and explain why its good. I never knew how to read that.......
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post #855 of 983 Old 06-24-2014, 08:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwaslo View Post
Here is a pic of the FL450/SEOS15's on-and-off-axis responses, mounted in the Maximus box. These plots were taken outdoors at 6ft (drive level is arbitrary, and ignore the SPL level). No crossover or EQ used. Angles are 0, 22, 30, 45 (horizontal): Zero smoothing.


Very unusual driver.

The photo is kind of small, but I think there's another angle in there above the green one (maybe yellow). Can't recall if the green one was actually a larger angle than 45.
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post #856 of 983 Old 06-24-2014, 08:39 PM
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At KG, This is copyrighted material, but I'm to lazy to explain. So the image will disappear soon. Basically it's another way to look at CSD. It also tells you when reflections are arriving back at the microphone.



Try reading the whole book its a lot of technical details. A necessary evil of this hobby.
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post #857 of 983 Old 06-25-2014, 02:58 AM
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What book is that?
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post #858 of 983 Old 06-25-2014, 03:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwaslo View Post
Here is a pic of the FL450/SEOS15's on-and-off-axis responses, mounted in the Maximus box. These plots were taken outdoors at 6ft (drive level is arbitrary, and ignore the SPL level). No crossover or EQ used. Angles are 0, 22, 30, 45 (horizontal): Zero smoothing.


Very unusual driver.
Just based on what else is posted here that I can compare with, that looks very good, unsmoothed even. Now everyones just wondering what the price will be on the FL-450!
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post #859 of 983 Old 06-25-2014, 03:11 AM
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Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
At KG, This is copyrighted material, but I'm to lazy to explain. So the image will disappear soon. Basically it's another way to look at CSD. It also tells you when reflections are arriving back at the microphone.



Try reading the whole book its a lot of technical details. A necessary evil of this hobby.
What book is it? and does it require that a rookie read other books before diving into it?
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post #860 of 983 Old 06-25-2014, 03:33 AM
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Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
So you're going to sell everything except the waveguides? Why not just build with what you have. That's a killer package...


Well Tux, to be honest, I am not sure if I want to go that route in selling my JBL-2226's and DNA-360's in order to build the Seos Maximus-15 (L+R) & the Seos Maximus-18 (center channel). We are just about finished with our DIY dedicated 16ft by 14ft by 8ft theater room, and with that being said, we want to get these builds done quickly so that we can start using our new room.

The problem is that the Seos Maximus--15 and -18 will have the crossovers available very soon, where as if I were to go with the Seos-15 + DNA-360 + duel JBL-2226 route, I would then have to find someone to build the crossover and design the cabinet, both of which may take a bit as I live in rural AR and do not have any friends in this region who can design crossovers.
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post #861 of 983 Old 06-25-2014, 03:54 AM
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Oh and BTW- just out of curiosity, how would the Seos Maximus-15 compare to a Seos-15 + DNA-360 over duel JBL-2226's? What the Seos Maximus-18 compared to the same Seos15/360/2226?

I do, of course, realize that either of these would be overkill in my 16ft by 14ft room I just want to make sure that by selling my JBL-2226's and picking up two B&C 12" mids, one B&C 15" mid, and some of those very expensive B&C 18" subs, and a single B&C 21" sub, and again, selling my 2226's, I need to make sure that I will be getting a worthwhile upgrade??

So, how do you guys feel a Seos-15 mounted with a DNA-360 over two JBL-2226 woofers would compare to the Seos Maximus-15's and Maximus-18?

This is a seriously tough decision!
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post #862 of 983 Old 06-25-2014, 03:59 AM
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do you have the 2226H model or the 2226J model?
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Listen. It's All Good.
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post #863 of 983 Old 06-25-2014, 04:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post
The problem is that the Seos Maximus--15 and -18 will have the crossovers available very soon, where as if I were to go with the Seos-15 + DNA-360 + duel JBL-2226 route, I would then have to find someone to build the crossover and design the cabinet, both of which may take a bit as I live in rural AR and do not have any friends in this region who can design crossovers.
Swap out waveguides for the H290C and use a single 2226H and you have a 4pi. Crossover and cabinet design are done. Yes, that is heresy in this thread but it is a simple solution.
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post #864 of 983 Old 06-25-2014, 06:31 AM
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The book is Testing Loudspeakers by Joseph D'Appolito. It's not an easy read. And a bit dated. I'd only recommend it to those who really want to understand loudspeaker testing thoroughly.
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post #865 of 983 Old 06-25-2014, 11:06 AM
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Would love to get a list of books you have found helpful for you.
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post #866 of 983 Old 06-25-2014, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
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This speaker is manly!

I got the Behringer A500 amp today and hooked it up just to see what the extra power could do for the Maximus-18. I think it's rated around 375 watts bridged.

In a word.....crazy.

The entire speaker is currently being run with a passive crossover. I was getting close to maxing out the amp (I think). But the resistors seemed fine. One was a little warm, but it's not a 20 watt resistor because I didn't have the correct value for it when we assembled the crossover.

This is certainly the loudest speaker I've ever heard. It can handle massive amounts of power, but I really can't see people even coming close to maxing it out without getting into dangerous ear damage territory. Maximus is like a freak science experiment that should never be allowed to leave the lab.

Even slightly crippled with a passive crossover and only 300 or so watts it's a dangerous beast. I've got 2 landscaping friends stopping down in about 5 minutes to hear this science experiment.
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post #867 of 983 Old 06-25-2014, 11:56 AM
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This speaker is manly!

I got the Behringer A500 amp today and hooked it up just to see what the extra power could do for the Maximus-18. I think it's rated around 375 watts bridged.

In a word.....crazy.

The entire speaker is currently being run with a passive crossover. I was getting close to maxing out the amp (I think). But the resistors seemed fine. One was a little warm, but it's not a 20 watt resistor because I didn't have the correct value for it when we assembled the crossover.

This is certainly the loudest speaker I've ever heard. It can handle massive amounts of power, but I really can't see people even coming close to maxing it out without getting into dangerous ear damage territory. Maximus is like a freak science experiment that should never be allowed to leave the lab.

Even slightly crippled with a passive crossover and only 300 or so watts it's a dangerous beast. I've got 2 landscaping friends stopping down in about 5 minutes to hear this science experiment.
Awesome!

Chest pounding bass output?
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post #868 of 983 Old 06-25-2014, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post
This speaker is manly!

I got the Behringer A500 amp today and hooked it up just to see what the extra power could do for the Maximus-18. I think it's rated around 375 watts bridged.

In a word.....crazy.

The entire speaker is currently being run with a passive crossover. I was getting close to maxing out the amp (I think). But the resistors seemed fine. One was a little warm, but it's not a 20 watt resistor because I didn't have the correct value for it when we assembled the crossover.

This is certainly the loudest speaker I've ever heard. It can handle massive amounts of power, but I really can't see people even coming close to maxing it out without getting into dangerous ear damage territory. Maximus is like a freak science experiment that should never be allowed to leave the lab.

Even slightly crippled with a passive crossover and only 300 or so watts it's a dangerous beast. I've got 2 landscaping friends stopping down in about 5 minutes to hear this science experiment.
Take a video and show us! Please!
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post #869 of 983 Old 06-25-2014, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
The book is Testing Loudspeakers by Joseph D'Appolito. It's not an easy read. And a bit dated. I'd only recommend it to those who really want to understand loudspeaker testing thoroughly.
As in "D'Appolito array"? Wild...
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post #870 of 983 Old 06-26-2014, 10:11 AM
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Just a weeee bit more info on the SEOS15/FL450, cost wise......
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