Seos Tempest HELP!!!! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 34 Old 06-08-2014, 03:55 PM - Thread Starter
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I built 3 Seos Tempest over a month ago. I purchased the assembled crossovers. The speakers worked great for the 1st week. Week 2 I started losing bass from one of my speakers. It would come in/out with static. Sounded like a loose wire. As I was looking at the back to make sure the my speaker wire had not come loose it stopped working. I could hear the voice coil but NO bass. I shut the amp off (each speakers is powered by a Inuke 1000dsp bridged) Removed the 12" woofer and noticed the large red coil was loose, the hot glue had broken loose. I re-glued it and tried the speaker again. Same problem.

I removed a woofer from speaker #2 and connected it to the broken crossover ( I wanted to determine if it was the board or it the woofer blew ). I had the same problem. I then removed the broken crossover and replaced it with a good one from speaker #2. I head both voice coils from the 12" woofer. I had bass and voice. Just to double check I connected the waveguide and woofer from speaker #2 to what I determined was a bad crossover. I duplicated the same problem. The bass was dead.

I contacted Erich and he replaced the board free of charge. I placed the new board inside and everything worked flawlessly. I was up north the following week and heard the same static distortion and bass driver failing. I removed the woofer to find the large red coil had broken loose from the hot glue and a smaller gold cold had broken loose as well. In both cases, they were still zip tied but it did allow movement.
I re conducted the exact same tests and determined this crossover failed just like the other. I again contacted Erich and he replied stating he would contact the people that build the crossovers.

Here's the deal. I don't like asking Erich to replace my crossover a second time. Erich did state in his email that nothing was wrong with my defective crossover I sent back. Hmm. So, is my current crossover defective as well or is there something else I can test? I would love to figure this out myself.

1.Could my Inuke be causing the problem? It is bridged at 1000 watts? I can eliminate them altogether and use my Denon 4311 amps. But if its my Inukes, why haven't the other 2 speakers failed.
2.Would the hot glue falling apart and allowing some wiggling of the components cause a short? I listen to my music loud so I'm sure things were vibrating inside. (but enough to cause a short)?
3. Can I reconnect the crossover and use a wire tester on the terminals? Would I get a reading on the pos and neg terminals? to show ohms and if so, what would that prove or disprove. OR to test other components to determine if the crossover board is really dead.
4. Other than swapping my crossover boards or switching my 12" woofers (just to know the bass and voice coils do work and the driver is not defective) what else can I do?
5. Has ANYONE else had this problem or a similar problem? I certainly cannot keep asking Erich to replace my crossover every time it stops working. I'm not a super techy but I wouldn't mind building my own just so I can troubleshoot any issues in the future.

The speakers are still at my other home, I will be heading up Tue so I'll try anything to help Erich out before I send it back, If I can understand why this is happening, I can make sure it doesn't happen again.

Thanks,

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post #2 of 34 Old 06-08-2014, 04:14 PM
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You can measure the resistance of the speaker, see if its within range. I think it should be somewhere around 8ohms. If its real low or too high then measure the woofer and compression driver (tweeter) without the crossover connected.

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post #3 of 34 Old 06-08-2014, 04:17 PM
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You have one amp on each speaker right? Has it been that same amp on the same speaker that had the issue both times? I'm not tech savvy enough to know if the Delta Pro could be causing any issues itself, but I'm interested to see what others might think.
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post #4 of 34 Old 06-08-2014, 04:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, the same I nuke 1000 dsp. I will also mention it started to distort on a second speaker but I shut the I nuke off before anything happened. Im scratching my head over this, it doesn't make any sense. I have been using my Inukes bridged on my QSC 2150 without any issues. I really hope other members can assist. I'll do all the labor on my end. I sincerely want to figure this out. Everything has been powered down for the past week. I'll run them next week to see if the problem corrected itself. Obviously if the crossover I returned defective was NOT, then what caused it to "act" that way. The replacement crossover worked upon arrival until last week. I'll mark the 12" Woofer just to make "certain" its the same speaker every time. I would suggest throwing the I nuke in the ring but since I had a close call with a second speaker I too would lean toward the 12" Driver. Just for shitz and giggles I will connect the woofer from speaker #1 which has no bass to my other crossover and see what happens. But as of now everything works fine except the one crossover not working. The voice coil works but the bass is dead. *stumped* I'll check the Ohms on the terminals as well.

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post #5 of 34 Old 06-08-2014, 04:54 PM
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The speakers are rated for 500w and if you really are pushing 1000w with music then it could be a problem. That is going to be real loud too. Does the static sound happen at low volume?

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post #6 of 34 Old 06-08-2014, 04:54 PM
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Are all 3 doing this?
Sounds like you have a broken woofer (it happens); one of the 7 I bought from PE had damage.

If you have the DSP version just enable digital crossovers, that would prove if it was the drivers or XO.

Either that, or you have a broken amp (test it on some OTHER speaker),
or you are driving the amp into clipping and causing the voice coils to overheat and fly apart.
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post #7 of 34 Old 06-08-2014, 05:05 PM - Thread Starter
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No static at all, they sounded crystal clear. Then I nukes gain is set just past the half way mark. Volume is not ear piercing. I was playing around 30 on the volume knob. I was not over powering the speakers. I am working on my theater room which is only 18ft. wide by 20 feet deep. I have 4 subs as well. Do you think having 1000 watts on tap could cause the woofer to stop working ie, the bass portion while allowing the voice coil to work?
I can remove the woofer and use the crossover from speaker #2 and the woofer functions fine, its not actually blowing the woofer. Would it blow something on the crossover? if so, do you know what part? Erich said the 1st crossover I returned was not damaged and worked fine. If the crossover is good and the speaker is good what would stop the bass from transmitting via the woofer but allow the voice coil to work? Whew!
Maybe when it was powered down something reset on the I nukes? Im just spit balling here.

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post #8 of 34 Old 06-08-2014, 05:10 PM - Thread Starter
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No, not all 3 just 1. Its the same speaker a second time. I DID hear some distortion out of my second speaker when speaker #1 bass stopped working so I just turned everything off. Then when I re started that's when speaker #1 bass was dead, the voice coil still works. On speaker #2 which started to distort still works fine, NO damage. Im trying to help Erich and myself figure out why this happened a second time. Unless it is my woofer causing the crossover to malfunction. Is that possible? They speakers are not turned up loud. I could have a conversation with someone, no need to yell. If there is a place I cant test on my crossover to determine if its bad or good Ill be happy to do so before I ship the crossover back.

Thanks, I know this sounds confusing.

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post #9 of 34 Old 06-08-2014, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
 Then when I re started that's when speaker #1 bass was dead, the voice coil still works.

 

What do you mean by voice coil? The compression driver?

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post #10 of 34 Old 06-08-2014, 05:13 PM - Thread Starter
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If you have the DSP version just enable digital crossovers, that would prove if it was the drivers or XO.

IF I enable DSP will the bass and voice coil work on the 12" woofer? and if I enable and the bass is still dead.. Then it IS the crossover board correct?

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post #11 of 34 Old 06-08-2014, 05:16 PM - Thread Starter
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No the voice coil on the 12" woofer. If I place my ear up to the driver I can hear "voices" but there is NO bass output at all. The C.D. works fine. NO issues that at all. The 12" driver has a voice coil correct? lol That would be the midrange voice fill. Its a voice coil woofer correct.

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post #12 of 34 Old 06-08-2014, 05:20 PM
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Alright, so the audio still comes out of the speaker but just the bass is missing? To me that sounds like a crossover issue.

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post #13 of 34 Old 06-08-2014, 05:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, it makes a distorted sound, sound turning on/off then the bass just dies. I guess I should have referred to them as Left, Center, and Right Speaker instead of speaker #1 and #2. Its actually my Center speaker. I am using the same I nuke 1000 to power it. I just removed the woofer and crossover to swap with my Left Speaker. I lay the woofer on top of the speaker, swap crossovers and the woofer works, I have bass again. Then I remove the (working Left ch. woofer) and connect to the broken crossover and NO bass. So it has to be the Crossover. If I can test anywhere on the board Ill be glad to do so. I just hope this doesn't keep happening. What are the odds that Erich sent me 2 defective crossovers? Unless the components themselves were bad. But im sure they are tested before they are shipped? Is there somewhere I can test on my bad crossover that produces the "bass" ? I dunno.

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post #14 of 34 Old 06-08-2014, 06:22 PM
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I'm pretty sure the Tempest can handle the power of that amplifier if it's crossed over to a subwoofer. Bridged it's 1000 watts into 4 ohms right? Less going towards an 8 ohm speaker. Honestly, I can't believe anyone could stay in the same room with them getting anywhere near that much power. eek.gif But crossed over to a sub, they should handle that amp okay. Now if you're listening to really bass heavy music full range with no sub, then you could have problems on frequencies lower than 35hz if you were really pushing that amp hard.

But the problem is following the amp isn't it? You said you hooked the same amp to a second speaker, heard the same thing starting and shut it down? If so, that sounds like the problem, I just don't know what the amp could actually be doing to cause the problem.
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post #15 of 34 Old 06-08-2014, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlhaudio View Post

What are the odds that Erich sent me 2 defective crossovers? Unless the components themselves were bad.

That would be crazy bad luck. No one has ever sent back a non working pre-assembled crossover. I couldn't find anything wrong but it made sense to send you a new one either way just so you could have a different one.

I still have the crossover you sent me. I did mention it to forum member Bwaslo just a few weeks ago that it bothered me not knowing why you were having an issue with the crossover, but it was okay for me.

When you got both crossovers, they were working fine. To have two crossovers work okay, then fail quickly in the same speaker hooked to the same amp would be crazy odds.
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post #16 of 34 Old 06-08-2014, 06:43 PM - Thread Starter
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I am just as perplexed. Since the crossover is removed, I was going to remove my good crossover from my Left channel and mount that inside the box using the same woofer, CD, and amp. The only item being different is the bad crossover. IF it happens again, then its either the woofer causing some sort of distortion or the Inuke itself. (but how would I trouble shoot that) Its an easy controlled test. Im certainly not driving the speakers loud, they play at a comfortable level. I even had my kids cleaning the other end of the basement and we could converse while the music was playing.

Just to make certain I read your reply email correctly. You stated the crossover I returned was still in working condition, you found nothing wrong with it?

I'll be more that happy to simulate any test you want me to conduct. Let me know what I can do on my end. I don't want to keep sending good crossovers back and forth through the mail. Especially if they work. I have not messed with a lot of setting on my I nuke, would you like me to change any of the DSP setting? Any testing with a mic? Really, anything you can think of or other members. I feel pretty crappy about this, not to mention. I don't want it to happen again next month. mad.gif

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post #17 of 34 Old 06-08-2014, 06:56 PM
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Test the speakers on a receiver.

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post #18 of 34 Old 06-08-2014, 06:57 PM
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To me it seems like it would be the woofer. I say this because you said that you could hear the voices though the woofer, but, that it had no bass. The voice coil is not called a voice coil because it produces voices! It is a primary component on even drivers that never produce voices, like subwoofers for instances. This is to me the obvious problem, you guys are just over thinking this situation. Again, if the woofer produces faint voices that just have no bass, this is a woofer problem. The OP thinks that the voice coil is working because he hears faint voices from it, and because of that he thinks that the "voice coil" is working. You have a defective woofer my friend!
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post #19 of 34 Old 06-08-2014, 07:11 PM
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yea im gonna go with defective woofer as well. it works when cold but once it heats up something expands and comes loose causing it to fail. would explain why it worked again with the new xover and then stopped again after a bit

and FWIW ive hooked my tempests up to an EP4000 and my ears may have been bleeding but the speakers were fine

bridged inuke 1k @ 8 ohms is only ~600 watts max
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post #20 of 34 Old 06-08-2014, 07:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, that would make sense. I play it for a few hours, it warms up and stops working. If I go with that theory, I can re install the crossover I thought was bad and everything should work fine. In an hour or so, It should crap out again. I'll be up north Tue, I'll give that a shot and post my findings.

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post #21 of 34 Old 06-08-2014, 08:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlhaudio View Post

Yes, that would make sense. I play it for a few hours, it warms up and stops working. If I go with that theory, I can re install the crossover I thought was bad and everything should work fine. In an hour or so, It should crap out again. I'll be up north Tue, I'll give that a shot and post my findings.


If you have to take a woofer out to change the crossover out as well, might want to just run with the woofer out so you have one less thing to replace/swap it with a known good speaker. It'll give you a chance to feel around the magnet or smell if it's doing something funky too.  If the problem follows the woofer then you have the answer.  That's the nice thing with having a few of a kind :) It's also advisable to remove and reinstall the driver as few times as possible because the holes might get enlarged over time and require bigger screws that might not look the same.

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post #22 of 34 Old 06-08-2014, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlhaudio View Post

I removed a woofer from speaker #2 and connected it to the broken crossover ( I wanted to determine if it was the board or it the woofer blew ). I had the same problem. I then removed the broken crossover and replaced it with a good one from speaker #2. I head both voice coils from the 12" woofer. I had bass and voice. Just to double check I connected the waveguide and woofer from speaker #2 to what I determined was a bad crossover. I duplicated the same problem. The bass was dead.

^That should rule out the woofer as the source of the problem.

Connect the bad crossover to the woofer and CD and without mounting it or the woofer back in the cabinet wiggle all of the wires on the top side of the PCB where they go into the board with a pair of pliers with music playing. If any of those connections are a problem you should hear the woofer cut in and out when you wiggle the loose one.

If this happens again quickly swap speakers to rule out the Inuke as the source of the problem.
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post #23 of 34 Old 06-09-2014, 07:14 AM
 
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Since he switched the woofer, and it still didn't work, doesn't that rule out the woofer? Both woofers work fine on his other crossover. Maybe he can try his "broken" woofer in his other speaker for a few hours and see what happens?

Maybe the connection on the speaker that brings the speaker wire in and gives power to the crossover becomes loose after a couple hours of music, or something?
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post #24 of 34 Old 06-09-2014, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlhaudio View Post

Yes, the same I nuke 1000 dsp. I will also mention it started to distort on a second speaker but I shut the I nuke off before anything happened.


If the 2nd speaker was working fine, then you hooked up the same amp to it and then that speaker began to have problems, wouldn't the amp be the cause?
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post #25 of 34 Old 06-09-2014, 01:22 PM
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Reading through this sounds like the process of elimination was started all wrong...now its all confusing.....I would start over....speakers assembled and when it starts happening, swap whole speakers...not parts to see if the problem moves to new location. eliminate whole speakers first, if its not speakers move backwards till you find it., could even be in a speakon connector or something.
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post #26 of 34 Old 06-09-2014, 02:37 PM
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Even before that, I would swap the Left and Right cabinets to see if the problem moves.
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post #27 of 34 Old 06-09-2014, 04:52 PM
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From reading the post it sounds like it started working again when you swapped stuff around. I always check the connections I made first. No offense, but the field made connections are the most likely point for a failure to occur. Did you use spade connectors at the woofer? Do they fit snug on the terminals? Did you crimp them to the wire? How is the connection? Check the wire from crossover to woofer. While the pre-made boards are nice and convenient I prefer to solder all connections to crossovers and speakers inside a cabinet. Hope you get it figured out.
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post #28 of 34 Old 06-10-2014, 04:59 PM - Thread Starter
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I just returned up north excited to start troubleshooting. I connected the speaker with the defective crossover which is now working perfectly. Perhaps it is the woofer, I'll let it run for an hour or so and see if the bass drops out again.

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post #29 of 34 Old 06-10-2014, 09:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Well after 4 hours I could NOT duplicate the failure. I reconnected my 3 inukes to my 3 Tempests and "boom" I lost the bass. I disconnected from my failed Tempest and connected to my QSC 2150 and I lost the midrange. So, Its a BAD Inuke. UGH! I decided to experiment with my subs a little. I DIY 2 Dayton 15" Ultimax subs (dual voice coil).
I connected it in series. I believe this makes it 4 ohms correct. I connected the terminal ends to opposite ends of the woofer then connected a single wire from the other + to -. (Could I have just connected one side to the terminals and had the same effect)?
My other question is which amp to power it. I have an 2 Inuke 1000dsp which I connected just to see how it sounds. (factory settings) I hear bass but I don't see any excursion on my sub or see the woofer moving in/out. I had to place my hand against it to feel vibrations. Maybe the Dayton is made of tighter materials. I connected the Crown XLS1500 to the other sub which did provide a little more bass. I could hear a difference but again, no excursion. I guess I assumed something was wrong, I'm used to seeing the woofer move around during bass notes.
The Inuke is 1000 watts @ 4ohms while the Crown is 1550 watts @ 4 ohms. The crown does cost more but the Inuke has DSP. Will DSP make a big difference when comparing the two? Will the sub sound better when its setup using DSP or is it negligible.


I'm sure it will take a week to receive my replacement I nuke so I have time to experiment with each amps setup. The crown only has a HI-Pass OR Low-Pass adjustment. I cant seem to change both. I think it currently set to bridged, Low-Pass 94 hz. Should I change that setting or use Hi-pass.

What setting should I use on my I-nuke? I just downloaded the software onto my laptop so I can make changes tomorrow. OR am I underpowered? Do I need an I nuke 3000 to push the woofer?

Frustrating week. biggrin.gif

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post #30 of 34 Old 06-11-2014, 05:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlhaudio View Post

Well after 4 hours I could NOT duplicate the failure. I reconnected my 3 inukes to my 3 Tempests and "boom" I lost the bass. I disconnected from my failed Tempest and connected to my QSC 2150 and I lost the midrange. So, Its a BAD Inuke. UGH! I decided to experiment with my subs a little. I DIY 2 Dayton 15" Ultimax subs (dual voice coil).
I connected it in series. I believe this makes it 4 ohms correct. I connected the terminal ends to opposite ends of the woofer then connected a single wire from the other + to -. (Could I have just connected one side to the terminals and had the same effect)?
My other question is which amp to power it. I have an 2 Inuke 1000dsp which I connected just to see how it sounds. (factory settings) I hear bass but I don't see any excursion on my sub or see the woofer moving in/out. I had to place my hand against it to feel vibrations. Maybe the Dayton is made of tighter materials. I connected the Crown XLS1500 to the other sub which did provide a little more bass. I could hear a difference but again, no excursion. I guess I assumed something was wrong, I'm used to seeing the woofer move around during bass notes.
The Inuke is 1000 watts @ 4ohms while the Crown is 1550 watts @ 4 ohms. The crown does cost more but the Inuke has DSP. Will DSP make a big difference when comparing the two? Will the sub sound better when its setup using DSP or is it negligible.


I'm sure it will take a week to receive my replacement I nuke so I have time to experiment with each amps setup. The crown only has a HI-Pass OR Low-Pass adjustment. I cant seem to change both. I think it currently set to bridged, Low-Pass 94 hz. Should I change that setting or use Hi-pass.

What setting should I use on my I-nuke? I just downloaded the software onto my laptop so I can make changes tomorrow. OR am I underpowered? Do I need an I nuke 3000 to push the woofer?

Frustrating week. biggrin.gif

If you ever decide to sell one or more of your iNuke1000dsp's then please send me a PM because I would like to buy some!
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