DIY LMS 5400 or pb13ultra ? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 28 Old 06-09-2014, 02:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Hello,

I am a new comer here.

I am about to change my D6sub. My room is 25m2 and I am ready for DIY solution.
I have seen the sealed LMS 5400 and by adding the price of the amp it reachs approximately the priceof the svs pb13ultra.

I am searching for these criterias: 20Hz with great outpout, precision, tightness and controlled bass.

which one will match my expectations: Pb13ultra or sealed LMS 5400?

If there is a winner : will it be by far or is just small differences?

Thanks!smile.gif

PS: english is not my native language so please forgive if mistakes above:D
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post #2 of 28 Old 06-09-2014, 02:46 AM
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If you go here and see the LMS-U test results, you can compare them to the PB13Ultra results.

http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=3&mset=35

LMS-U should win in pretty much every regard, except near tune in 15hz/20hz mode, you can see the pb has around 3-4db on it, but drops like a rock after that because it's ported.
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post #3 of 28 Old 06-09-2014, 02:55 AM
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post #4 of 28 Old 06-09-2014, 03:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sibuna View Post

can you only do 1 sub or can you build 2?

I have a budget for only 1 (currently I have 2 D6sub that I will have to sell to get the new one)
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post #5 of 28 Old 06-09-2014, 03:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsnasty View Post

If you go here and see the LMS-U test results, you can compare them to the PB13Ultra results.

http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=3&mset=35

LMS-U should win in pretty much every regard, except near tune in 15hz/20hz mode, you can see the pb has around 3-4db on it, but drops like a rock after that because it's ported.

Yes I have seen these tests. It gives an idea. What about the tightness, precision and control? LMS should also be better?

I have also seen w15gti un ported cabinet. Is it at the same Level (output ans SQ) than the LMS?
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post #6 of 28 Old 06-09-2014, 03:09 AM
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I was asking more about the space, as you could build multiples with a cheaper driver and potentially get a better end result

for the cost of the LMS you could build 4 with the SI18 or the Dayton 18HO, or 2 with the UXL-18

but if you can only do 1 do the LMS, with enough power and some EQ it will best the PB13
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post #7 of 28 Old 06-09-2014, 03:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Understood. So 3 or 4 sub is not possible for me.
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post #8 of 28 Old 06-09-2014, 04:28 AM
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It's much much better with 4 wink.gif

The LMS is one of the best subs there is.



I guess you could always start with 1 LMS and add more later (that's what I did).
But you'd be better off with dual UXL-18's if you don't ever plan on buying multiple LMS's.
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post #9 of 28 Old 06-09-2014, 05:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes it could be a solution to add another one in the future. Any comparison with the w15gti regarding the criterias in my 1st message ??
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post #10 of 28 Old 06-09-2014, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBond07 View Post

I have a budget for only 1 (currently I have 2 D6sub that I will have to sell to get the new one)

If you've budgeted for one LMS 5400 you could get two UXL-18's and easily beat both of those setups, and also benefit from having two subs which will help smooth out your bass response and help reduce any bass nulls.
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post #11 of 28 Old 06-09-2014, 12:09 PM
 
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two UXL-18 >> 1 LMS-U. Absolutely go with 2 drivers if you have the space, it will be much better as it will smooth the frequency and give you a bit more output.

Easily powered with a $400.00 inuke6000dsp
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post #12 of 28 Old 06-09-2014, 01:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank. I didn't know this speaker.

Does it sound clean and tight ? What is the best enclosure, ported? If yes what would be the volume (reasonnable I mean biggrin.gif)?

I also thought to go with 2 w15gti. Any comparaison with 2 w15gti solution?
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post #13 of 28 Old 06-09-2014, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBond07 View Post

Thank. I didn't know this speaker.

Does it sound clean and tight ? What is the best enclosure, ported? If yes what would be the volume (reasonnable I mean biggrin.gif)?

I also thought to go with 2 w15gti. Any comparaison with 2 w15gti solution?

I know that mine sound tight and clean too me. smile.gif

The UXL-18 works great in plenty of different designs, from a 4cu/ft sealed setup, 5cu/ft ported design like the Marty cube or Erich's new ported design from the diysoundgroup.com that's about to release, or a ported design like my 13cu/ft ported cabinets all the way up to a large folded horn design. Overall its just a great driver.

Below 20hz the LMS-U 5400 would have a 1-1.5dB advantage over the UXL-18 but above 20hz the UXL has that same advantage over the LMS-U 5400 but costing half as much smile.gif
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post #14 of 28 Old 06-09-2014, 01:45 PM
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What do you want is really what matters. Like, what will they be used for, theater room, music, a mix between the two? How much space do you have for the enclosure(s)? If you do not really want under 10-15hz then vented/ported would be something to consider. Your space and desired frequency response will be a factor for the design you choose.

And, welcome to AVSForums!
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post #15 of 28 Old 06-09-2014, 01:49 PM
 
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The easiest build is 4 cu ft sealed boxes. They are very tight and clean

If you want super loud at 20 hz and don't care about 10 hz, then ported is best. (6 cu ft)

If you want the best frequency response ( like down to single digits) sealed is best. (4 cu ft)

If you want ridiculously loud than a huge ported sub is best ( like 13 cu. ft)
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post #16 of 28 Old 06-09-2014, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBond07 View Post

Thank. I didn't know this speaker.

Does it sound clean and tight ? What is the best enclosure, ported? If yes what would be the volume (reasonnable I mean biggrin.gif)?

I also thought to go with 2 w15gti. Any comparaison with 2 w15gti solution?

W15gti's are really good subs, and can be found cheaper then the UXL if you are lucky, else they are pretty expensive.
I suspect for HT the UXL would still be better as it has more excursion, similar to that of an LMS-U,
They are still quite good though, and underrated. You can't really go wrong with multiples of any of these 3 drivers.
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post #17 of 28 Old 06-09-2014, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWagstaff View Post

The easiest build is 4 cu ft sealed boxes. They are very tight and clean

If you want super loud at 20 hz and don't care about 10 hz, then ported is best. (6 cu ft)

If you want the best frequency response ( like down to single digits) sealed is best. (4 cu ft)

If you want ridiculously loud than a huge ported sub is best ( like 13 cu. ft)

Some of your points aren't completely correct, my ported cabinet is flat to 10hz. So I have some serious output at 10hz and even below that.

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post #18 of 28 Old 06-09-2014, 02:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Some of your points aren't completely correct, my ported cabinet is flat to 10hz. So I have some serious output at 10hz and even below that.


you have 6 cu ft ported enclosures that are flat to 10 hz?!! o.O
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post #19 of 28 Old 06-09-2014, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWagstaff View Post

you have 6 cu ft ported enclosures that are flat to 10 hz?!! o.O

No I have 13cu/ft ported cabinets that are flat to 10hz, see post #13 where I said that.
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post #20 of 28 Old 06-10-2014, 01:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Some of your points aren't completely correct, my ported cabinet is flat to 10hz. So I have some serious output at 10hz and even below that.


This graph is very misleading. Fix the scaling, remove the smoothing, then make that claim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Okay, here's another measurement with it turned down a little...lol smile.gif


looks like a clear knee around 14hz, and that looks smoothed still...
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post #21 of 28 Old 06-10-2014, 02:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBond07 View Post

Hello,

I am a new comer here.

I am about to change my D6sub. My room is 25m2 and I am ready for DIY solution.
I have seen the sealed LMS 5400 and by adding the price of the amp it reachs approximately the priceof the svs pb13ultra.

I am searching for these criterias: 20Hz with great outpout, precision, tightness and controlled bass.

which one will match my expectations: Pb13ultra or sealed LMS 5400?

If there is a winner : will it be by far or is just small differences?

Thanks!smile.gif

PS: english is not my native language so please forgive if mistakes above:D

Build a ported box for LMS 5400, tune to 15-20hz depending on your desire / size limits, enjoy insane amounts of bass. You could also use a UXL-18 for similar results and less cost. Sealed subs are at such a disadvantage.
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post #22 of 28 Old 06-10-2014, 06:27 AM
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When is the uxl 18 back in Stock? Any decent looking 6 cube ported designs for it out yet? Moving from a 1700cubed family room to a 5000cubic foot family room open to a large kitchen. So thinking my dual opposed sealed AV15H boxes simply won't cut it. Unless I go 24" cube with dual 2500 gram 18" Passive rads x 2 or 3 boxes instead of larger 18" ported boxes (needs decent waf).

 

My DIY Subs ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1233892

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J Dunlavy:.. if you stop to think about it, no loudspeaker can sound more accurate than it measures.

 

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post #23 of 28 Old 06-10-2014, 06:53 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

No I have 13cu/ft ported cabinets that are flat to 10hz, see post #13 where I said that.

Well yeah, that's what I was implying with my list, 13 cu ft ported you get everything, extension and SPL, it's just huge. but with 6 cu ft ported you get loud but not super low extension. I never said you couldn't get low extension with any ported cabinet, you just can't with a 6 cu ft ported cabinet.
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post #24 of 28 Old 06-21-2014, 09:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Hello!

So I am about to order my speaker. I decreased a bit my budget. I hesitate between w12gti (will be ported) and Dayton HO 18 (sealed otherwise it becomes too big).

I am searching for clean, tightness, and power at 20Hz. Which one is the best for my criterias ?

Thanks!

Last edited by JBond07; 06-21-2014 at 09:37 AM.
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post #25 of 28 Old 06-21-2014, 09:27 AM
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Doesn't matter what you get, you still need more than two for even response for the best sound quality.
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post #26 of 28 Old 06-21-2014, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBond07 View Post
Hello!

So I am about to order my speaker. I decreased a bit my budget. I hesitate between w12gti (will be ported) and Dayton HO 18 (sealed otherwise it becomes too big).

I am searching for clean, tightness, and power at 20Hz. Which one is the best for my criterias ?

Thanks!
You decreased it more than a bit, you can buy 4 HO's for the price of one 5400!
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post #27 of 28 Old 06-21-2014, 08:27 PM
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I was in the same spot as you some months back. Decided to go the DIY route (with no prior experience). What I did was get Sanway's FP14k clone (as I saw notnyt are using them), miniDSP 4x10 HD (because it's a cheap alternative with a helpful community) and one LMS U driver.

After relentlessly updating tracking info for when the gear would arrive (live in Norway, so sea freight, haha), and sleepless nights thinking I might have taken water over my head I finally started the building process and made a very simple 3.7ft3 sealed test enclosure. The process was fun, and when I first turned it on and tried it, well, I was simply blown away. That night I was playing music insanely loud, drinking a ton of screwdrivers and probably had the happiest night of my life. As for the next day, not so much!

Luckily, the miniDSP 4x10 HD and FP14k clone will happily accommodate a second sub, so the second will be far cheaper than the first one as you already have the gear needed. After a weeks time, an order for a second driver was in. It'll soon arrive, and I'm researching my next two enclosures. I could have lived happily ever after with one in my simple enclosure, but since the second sub is so much cheaper than the first and the process of building so much fun, it was impossible to resist getting a second one and working towards something even better (even though I've got problems understanding how that would be possible). Also, there is this little thing called OCD and it really likes symmetrical looking systems,

As for the PB13Ultra, I heard it at a friends house with Klipsch RF7 and it's not even in the same league when it comes to sound quality. Yes, it's good, plays loud and all, but ... niet, not the same quality at all. The biggest problem with LMS is that the distortion is so low that YOU CAN'T GET ENOUGH!!! You just want to make your ears bleed and go deaf, but at least you'll be happy when it goes.

My brother has two Velodyne DD18 (not plus), and even though they sound great, I think that the LMS is even better. My little sister's boyfriend is a huge dubstep fan, and when he heard what the LMS could do, he was basically showing a side to himself he has suppressed in my presence up until that moment when the bass kicked in; hands pumping, head banging, face grinning, hahahaha. It's just fantastic! The best invention since women I'd say!

</fanboy>
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post #28 of 28 Old 06-22-2014, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBond07 View Post
Hello!
So I am about to order my speaker. I decreased a bit my budget. I hesitate between w12gti (will be ported) and Dayton HO 18 (sealed otherwise it becomes too big).
I am searching for clean, tightness, and power at 20Hz. Which one is the best for my criterias ?
Thanks!
For sealed:

The LMS-18 produces 12.5% distortion @ 20hz @ 108db, and 14.8% distortion @ 15hz @ 100db
The UXL-18 produces 25% distortion @ 20hz @ 108db, and 19.5% distortion @ 15hz @ 100db
The HO-18 produces 32% distortion @ 20hz @ 103db and 19.5% distortion @ 15hz @ 95db
The PB13Ultra produces 45% distortion @ 20hz @ 100db and 30.6% distortion @ 15hz @ 92db.

I have no idea what a w12gti does but it's probably even worse... or no better than the PB13, at best.

So quad HO-18's would get you 9% distortion @ 20hz @ 109db, and 32% distortion @ 20hz @ 115db.
and 7.7% distortion @ 15hz @ 102db and 19.5% distortion @ 15hz @ 107db.
For a similar cost as one LMS-18, but... now you have to make 4 6cuft boxes to get those numbers, and double the wattage (i.e full-rated power, otherwise subtract 3db.)
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Last edited by BassThatHz; 06-22-2014 at 02:15 PM.
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