How does everyone measure their DIY builds and ensure they did it right, and they are perfect ? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Baselworld is only a few weeks away. Getting the latest news is easy, Click Here for info on how to join the Watchuseek.com newsletter list. Follow our team for updates featuring event coverage, new product unveilings, watch industry news & more!


Forum Jump: 
 5Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 47 Old 05-27-2014, 01:48 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 28,477
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 442 Post(s)
Liked: 1740
Advice ? Is there a sticky or thread that explains the total process for a noob ?

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
Mfusick is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 47 Old 05-27-2014, 01:57 PM
AVS Special Member
 
datranz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: fontana, california
Posts: 1,064
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
Liked: 39
Rew.
datranz is offline  
post #3 of 47 Old 05-27-2014, 01:57 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tuxedocivic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ladysmith, BC
Posts: 5,966
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1074 Post(s)
Liked: 981
I'd tell you but you're yelling at me.
tuxedocivic is offline  
post #4 of 47 Old 05-27-2014, 02:11 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 28,477
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 442 Post(s)
Liked: 1740
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

I'd tell you but you're yelling at me.

Sorry biggrin.gif how's that ?

I was doing some excel sheets with all caps. wink.gif My bad smile.gif

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
Mfusick is online now  
post #5 of 47 Old 05-27-2014, 02:30 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tuxedocivic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ladysmith, BC
Posts: 5,966
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1074 Post(s)
Liked: 981
Ha, no problem.

What are you trying to measure? Sub or speaker?
tuxedocivic is offline  
post #6 of 47 Old 05-27-2014, 03:57 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 28,477
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 442 Post(s)
Liked: 1740
Speaker

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
Mfusick is online now  
post #7 of 47 Old 05-27-2014, 04:38 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tuxedocivic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ladysmith, BC
Posts: 5,966
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1074 Post(s)
Liked: 981
If you can go outside, then put the speaker on a 8' ladder well away from the house. Do a sweep in REW (or what ever program you like). Done.

If you can't, then place the speaker on the floor of the biggest room in the house. Keep it as far from walls as possible. Couches too. Put the mic on the floor 3ft away. Tip the speaker forward such that the tweeter is on axis with the microphone. Set the winow/gate at 5ms in your measurement program like REW. Take a sweep in REW (or what ever program you like). Now, the response will be high in the low end and sensitivity will be off. But to confirm the speaker is working/ hooked up right, this doesn't matter.

Now that you have your sweep, you could post it here and get comments. But you'll know something isn't quite right if there is a big null at the XO, or there's a sensitivity mismatch between the tweeter and woofer. Then you know something is up. Any odd peaks or dips greater than 5db above 400hz should also be considered.

Another excellent step is to measure the impedance, but not many people have this capability.

Good luck.
tuxedocivic is offline  
post #8 of 47 Old 05-27-2014, 06:41 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Bill Fitzmaurice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 11,340
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 2228
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Advice ? Is there a sticky or thread that explains the total process for a noob ?
To get a standard half-space result with a full range cab take it outside well away from buildings. Take a ground plane (the mic an inch off the ground) measurement from 2 meters or more distance. That gives you half-space below the baffle step frequency. Put the cab on its back, suspend the mic the same distance as before above the cab. That gives you the half-space result above the baffle step frequency. When you superimpose the two plots you'll see where they intersect in the lower midrange. Splice the two at that frequency for a full range half space result. With a sub just do ground plane, as the baffle step frequency will be above the nominal 100Hz bandwidth.

Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design

The Laws of Physics aren't swayed by opinion.
Bill Fitzmaurice is offline  
post #9 of 47 Old 05-27-2014, 07:20 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tuxedocivic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ladysmith, BC
Posts: 5,966
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1074 Post(s)
Liked: 981
That seems overkill for a rookie just looking to confirm his wiring.
tuxedocivic is offline  
post #10 of 47 Old 05-27-2014, 07:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
A9X-308's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 5,922
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 428 Post(s)
Liked: 277
Yes. I use Bill or tux's methodology depending upon the design. I've also done some on my 2nd story verandah, speaker facing out and mic on an outrigger, so no boundaries for 15m out and about 12m to the ground. The new mains are too tall to do on the verandah so I'll do them in the yard.
A9X-308 is offline  
post #11 of 47 Old 05-28-2014, 02:17 AM
Advanced Member
 
wvu80's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 690
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Liked: 121
The Audyssey 2EQ in an Onkyo 717 will indicate if a speaker is wired out of phase.

This video demonstrates how to test for phase using a 9v battery. I used it with the battery touching the binding posts, so I could see if the phase was correct all the way through the cross over.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIMHGkxw72o
wvu80 is offline  
post #12 of 47 Old 05-28-2014, 08:00 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 28,477
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 442 Post(s)
Liked: 1740
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

If you can go outside, then put the speaker on a 8' ladder well away from the house. Do a sweep in REW (or what ever program you like). Done.

If you can't, then place the speaker on the floor of the biggest room in the house. Keep it as far from walls as possible. Couches too. Put the mic on the floor 3ft away. Tip the speaker forward such that the tweeter is on axis with the microphone. Set the winow/gate at 5ms in your measurement program like REW. Take a sweep in REW (or what ever program you like). Now, the response will be high in the low end and sensitivity will be off. But to confirm the speaker is working/ hooked up right, this doesn't matter.

Now that you have your sweep, you could post it here and get comments. But you'll know something isn't quite right if there is a big null at the XO, or there's a sensitivity mismatch between the tweeter and woofer. Then you know something is up. Any odd peaks or dips greater than 5db above 400hz should also be considered.

Another excellent step is to measure the impedance, but not many people have this capability.

Good luck.


This will work I can go outside and do the ladder thing smile.gif

I just need to learn REW and get a proper mic I guess.

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
Mfusick is online now  
post #13 of 47 Old 05-28-2014, 08:36 AM
AVS Special Member
 
J_P_A's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: L.A. - Lower Alabama
Posts: 4,511
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 435 Post(s)
Liked: 358
I've wondered about this as well. One of the nagging concerns I have about DIY is making a wiring mistake and never knowing the difference.
Mfusick likes this.

Dude, are you made of leprechauns? Cause that was awesome!

The Plains Theater Has Begun
J_P_A is offline  
post #14 of 47 Old 05-28-2014, 08:46 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Bill Fitzmaurice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 11,340
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 2228
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_P_A View Post

I've wondered about this as well. One of the nagging concerns I have about DIY is making a wiring mistake and never knowing the difference.
If you're serious enough about your sound to be building your own you should be serious enough about it to have measuring tools. With the abundance of freeware and a USB mic coming in at $100 or so there's really no excuse not to.
Mfusick, J_P_A and asarose247 like this.

Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design

The Laws of Physics aren't swayed by opinion.
Bill Fitzmaurice is offline  
post #15 of 47 Old 05-28-2014, 09:27 AM
AVS Special Member
 
J_P_A's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: L.A. - Lower Alabama
Posts: 4,511
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 435 Post(s)
Liked: 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

If you're serious enough about your sound to be building your own you should be serious enough about it to have measuring tools. With the abundance of freeware and a USB mic coming in at $100 or so there's really no excuse not to.

No argument there. My only concern is not knowing everything at the beginning. I'm afraid I will measure my speakers, but have errors either in my speaker connections, my measurement setup, or in my measurement interpretation because I'm still learning. The last of those can be handled by simply posting my results here and asking for help. The other two I'm still concerned could cause problems that will be more difficult to uncover.

Learning is part of the fun, and I'm certainly planning to build, measure (I have a calibrated mic, already), tweak, verify, etc. But I have concerns none the less.

Dude, are you made of leprechauns? Cause that was awesome!

The Plains Theater Has Begun
J_P_A is offline  
post #16 of 47 Old 05-28-2014, 12:10 PM
AVS Special Member
 
HopefulFred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 3,164
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 309 Post(s)
Liked: 281
With a little caution in regards to connecting your amp to a shorted load and driving a tweeter with no high pass, you're safe. The rest of it is more subtle and can be worked out posting here and comparing to the designer's measurements. You won't be able to have opposing faults that accidentally result in linear response, so real problems will be evident.
Mfusick likes this.
HopefulFred is offline  
post #17 of 47 Old 05-28-2014, 06:33 PM
Member
 
Cortga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Los Alamos, New Mexico
Posts: 64
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 15
I just started making measurements myself and am learning by doing, so far I have only done in room measurements and am satisfied with the results. If you built a crossover that someone else designed have some one else double check your wiring or post pics with the schematic. But if they sound good to you, just enjoy
Cortga is offline  
post #18 of 47 Old 07-22-2014, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 28,477
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 442 Post(s)
Liked: 1740
I'm still a little nooby at understand REW. Is there a good tips and cheats list or thread?

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
Mfusick is online now  
post #19 of 47 Old 07-22-2014, 10:45 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Bassment's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,043
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 494 Post(s)
Liked: 184
Bassment is offline  
post #20 of 47 Old 07-22-2014, 11:51 AM
Senior Member
 
chadcj7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 239
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassment View Post
Here's an easy guide to follow. The basics of REW is really not that difficult. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...101%20v3.7.pdf
what is a good mic for testing? Also will the mic work for both speakers and sub testing?
chadcj7 is offline  
post #21 of 47 Old 07-22-2014, 11:56 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Bassment's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,043
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 494 Post(s)
Liked: 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadcj7 View Post
what is a good mic for testing? Also will the mic work for both speakers and sub testing?
Dayton UMM-6 or miniDSP umik. Works for both speaker and sub measurements.
Bassment is offline  
post #22 of 47 Old 07-22-2014, 04:33 PM
Advanced Member
 
Samps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 983
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 376 Post(s)
Liked: 166
IMO the hardest part of rew was getting the asio driver to send multichannel sound to the avr. It took quite a bit of tinkering with the PC sound settings and relaunching rew to get it to stick. Other than that, if you can operate this forum rew will be simple.
Samps is offline  
post #23 of 47 Old 07-22-2014, 05:20 PM
AVS Special Member
 
chalugadp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 6,284
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1626 Post(s)
Liked: 1401
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samps View Post
IMO the hardest part of rew was getting the asio driver to send multichannel sound to the avr. It took quite a bit of tinkering with the PC sound settings and relaunching rew to get it to stick. Other than that, if you can operate this forum rew will be simple.
You get the sub today ?
chalugadp is offline  
post #24 of 47 Old 07-22-2014, 05:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
notnyt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 5,662
Mentioned: 58 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 938 Post(s)
Liked: 887
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassment View Post
Dayton UMM-6 or miniDSP umik. Works for both speaker and sub measurements.
umik1 from csl, imo
notnyt is offline  
post #25 of 47 Old 07-22-2014, 05:40 PM
Advanced Member
 
Samps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 983
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 376 Post(s)
Liked: 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post
You get the sub today ?
Tracking says tomorrow. Hoping my wife stays home to sign for it. I'll keep you updated.


I Agree on the umik1. Hooked it up and worked straight out of the box with the cal file on a flash drive.

Wish it had a longer cord though. Finding long hdmi cables is tough. I'd rather use a 6 foot hdmi and a long USB.
Samps is offline  
post #26 of 47 Old 07-22-2014, 05:57 PM
AVS Special Member
 
asarose247's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: DIY enabled in SoCal / OC
Posts: 1,194
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 269 Post(s)
Liked: 129
Not too long ago I had similar cabling/positioning issues.
Kbarnes suggested that up to a 10' extension on the usb cable for the mike was acceptable.
problem solved.
Mfusick likes this.

DIY FAN Denon X5200 , Emotiva UPA7, for 7.3.4 ATMOS/DSU SHARP 80" LED/LCD
FL/FR: DIYSG Fusion 15's , Center: DIYSG 88 Special , SL/SR: RC3II , SRL/SRR: F-3Towers, TF & TR: SLX
2 30" BF THTLP'S , SUBMAXIMUS, 2 x Inuke6000DSP & 2 driverless LHORN cabs
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/401-di...rs-subwoofers/
www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1485120-submaximus-large-front-loaded-horn
asarose247 is offline  
post #27 of 47 Old 07-22-2014, 07:37 PM
Advanced Member
 
mhutchins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 517
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked: 78
How does the role of a calibrated sound level meter such as the Galaxy Audio CM-140 differ from the role of a calibrated microphone such as the MiniDSP UMIK-1 for testing speakers and rooms? I'm ready to take the next step and improve my measurement skills and purchase the right tools for the job.

Mike
mhutchins is offline  
post #28 of 47 Old 07-22-2014, 08:01 PM
AVS Special Member
 
notnyt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 5,662
Mentioned: 58 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 938 Post(s)
Liked: 887
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhutchins View Post
How does the role of a calibrated sound level meter such as the Galaxy Audio CM-140 differ from the role of a calibrated microphone such as the MiniDSP UMIK-1 for testing speakers and rooms? I'm ready to take the next step and improve my measurement skills and purchase the right tools for the job.

Mike
something like umik1 doesn't need to go through audio interfaces which may have rolloff or other issues. Also, very simple to setup and work with.
notnyt is offline  
post #29 of 47 Old 07-22-2014, 08:16 PM
Advanced Member
 
mhutchins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 517
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked: 78
So if I get a CSL-calibrated miniDSP UMIK-1 microphone, I won't need a sound level meter?
mhutchins is offline  
post #30 of 47 Old 07-22-2014, 08:46 PM
AVS Special Member
 
notnyt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 5,662
Mentioned: 58 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 938 Post(s)
Liked: 887
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhutchins View Post
So if I get a CSL-calibrated miniDSP UMIK-1 microphone, I won't need a sound level meter?
If you want the spl levels to be accurate, yes, you'll need an spl meter to calibrate the level. The other solution is to get an omnimic kit.
notnyt is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off