AVS Group Project......Speaker Name: SEOS Maximus - Page 33 - AVS Forum
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post #961 of 1199 Old 07-20-2014, 09:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Bill I thought the sweeps were close to 110db when you said that was a bit much and turned it down. I started putting my hands over my ears at that point.

Some people might not realize how loud that actually is when doing those whhhheeeeerrrrrppp whhhheeeeeerrrrrppp frequency response sweeps.

After you left I put in my old trusty Firehouse CD to double check the midbass punch. The amp's lights were nearly buried to solid 'red' and that speaker was rockin'!! I had to walk outside, neighbors across the street looked over as soon as the door was opened and music poured out, like I just walked out of a Big Hair concert.


Gentlemen, we're heading back to the early 90's for some cheesy songs with serious bass kick.......no you probably won't like this song! No, I'm not embarrassed having this CD.

Youtube sound quality stinks, but it gets the woofers moving good! Of course you have to turn the bass knob up just a couple clicks for good measure....

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Last edited by Erich H; 07-20-2014 at 10:01 PM.
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post #962 of 1199 Old 07-20-2014, 09:57 PM
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Your true colors shine thru
How about a mullet too
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post #963 of 1199 Old 07-20-2014, 10:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Mullet discussions should be saved till later. Or maybe shaved till later! Plus you might upset Bill because he probably had a mullet.

I don't listen to Firehouse very often because it's not a very good recording (and of course the screaming scattered throughout the songs), but if Maximus can't shake windows across the street around that 20 second mark, it goes in the dumpster! So the testing has to be done.....even if it's 90's Big Hair!

My older brother was a huge Big Hair fan. Drum player, long puffed up hair, etc., etc., etc..... He would be pleased to see what we're working on.
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post #964 of 1199 Old 07-20-2014, 10:22 PM
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Try the Metallica Black album and "...And Justice For All" to test midbass punch without embarrassing yourselves.

Mike
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post #965 of 1199 Old 07-20-2014, 10:28 PM - Thread Starter
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You can't get embarrassed when you're cranking up Maximus-18! Even if it's horrific forgotten songs of the Big Hair Era!

Plus, everyone has heard Metallica....I just wanted to mix it up!
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post #966 of 1199 Old 07-20-2014, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post
You can't get embarrassed when you're cranking up Maximus-18! Even if it's horrific forgotten songs of the Big Hair Era!

Plus, everyone has heard Metallica....I just wanted to mix it up!

Put on Justice for All, play track "one" crank it as loud as you dare and what out of the garage to witness your neighbours reactions!...lol
I'm sure that would be priceless.
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post #967 of 1199 Old 07-20-2014, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Face2 View Post
Try the Metallica Black album and "...And Justice For All" to test midbass punch without embarrassing yourselves.

Oh yes. +1

Here's a nice one from the Justice album. They flub up some of the parts but I'll give 'em slack since it was the first time they EVER played it live. This song has sections that are some of the best metal music (6:00 on is unreal) ever written IMO, so beautiful.. oh wait... we were talking about mid-bass....





Still, I cut Erich some slack. Even though I've always been into heavier stuff that album he's talking about has some really catchy tunes - yes, a bit of a guilty pleasure. Yes.... I admit I liked the song Home is Where the Heart is... ahhhhhh I hope the guys on my metal thread don't read this....
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post #968 of 1199 Old 07-20-2014, 10:54 PM - Thread Starter
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You guys act as if I've never heard those hardcore songs. Come on now...

At least Carp gave a little credit to the Firehouse CD. But 'Home is Where the Heart Is'? Okay, I'm not sure that's a song for Maximus......you must now leave this thread!

That song's going to be stuck in my head, thanks a lot.

We must not ruin this thread with old school mullet rock....this thread is for Maximus!
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Last edited by Erich H; 07-20-2014 at 11:07 PM.
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post #969 of 1199 Old 07-20-2014, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

We must not ruin this thread with old school mullet rock....this thread is for Maximus!

Agreed.

Let's pretend I didn't say anything.
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post #970 of 1199 Old 07-20-2014, 11:05 PM
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Agreed.

Let's pretend I didn't say anything.
hey carp I can send you some beth midler " wind beneath my wings" if u want
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post #971 of 1199 Old 07-20-2014, 11:11 PM
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I wonder how would SEOS Maximus compare to JTR Noesis 215 RT?
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post #972 of 1199 Old 07-20-2014, 11:20 PM
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hey carp I can send you some beth midler " wind beneath my wings" if u want


Hahaha



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post #973 of 1199 Old 07-20-2014, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by WereWolf84 View Post
I wonder how would SEOS Maximus compare to JTR Noesis 215 RT?

Ahhh that's why I follow this thread!! Love my new 215's but always curious... unfortunately...
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post #974 of 1199 Old 07-20-2014, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
Ahhh that's why I follow this thread!! Love my new 215's but always curious... unfortunately...

I think that right there is called "the sickness"......lol
I love it
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post #975 of 1199 Old 07-21-2014, 05:40 AM
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One of my favorite CDs for high-volume testing. Yes, this will really make the neighbors think you are nuts when you play it at >110 dB.

Mullet free music...

http://www.amazon.com/Happy-Annivers...+charlie+brown
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post #976 of 1199 Old 07-21-2014, 06:40 AM
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Is this what you made your students listen to when you had the over for a demo last weekend?

How did that go BTW?
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post #977 of 1199 Old 07-21-2014, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
Still, I cut Erich some slack. Even though I've always been into heavier stuff that album he's talking about has some really catchy tunes - yes, a bit of a guilty pleasure. Yes.... I admit I liked the song Home is Where the Heart is... ahhhhhh I hope the guys on my metal thread don't read this....
This almost blackmailable (insert evil laugh here).

I think Erich needs to crank up some mid 1970's Scorpions on these bad boys and let his freak flag fly for his neighborhood.
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post #978 of 1199 Old 07-21-2014, 07:40 AM
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I think that right there is called "the sickness"......lol
I love it
Que up Disturbed on your system and let it rip...I bet it would make me grin....Get up, come on get down with the sickness...Madness is the gift that has been given to me.

Current Gear: PJ – BenQ PE7700; Receiver - Onkyo TX-SR805; Blu Ray - OppoBDP 103; Turntable - Dual CS-515 w/ Ortofon Super OM10; Amplifiers - OdysseyKhartago, Adcom GFA555, QSC RMX 1850HD; PEQ - Behringer FBD2496 [Near FieldSub], miniDSP 2×4 [Flanking Subs], REW; Speakers - 4 Pi (w/B&C DE250/JBL2226H) × 3 [LCR], Yamaha Crap × 2 [surrounds], Exodus Audio Maelstrom-X18" sealed sub [near field sub], LAB-12 based ported sub tuned to 22 Hz x2 [flanking subs, XO set at 40 Hz]
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post #979 of 1199 Old 07-21-2014, 08:06 AM
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post #980 of 1199 Old 07-21-2014, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post
Is this what you made your students listen to when you had the over for a demo last weekend?

How did that go BTW?
It was great, they loved it and think I am crazy. Later today I'm planning on starting a thread about digital vs analog high pass filters when trying to blend ported and sealed and I'll include some impressions of the other night since it was the first time I fully powered the 215's and let them loose.


Quote:
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This almost blackmailable (insert evil laugh here).

I think Erich needs to crank up some mid 1970's Scorpions on these bad boys and let his freak flag fly for his neighborhood.
Hard to believe how long those guys have been around, I think they actually formed in the 60's!

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Ozzy CrazyTrain....jus say'n
I'll always love the Randy Rhoads albums.
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post #981 of 1199 Old 07-21-2014, 12:11 PM
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Actually, the (co
siderably cheaper) Eminence 12" woofer we used sounded a LOT better (to me). The whole speaker sounds quite good now (not just loud). Could see no difference in distortion measurements between woofers, though. Odd. Distortion was low (<1%) and about the same for either, up to as loud as we wanted to measure with (maybe 105dB) with no hearing protection. Freq responses were very nearly the same, too.

The thing about the heavy cone I'm thinking is that a woofer puts most of its energy into shaking its cone back and forth, coupling to air is very low even with higher efficiency drivers. The B&C gets its efficiency with a beefy motor (Qes of ~0.18) but heavy cone; Eminence does it with a lighter cone. A shaking heavy cone will put more vibration into the cabinet than a light cone will (action/reaction if you remember that stuff from high school). So maybe the B&C excites cabinet and baffle resonances more than the Eminence? Maybe. Erich's cabinet is built like a tank and has a double baffle, but still the surfaces of the box are big. If this all holds water, then lighter cones are the way to go. Erich will be trying a more upscale Eminence driver I think, see if that's better still (though I personally don't see that one we used needs any improvement).

Very interesting Bill.

Somewhat related to this is an issue I've mentioned and inquired about either in this thread, or the "Hey guys, we need some rallying" thread. Clear to anyone paying attention, essentially the entire SEOS platform is a giant killer/over-achiever. I mean everyone involved should really be proud of what has been accomplished here. The waveguide design and execution is commendably state of art.

Granted, although my projects and level of hands-on experience in DIY loudspeakers likely pale in comparison to many here, one element of the various SEOS offerings really stands out to me as a potential issue. In my opinion, it would appear as if the one potential "Achilles Heel" of the finished loudspeaker during playback, is the mid-band backwave energy's potentially corruptive influence on the output. At some point, when Erich was asking what everyone was interested in regarding the next evolutionary step in the SEOS lineup, I've suggested the enclosure ... and examining the backwave environment.

Obviously the octaves covered by the waveguide are golden. Similarly, the bottom octaves are well handled. However, the upper half of the LF driver's range seems to me to be the most vulnerable element to high performance (transparent, low distortion playback, at realistically high levels). So any attention to this area, whether it's a different cone as you experimented with, or more radical approaches such as a fully damped open back, or equivalent technique. This in an effort toward greater resolution ... perhaps via lessening detrimental backwave energy, ... perhaps helping the magnetic circuit to better track the signal. But ultimately, and maybe most importantly, allowing the cone to more accurately resolve the micro-dynamics that render the complex textural components of the recording that lead to next level realism and greater overall enjoyment of the experience.

I'm picturing some manner of open back, not dipolar, ... but somehow employed uber damped backwave area, as to maintain design directivity goals, etc., but also render the backwave essentially a non-issue ... black hole style. Integrating such an approach with either a screen wall, or baffle wall, would make things much easier with a custom solution. But it sure would be interesting somehow bringing these attributes and integrating them in a typical stand alone box. To maintain proper LF alignment and balance, it would seem a three-way like the Maximus is ideal.

Thoughts?
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post #982 of 1199 Old 07-21-2014, 12:41 PM
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So, a complete mechanical solution......
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post #983 of 1199 Old 07-22-2014, 04:32 AM
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FOH do we still have back wave issues when the enclosure is a spherical in shape?
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post #984 of 1199 Old 08-17-2014, 02:13 AM
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Any updates?
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post #985 of 1199 Old 08-17-2014, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH View Post
Very interesting Bill.

Somewhat related to this is an issue I've mentioned and inquired about either in this thread, or the "Hey guys, we need some rallying" thread. Clear to anyone paying attention, essentially the entire SEOS platform is a giant killer/over-achiever. I mean everyone involved should really be proud of what has been accomplished here. The waveguide design and execution is commendably state of art.

Granted, although my projects and level of hands-on experience in DIY loudspeakers likely pale in comparison to many here, one element of the various SEOS offerings really stands out to me as a potential issue. In my opinion, it would appear as if the one potential "Achilles Heel" of the finished loudspeaker during playback, is the mid-band backwave energy's potentially corruptive influence on the output. At some point, when Erich was asking what everyone was interested in regarding the next evolutionary step in the SEOS lineup, I've suggested the enclosure ... and examining the backwave environment.

Obviously the octaves covered by the waveguide are golden. Similarly, the bottom octaves are well handled. However, the upper half of the LF driver's range seems to me to be the most vulnerable element to high performance (transparent, low distortion playback, at realistically high levels). So any attention to this area, whether it's a different cone as you experimented with, or more radical approaches such as a fully damped open back, or equivalent technique. This in an effort toward greater resolution ... perhaps via lessening detrimental backwave energy, ... perhaps helping the magnetic circuit to better track the signal. But ultimately, and maybe most importantly, allowing the cone to more accurately resolve the micro-dynamics that render the complex textural components of the recording that lead to next level realism and greater overall enjoyment of the experience.

I'm picturing some manner of open back, not dipolar, ... but somehow employed uber damped backwave area, as to maintain design directivity goals, etc., but also render the backwave essentially a non-issue ... black hole style. Integrating such an approach with either a screen wall, or baffle wall, would make things much easier with a custom solution. But it sure would be interesting somehow bringing these attributes and integrating them in a typical stand alone box. To maintain proper LF alignment and balance, it would seem a three-way like the Maximus is ideal.

Thoughts?

What about having the tweeter, and woofer each in their own sealed cabinet section within the cabinet and leaving the 12" mid open back with varying amounts of some type of absorption material that you can add or take away a little at a time in order to adjust the quasi open back midrange compartment to suit your needs & personal taste?

As far as the next evolution phase of the Seos and DIYSG project, I personally believe that we should be looking into getting better, cheaper compression drivers, perhaps a nice, affordable 1.4" compression driver that could compete with the Radian 951PB. It would really be nice if we could somehow come up with an affordable 1.4" and 2" compression driver that has a Be diaphragm similar to the Truexnt or Radian 951BePB!

It is my opinion that after the better compression drivers are, potentially , sourced, we should then work on a nice mid and/or woofer that would perform similar to an AE TD series, but for a good bit lees amount of money.
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post #986 of 1199 Old 08-17-2014, 08:47 AM
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I would also like to note, with regards to the next Seos evolution, that we come up with some nice 3-way designs, in addition to Tuxs' 1099 and the Seos Maximus-18.

It would be nice to see a horn loaded mid that is either similar to Wayne Parham's horn design that he sells in a flat pack, or a compression driver mid horn that could be used with some 2" compression drivers such as the Radian 950PB or the BMS-4592-mid.


On a different note:
This bring me back to my original opinion in that we could seriously use a nice & affordable 1.4" compression driver that could possibly perform with SQ similar to a compression driver with a Be diaphragm, or we could possibly source out own proprietary Be units ourselves! If they would be affordable, I think that this would be a game changer and could make a huge potential request for more Seos-18 and Seos-24 waveguides!
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post #987 of 1199 Old 08-17-2014, 11:22 AM
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@martyc ool, what so you consider affordable when it comes to a nice 1.4" compression driver?


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post #988 of 1199 Old 08-17-2014, 07:22 PM
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@martyc ool, what so you consider affordable when it comes to a nice 1.4" compression driver?
I'm not Marty but $99.95 would be nice. Real nice. A giant killer (Be?) for $200 might be the sweet spot.
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post #989 of 1199 Old 08-17-2014, 07:42 PM
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I'm not Marty but $99.95 would be nice. Real nice. A giant killer (Be?) for $200 might be the sweet spot.
$99, really? I'd be happy to see that but I'm highly doubtful that price point would happen.
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post #990 of 1199 Old 08-17-2014, 07:43 PM
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No pics?
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