HELP 1st time DIY -> Highest quality, cost effective finish (high gloss black, satin black.. etc) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 41 Old 06-07-2014, 09:42 AM - Thread Starter
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As of now I'm at the last few days of deciding among some DIY speaker kits.  I will either start with just 2, or 3, and maybe 5.  I will either go with 5 overnight sensations, 5 nexus mt/mtm, 2 or 3 fusion4 quad with maybe fusion6 surround or something else..., and maybe just go with 2 fusion8....  Still lots of things to consider, but I have enough information to make what I feel the best choice.

 

In terms of the finishing look.  This will be VERY important, as aesthetics are on my top 5 list.  With my living situation right now, the color is not that important.  However, I would rather a satin black, or a piano black finish (the shiny black) as it would go with any room.  I also like the cherry red, that another quad4quad builder did... Looks amazing...  Anything that will last forever, look amazing and cost effective.  I want the best money can buy.

 

Thank you for all the help!

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post #2 of 41 Old 06-07-2014, 09:56 AM
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Send your box to an automotive painter for any color you want. 350.00 for 5 small boxes.
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post #3 of 41 Old 06-07-2014, 10:01 AM - Thread Starter
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datranz -> Thanks a lot for the option!  I will keep that in mind!  I do kinda want to keep the price a bit lower. 

 

Any other suggestions?

 

Thanks!

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post #4 of 41 Old 06-07-2014, 11:55 AM
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If you do DIY, it's going to take a long time and a lot of labor if you are doing gloss black. It requires a lot of sanding and polishing, several coats of black and clear paint. Figure about 30 hours per speaker. Satin is a lot easier. A few coats and you should be good to go...

If the cabinets are made of MDF, you must prime and seal it. i find that Zinnser BIN shellac based primer is the best. You use a foam roller and sand between coats. If you want white satin subs, it will be perfect. Do not use spray primers or any water based as the MDF will just absorb the paint and it will look like a wet sponge.

If it's not a BIG screen, it's not a theater...
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post #5 of 41 Old 06-11-2014, 04:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Jon S -> I think I may go with satin black... Hahahaha

 

Could you tell me the exact product to use to do so?  I know nothing about painting, please explain the brand to use as a prime, and the brand for the seal... Or however it works.

 

Thank you!

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post #6 of 41 Old 06-11-2014, 06:14 AM
 
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If you are making it nice, as in commercial quality - it is just as expensive, or more sometimes, than just sending it to an automotive painter. You put a nice DIY finish on your speakers because you enjoy it/ want to do it yourself, not because it is cheaper.

Off the top of my head you need primer, topcoat, clearcoat, (good products, are at least 150 USD for these, if you use cheap paint you get a bad finish), sandpaper, bondo, sanding block, rags, compressor, hvlp, respirator, drop cloths, paint thinner, stir sticks, polishing compound, rubbing compound.

Sure you can just use spray paint and skip half of these products, but you're not going to get a professional looking finish.

In regards of brand of paint, most stuff people use probably isn't available in your country so you would have to go to a paint store and ask them what to do.

I know zinsser bin primer sealer ( shellac based) and then benjamin moore impervo satin black is fairly decent, fairly cheap and gives a pretty decent finish for the price, look into those if you want to spend like 100-150 US to finish. It's not easy to roll/brush paint on nicely though. I used spray cans before, I don't recommend them they end up being expensive ( I needed 8 alone for my Fusion 8 MTM) and the finisih looks nice for 6 months then starts to degrade fast.
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post #7 of 41 Old 06-14-2014, 08:38 AM - Thread Starter
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JWagstaff -> Thanks a lot bro!! Your a REAL help!!

How would I do the satin black sorry? Could I make it match my SVS ash black 100% or no?
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post #8 of 41 Old 06-14-2014, 08:52 AM
 
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I don't think you could match it 100%, it's pretty hard to get the exact color and sheen. The most common way to do satin black is zinsser bin sealer primer ( shellac base) and then just put satin black paint on it, Benjamin Moore Impervo (satin black) is popular, I don't know what's available in your country. Whatever you can find in a store. Satin black is a fairly easy color to do, because it's not high gloss so it doesn't show flaws that easily. You just have to Bondo (car fiberglass filler) the seams and sand them perfectly flat before you paint.
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post #9 of 41 Old 06-16-2014, 09:58 AM
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Also, consider Duratex. You can roll it on with more or less texture depending upon the roller you use.
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post #10 of 41 Old 06-17-2014, 06:46 AM - Thread Starter
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JWagstaff -> If you were to do it over, would you do the high gloss again?
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post #11 of 41 Old 06-17-2014, 06:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Audio Geek -> the duratex is a satin black? How many coats will I need to use? What is the good and bad breakdown?


Thank you!
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post #12 of 41 Old 06-17-2014, 06:58 AM
 
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Well, I am doing a few speakers this summer in high gloss black again, but I am doing it differently. I'm using automotive paint with a HVLP instead of spray cans and home paint. I don't think I would do spray cans again for high gloss, the paint quality isn't good enough.
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post #13 of 41 Old 06-17-2014, 11:26 AM
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Audio Geek -> the duratex is a satin black? How many coats will I need to use? What is the good and bad breakdown?


Thank you!
Typically, Duratex is applied with a textured roller for texturing, but you could use a smooth roller (for a satin sheen). The more texturing you have, the better it hides imperfections. Two or three coats should be sufficient. Primer isn't required.

Duratex can be purchased as a spray version. And you can also buy in white or custom colors.

I like that it's water based so cleanup is easy. Once it dries, it's quite durable.

Duratex is used by many speaker manufacturers. You can have a pretty professional looking finish if you're careful.
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post #14 of 41 Old 07-21-2014, 07:14 AM - Thread Starter
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JWagstaff -> I'm going to hold off, and wait for you to tell me how it went :P


Audio Geek -> Is Duratex one of the most cost effective and best looking options for LARGE subwoofers?
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post #15 of 41 Old 07-21-2014, 07:31 AM
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Smitty - automotive paint is expensive. You are looking at primer and paint plus you need a decent air set up with moisture filters, pressure regulation, and a decent spray gun. If you have this stuff and patience and some talent you can get good results but if you don't have the right combo of equipment and talent you'd probably get just as good results with rattle cans.

A proper piano gloss he's talking about might cost much labor and $120 in paint. Your better off sanding and using body filler, priming with rattle cans and then having an auto shop just paint it for you.

Rattle cans are cheapest and easiest, you'll have to decide how far you want to go.

Did you see my Nexus MTM thread where MTG did a rattle can job ? Or JWag. Results are "good". You'd want to embrace this as a hobby and challenge to seek better. Seeking better means you transcend the simple desire for a nice finish on your speakers and enter a territory of hobby and personal challenge. I have some autobody experience and I'm still holding off on the auto paint and gun spray myself because of cost and time and labor. It's tricky, expensive, and time consuming.
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post #16 of 41 Old 07-21-2014, 08:20 AM
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JWagstaff -> I'm going to hold off, and wait for you to tell me how it went :P


Audio Geek -> Is Duratex one of the most cost effective and best looking options for LARGE subwoofers?
They went good. Pics in signature, I rushed the tempests so they're not 100% perfect, but the sub is. I think letting the sub's primer dry for a month helped - as well as bondo'ing it twice instead of just once. Zero seams on the sub, can see a couple very lightly on the tempests. Tempests only had 4 coats of primer and 1 layer of bondo. Sub had 6 coats of primer and 2 layers of bondo. The automotive paint turned out a lot better than the rustoleum spray can junk, and was actually cheaper in the long run. It's not easy at all, it was a lot of research and work, I enjoy it though. These were my third set of DIY speakers - first I did a large ported sub with veneer - box wasn't even square and I didn't even use filler - I just veneered over the whole box. It is quite wavy but it looks good as the waves follow the veneer haha. Second was the Fusion 8 MTM, a lot better than the first sub I did but it's not perfectly flat and there are faint seams. The sub is perfect - commercial piano black quality. Tempests are good - I am going to make them nicer eventually though with a re-coat in the future.
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post #17 of 41 Old 07-21-2014, 01:15 PM
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Audio Geek -> Is Duratex one of the most cost effective and best looking options for LARGE subwoofers?
For paint, Duratex costs more ($70 for a gallon shipped for me) compared to just buying primer and flat black paint. But it's more durable, and doesn't require as much prep work (no primer required, texture hides some blemishes, cleans up with water). For me, the extra cost was worth it--I like easy.
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post #18 of 41 Old 07-21-2014, 01:17 PM
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Does anyone use tape (like drywall tape on drywall) to cover the seams and then bondo over that ? Seems like it might help with seams showing through ?

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post #19 of 41 Old 07-21-2014, 01:30 PM
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Does anyone use tape (like drywall tape on drywall) to cover the seams and then bondo over that ? Seems like it might help with seams showing through ?
There's lots of info about that type of thing if you research boat painting, I have never seen someone do it for a speaker. If you did it like drywall it could crack I suppose, because wood is more affected by moisture than drywall. The fiberglass boat stuff they use is super expensive.
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post #20 of 41 Old 07-21-2014, 04:49 PM
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I'm just thinking it's easy way to hide a seam.

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post #21 of 41 Old 07-22-2014, 12:26 PM
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Duratex is the EASIEST speaker coating you can buy IMO.

It is astounding how easy it is to get a professional looking finish with a simple 4" foam roller. I mean this stuff was MADE for newbs.

Its water based.

No fumes.

Dries quick.

Durable.

It doesn't get a lot of love in the DIY crowds because its not very glamourous. If you want a finish that really shows off the speaker then its not the choice.
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post #22 of 41 Old 07-22-2014, 01:17 PM
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Duratex is the EASIEST speaker coating you can buy IMO.

It is astounding how easy it is to get a professional looking finish with a simple 4" foam roller. I mean this stuff was MADE for newbs.

Its water based.

No fumes.

Dries quick.

Durable.

It doesn't get a lot of love in the DIY crowds because its not very glamourous. If you want a finish that really shows off the speaker then its not the choice.
+1 Duratex all day long for me. Love the stuff.
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post #23 of 41 Old 07-23-2014, 03:51 AM - Thread Starter
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NicksHitachi Gorilla83 -> does it matter the quality and the thickness of the 4" roller?


I think I will use it on my subwoofers. Will it cover the big knots found in say pine ply?


Thanks!
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post #24 of 41 Old 07-23-2014, 04:03 AM
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NicksHitachi Gorilla83 -> does it matter the quality and the thickness of the 4" roller?


I think I will use it on my subwoofers. Will it cover the big knots found in say pine ply?


Thanks!
I just use the foam ones from lowes... I like the foam for speakers inside the house. If I were doing road cases or tour gear id use the furry rollers for more texture/durability

It would probably cover the knots but why not putty and sand or better yet spend a couple more dollars for something appearance grade?

That plywood has lots of voids and the knot issues you mention, IMO your better off getting Birch or MDF(Dusty). If you dont youll regret it later.
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post #25 of 41 Old 07-23-2014, 04:06 AM - Thread Starter
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NicksHitachi -> Where I live we no have birch or MDF in 3/4"


How will cedar ply do?
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post #26 of 41 Old 07-23-2014, 04:09 AM
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IDK maybe, cedar is a super soft wood. What about oak or mahogony?
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post #27 of 41 Old 07-23-2014, 04:17 AM - Thread Starter
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NicksHitachi -> Hrmmm, I though cedar was hard lol


Our materials here are very limited and expensive, I will have to see what they have.... And hope for the best...


What are the most important factors when considering wood in regards to building subwoofers?
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post #28 of 41 Old 07-23-2014, 04:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok I can get 3/4" MDF.... Should I just pull the trigger on that and not look any further, or is there something better?
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post #29 of 41 Old 07-23-2014, 04:42 AM
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NicksHitachi Gorilla83 -> does it matter the quality and the thickness of the 4" roller?


I think I will use it on my subwoofers. Will it cover the big knots found in say pine ply?


Thanks!
I've used both the smooth and duratex supplied foam rollers - both work fine, just depends on the texture you want to achieve.
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post #30 of 41 Old 07-23-2014, 04:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Gorilla83 -> so the pine is not good as wood for the enclosure?


When you say the texture you want to achieve.... Means what sorry?
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