Building first subwoofer - need help with cabinet size - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 44 Old 06-01-2014, 07:32 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
niktak11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Salem, Oregon
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 17
The term is winding down and I'm planning on starting my first build in 2-3 weeks. I've had a handful of inexpensive 10" ported subs in the past so this will definitely be the nicest sub I've owned. I'm gonna use the 15" Dayton Reference HF (http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-rss390hf-4-15-reference-hf-subwoofer-4-ohm--295-468) for my driver and the 500W Bash plate amp (http://www.parts-express.com/bash-500s-digital-subwoofer-plate-amplifier-500w-rms--300-752). I'm also thinking of putting it in a sealed cabinet. When I enter in the Thiele small parameters into WinISD it says the inner volume should be about 6 ft^3 to give it a QTC of .704. I saw this and planned on making a 24in cube (outer dimensions) because that's about the biggest it can be for the room I'm putting it in and that'd end up being pretty close to an inner volume of 5.5 ft^3 when all is said and done. A couple things are making me uncertain about this size though:
1. It seems like most of the builds I've looked at that only use a single 15" driver use a much smaller cabinet
2. The optimal sealed cabinet volume listed on PE is 2.88 ft^3

Any input on if I should stick with the 24in cube design or switch to a smaller design?



Thanks in advance,
Nick
niktak11 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 44 Old 06-02-2014, 08:10 PM
Advanced Member
 
nograveconcern's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 565
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 52
The HF needs a big cab for a optimal alignment for home theater use. I wouldn't recommend the PE size of 2.88 unless you are putting it in a car.

If you want to build a smaller box use the HO (which is what I would do). Otherwise, you are on the right track for box size. Build a 24" cube and put 3-4 $2.50 Walmart pillows in it. In fact, if you are ok with a 24" cube you could go with the 18 HO instead.
niktak11 likes this.
nograveconcern is offline  
post #3 of 44 Old 06-02-2014, 08:28 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Bill Fitzmaurice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 10,211
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 1684
Quote:
1. It seems like most of the builds I've looked at that only use a single 15" driver use a much smaller cabinet
2. The optimal sealed cabinet volume listed on PE is 2.88 ft^3
Most cabs are too small for best results. They're made that way mainly to satisfy WAF. You can go 3.3 cu ft with the HE for a Q of 8.4, then stuff the cab to lower the Q to 0.7. But the HO in the same 3.3 cu ft (net of the port) vented will have a 25Hz f3, compared to 37Hz for the sealed HE. I'd only go sealed if the room was small enough for cabin gain to kick in at 40Hz, but that means a longest dimension of about 14 feet.
niktak11 likes this.

Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design

The Laws of Physics aren't swayed by opinion.
Bill Fitzmaurice is offline  
post #4 of 44 Old 06-02-2014, 08:34 PM
AVS Special Member
 
LastButNotLeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: 08077
Posts: 4,821
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 279 Post(s)
Liked: 287

Time for a MartyCube:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1516724/martysub-flatpacks

or, simpler:

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/subwoofer-flatpacks-2/3-sub-flat-pack.html

Have fun!

niktak11 likes this.

Downloadable FREE demo discs:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475769/de...ently-authored 

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
LastButNotLeast is offline  
post #5 of 44 Old 06-02-2014, 09:41 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
niktak11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Salem, Oregon
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 17
I've read in a few places that you shouldn't make a cube due to the possibility of standing waves. Is there any truth to this?
niktak11 is offline  
post #6 of 44 Old 06-02-2014, 09:47 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
LTD02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,852
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 566 Post(s)
Liked: 1170
"I've read in a few places that you shouldn't make a cube due to the possibility of standing waves. Is there any truth to this?"

the standing waves occur very far out of the passband for subwoofers, so not a problem.
niktak11 likes this.

Listen. It's All Good.
LTD02 is offline  
post #7 of 44 Old 06-02-2014, 09:54 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
niktak11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Salem, Oregon
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Most cabs are too small for best results. They're made that way mainly to satisfy WAF. You can go 3.3 cu ft with the HE for a Q of 8.4, then stuff the cab to lower the Q to 0.7. But the HO in the same 3.3 cu ft (net of the port) vented will have a 25Hz f3, compared to 37Hz for the sealed HE. I'd only go sealed if the room was small enough for cabin gain to kick in at 40Hz, but that means a longest dimension of about 14 feet.

Does this mean that there won't be much output under 37Hz in a sealed box even if it's close to 6 ft^3?

The room it'll be in isn't very large but probably a little bigger than that (plus half of one wall is open to the kitchen)

P.S. I decided to go with the 300W Bash amp instead of the 500W since I doubt I'd even use 300W until I move to a bigger place (and I couldn't resist the $115 price tag)
niktak11 is offline  
post #8 of 44 Old 06-03-2014, 04:21 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Martycool007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,692
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 280 Post(s)
Liked: 172
Couple of things. First of, I would be looking into a ported cabinet instead of sealed, that is, if you are only going to be building one sub. By going with a ported alignment you will gain some massive output at the tuning frequency, which I would suggest you tune at between 18hz and 20hz. I am not sure, but, perhaps the HO version of the 15" Dayton may be better suited for a ported enclosure??

If you do end up going sealed, which I would not recommend if you listen to mostly movies and only have one sub, then you will need either a MiniDsp or better yet, ditch the plate amp and pick up a Behringer iNuke3000dsp for $240 on line and use it to boost your bottom end and EQ the final results. Using a MiniDsp or Behringer iNuke3000dsp are pretty much absolutely necessary with sealed enclosures.
niktak11 likes this.
Martycool007 is offline  
post #9 of 44 Old 06-03-2014, 06:24 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Bill Fitzmaurice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 10,211
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 1684
Quote:
Originally Posted by niktak11 View Post

Does this mean that there won't be much output under 37Hz in a sealed box even if it's close to 6 ft^3?
Look at the WinISD SPL charts, especially maximum SPL, which considers not only response but also Pe and xmax.

Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design

The Laws of Physics aren't swayed by opinion.
Bill Fitzmaurice is offline  
post #10 of 44 Old 06-03-2014, 11:30 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
niktak11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Salem, Oregon
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

Couple of things. First of, I would be looking into a ported cabinet instead of sealed, that is, if you are only going to be building one sub. By going with a ported alignment you will gain some massive output at the tuning frequency, which I would suggest you tune at between 18hz and 20hz. I am not sure, but, perhaps the HO version of the 15" Dayton may be better suited for a ported enclosure??

If you do end up going sealed, which I would not recommend if you listen to mostly movies and only have one sub, then you will need either a MiniDsp or better yet, ditch the plate amp and pick up a Behringer iNuke3000dsp for $240 on line and use it to boost your bottom end and EQ the final results. Using a MiniDsp or Behringer iNuke3000dsp are pretty much absolutely necessary with sealed enclosures.

I got a little too excited yesterday and went ahead and ordered everything (but I can return some stuff if I absolutely have to). It looks like it's pretty easy to modify the high pass and the bass boost on the amp I ordered. If this chart is correct the the default corner frequency of the high pass is 17.7Hz and the default bass boost id 1dB in the 25-30Hz rnage. I'm guessing I'll want a larger bass boost but I'm not quite sure what range I should boost it in. Also I'll be using Audyssey MultiEq but I'm not sure how low that tries to flatten the response to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Look at the WinISD SPL charts, especially maximum SPL, which considers not only response but also Pe and xmax.

I'll look through the WinISD guide tonight and figure everything out
niktak11 is offline  
post #11 of 44 Old 06-04-2014, 11:22 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
niktak11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Salem, Oregon
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

Couple of things. First of, I would be looking into a ported cabinet instead of sealed, that is, if you are only going to be building one sub. By going with a ported alignment you will gain some massive output at the tuning frequency, which I would suggest you tune at between 18hz and 20hz. I am not sure, but, perhaps the HO version of the 15" Dayton may be better suited for a ported enclosure??

If you do end up going sealed, which I would not recommend if you listen to mostly movies and only have one sub, then you will need either a MiniDsp or better yet, ditch the plate amp and pick up a Behringer iNuke3000dsp for $240 on line and use it to boost your bottom end and EQ the final results. Using a MiniDsp or Behringer iNuke3000dsp are pretty much absolutely necessary with sealed enclosures.
Where are you seeing it for $240? I may return the plate amp and get one since I'll probably add a second identical sub in the near future
niktak11 is offline  
post #12 of 44 Old 06-05-2014, 05:05 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Martycool007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,692
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 280 Post(s)
Liked: 172
Call Sweetwater, or check on EBay. I got mine brand new for $240 on EBay.
niktak11 likes this.
Martycool007 is offline  
post #13 of 44 Old 06-05-2014, 04:28 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
niktak11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Salem, Oregon
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Looks like sweetwater doesn't have any in stock right now. I contacted the seller on eBay that was selling them for that cheap and they won't have any for awhile either (too bad because the current eBay promotion would bring the price down to $222.50). If I can't find any for cheaper in the next couple days I may just pick it up for $270 from PE

Any recommendations on binding posts now that I won't have a plate amp? Do most people get the cups for subs or just have the posts sticking out?
niktak11 is offline  
post #14 of 44 Old 06-05-2014, 04:35 PM
AVS Special Member
 
LastButNotLeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: 08077
Posts: 4,821
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 279 Post(s)
Liked: 287

With Father's Day coming up, I would be greatly surprised if PE didn't have a coupon promotion for that weekend. It might pay to wait a little longer.

You might also consider the cheaper 1000DSP. 

niktak11 likes this.

Downloadable FREE demo discs:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475769/de...ently-authored 

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
LastButNotLeast is offline  
post #15 of 44 Old 06-05-2014, 04:40 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
niktak11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Salem, Oregon
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

With Father's Day coming up, I would be greatly surprised if PE didn't have a coupon promotion for that weekend. It might pay to wait a little longer.
You might also consider the cheaper 1000DSP. 
Right now they have a $10 off coupon. Do they often have better coupons than that?
niktak11 is offline  
post #16 of 44 Old 06-05-2014, 04:53 PM
AVS Special Member
 
LastButNotLeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: 08077
Posts: 4,821
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 279 Post(s)
Liked: 287

"Often"? No, but usually for holidays.

I got my 3000DSP during a "Spring" sale. $25 off, IIRC.

Anyone know specifically about Father's Day?

niktak11 likes this.

Downloadable FREE demo discs:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475769/de...ently-authored 

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
LastButNotLeast is offline  
post #17 of 44 Old 06-05-2014, 05:04 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
niktak11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Salem, Oregon
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

"Often"? No, but usually for holidays.
I got my 3000DSP during a "Spring" sale. $25 off, IIRC.
Anyone know specifically about Father's Day?
I will wait then. I noticed that the inukes have different input/outputs than I'm used to. Can I plug a normal "subwoofer" coaxial cable into the inputs? From what I've gathered, I need speakon terminations to plug into the outputs. Do I need 2 or 4 pole?
niktak11 is offline  
post #18 of 44 Old 06-06-2014, 01:30 PM
Advanced Member
 
nograveconcern's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 565
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by niktak11 View Post

I will wait then. I noticed that the inukes have different input/outputs than I'm used to. Can I plug a normal "subwoofer" coaxial cable into the inputs? From what I've gathered, I need speakon terminations to plug into the outputs. Do I need 2 or 4 pole?

You need an rca to xlr (hosa makes them for $5) for the input and either 2 or 4 pole speakon for the output. 4 pole are more common and typically fit better.
niktak11 likes this.
nograveconcern is offline  
post #19 of 44 Old 06-08-2014, 08:42 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
niktak11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Salem, Oregon
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 17
My driver gets here tomorrow! I may start building the box as soon as next weekend. I'll probably send the bash plate amp back as soon as that gets here either tomorrow or the next day and I'll order the nu3000dsp in the next week (even if PE doesn't end up having a sale).

I have one of PEs grill kits coming and their "premium" grill cloth but now I'm not so sure I want to put them on. I do prefer the look of a sub sans grill so my only concern would be protection. How sensitive are the drivers? Would they easily be damaged if someone bumps into them? My parents also have a small dog that stays here a couple weeks out of the year when my parents are on vacation but I haven't seen her try to attack any speakers (yet).
niktak11 is offline  
post #20 of 44 Old 06-10-2014, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
niktak11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Salem, Oregon
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Comparison shot with my current poverty subwoofer

niktak11 is offline  
post #21 of 44 Old 06-10-2014, 01:42 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 24,226
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 197 Post(s)
Liked: 1017
poverty subwoofer... haha. I like that term. tongue.gif
niktak11 likes this.

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
Mfusick is offline  
post #22 of 44 Old 06-10-2014, 02:43 PM
AVS Special Member
 
LastButNotLeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: 08077
Posts: 4,821
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 279 Post(s)
Liked: 287

We all started somewhere.

Economically, too.

May your portfolio grow as your subwoofers.

:D


Downloadable FREE demo discs:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475769/de...ently-authored 

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
LastButNotLeast is offline  
post #23 of 44 Old 06-16-2014, 12:06 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
niktak11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Salem, Oregon
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 17
I ordered the amp today and went to Lowe's to get the MDF and some other supplies. The guy there tried his best to cut everything accurately but when I got home I checked the measurements and most of them were slightly too long so I'll probably still have to run everything through the table saw. Assembly begins in the morning





niktak11 is offline  
post #24 of 44 Old 06-16-2014, 11:58 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
niktak11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Salem, Oregon
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 17
My grandpa didn't end up having all the tools I needed so we went to one of his friend's shops down the street who also didn't have a plunge router/circle jig but one of the carpenter's there cut the holes by hand with a jigsaw (I think that's what it's called). Everything didn't fit together perfectly but I used caulk on the inside in addition to the titebond II so I'm hoping I'll end up with a good seal. This is the last pic I took because I had too much glue/caulk on my fingers to be handling my phone.



I'm hoping to finish all the sealing/priming tomorrow
niktak11 is offline  
post #25 of 44 Old 06-17-2014, 03:53 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
niktak11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Salem, Oregon
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 17
I have an issue. I'm trying to flush mount the driver so I can put the grill over it but I can't find a large enough rabbeting bit. I used a 3/8in one, the largest one in the shop, but I need a 2/3in minimum for the driver to fit. Is there any other way to do this other than by ordering an expensive 2/3+ in rabbetting bit online?

niktak11 is offline  
post #26 of 44 Old 06-17-2014, 04:59 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Jon S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Sunny Hawaii
Posts: 2,807
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 103 Post(s)
Liked: 61
Just put another baffle. If the driver frame is 3/4" deep, get a 3/4" MDF cut the same size as the front baffle and cut a hole the size of the driver. Glue the cut piece in front of the current baffle.

If it's not a BIG screen, it's not a theater...
Jon S is offline  
post #27 of 44 Old 06-17-2014, 05:28 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
niktak11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Salem, Oregon
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon S View Post
Just put another baffle. If the driver frame is 3/4" deep, get a 3/4" MDF cut the same size as the front baffle and cut a hole the size of the driver. Glue the cut piece in front of the current baffle.
I wish I didn't already use the rabbeting bit on the front baffle. If I added another pice in front of that the screws that hold the driver would hit the inside edge of baffle I already routed. I'm thinking about trying to just route it by eye with a straight bit since the inevitable hideous result will be covered by a grill

Last edited by niktak11; 06-17-2014 at 05:31 PM.
niktak11 is offline  
post #28 of 44 Old 06-17-2014, 05:34 PM
AVS Special Member
 
chalugadp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 5,604
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1206 Post(s)
Liked: 1165
If you go slow you could eye it and do pretty well.
chalugadp is offline  
post #29 of 44 Old 06-17-2014, 07:08 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
niktak11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Salem, Oregon
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 17
I ended up doing it by hand and it fits now. The first two thirds of the circle looks pretty bad but by the last third I was getting pretty good lol

I put four coats of diluted titebond on the edges and I'm about to do a coat of primer on the whole thing. Tomorrow I'll spray two coats of matte black paint and then hopefully I'll be done
niktak11 is offline  
post #30 of 44 Old 06-17-2014, 10:36 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
niktak11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Salem, Oregon
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 17
End of day 2 pics



niktak11 is offline  
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off