NU3000DSP and REW help - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 28 Old 06-10-2014, 04:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey everyone,

I need a little help with my NU3000DSP and REW. I've read through the rew guide thread extensively and must be doing something wrong.

Here is a screenshot of the measurement I made just a couple of minutes ago:


The blue is before applying any filters and the red is after setting the recommended filters in the Behringer NU3000DSP from REW.

As you can see, there is no change in the shape of the frequency response. I'm thinking I have to be either measuring wrong or inputting the filters in the NU3000DSP wrong.

Any suggestions?
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post #2 of 28 Old 06-10-2014, 04:18 PM - Thread Starter
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And I realize that with one sub in my very large, hard floor, open concept living room, that I am not going to be flat from 10hz - 100hz but I would like to understand why I am not seeing any changes in response from the DSP.
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post #3 of 28 Old 06-10-2014, 10:17 PM
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You must have missed a step. Did you match target to response ?
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post #4 of 28 Old 06-10-2014, 11:45 PM
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Looks to me like the filter settings weren't taken correctly by the inuke.

I would double check that.
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post #5 of 28 Old 06-12-2014, 12:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post
You must have missed a step. Did you match target to response ?
I'm not sitting in front of my home computer so I may have the terms wrong but when I took the measurement and went to the EQ function in REW. I adjusted the target to 60 dBs as that minimized the amount of positive gain necessary.

REW gave me a list of EQ settings and I input those into the iNuke software and stored them to the iNuke.



To answer kevings question, how can I verify that the iNuke is using the EQ settings?
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post #6 of 28 Old 06-12-2014, 04:33 PM
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I would take a base measurement in rew. then go into the inuke and do drastic cut, say right at 50hz, with the lowest q possible, and the max negative gain possible. Then measure again in rew. Did the graph change drastically? if so then your settings are taking, if not, id say it might be because your forgetting to hit the "ok/enter" and then load that profile to your amp ( what i just wrote assumes your using the inuke software on a computer/laptop and connected to your amp via usb )

With this in mind, you could try to enter the filter settings on the inuke itself, by using the inukes orange LCD screen, and surrounding buttons. Give that a try as well, since doing this will ensure that they are being loaded into the profile that is active on your inuke at the moment.

Finally, if you have face time ( iphone ) , and you still need help. PM me, Ill give you my cell and I can walk you through it.

Last edited by kevings; 06-12-2014 at 04:39 PM.
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post #7 of 28 Old 06-12-2014, 11:54 PM
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Did you toggle the light "on" on the filters themselves?
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post #8 of 28 Old 06-13-2014, 05:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clausdk View Post
Did you toggle the light "on" on the filters themselves?
clausdk,

I think you may have found the solution. You mean in the iNuke software, clicking on the actual filter itself before saving the config to the amp?

I didn't even realize you could have a filter programmed but not "on". I will try both yours and kevings suggestions when I get home today. Yesterday we had people working on our kitchen cabinets so I really couldn't test.
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post #9 of 28 Old 06-13-2014, 05:42 AM
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Yes, I made that mystake myself. Simply mouse click on it so it turns orange, if its greyed out its not active. Hope it works, quick fix then
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post #10 of 28 Old 06-14-2014, 12:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, I made that mystake myself. Simply mouse click on it so it turns orange, if its greyed out its not active. Hope it works, quick fix then
So that wasn't it. All of them were orange.

Do I need to disconnect the speakers from the receiver when doing these tests?

And I need to try kevings suggestion.
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post #11 of 28 Old 06-14-2014, 11:06 PM
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Ok.

You can use the inuke Dsp console with the speakers attached, I dont think you mean while playing something on them though. You could probably toggle on a filter during a sweep though without problems.
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post #12 of 28 Old 06-15-2014, 01:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyrcks9901 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by clausdk View Post
Yes, I made that mystake myself. Simply mouse click on it so it turns orange, if its greyed out its not active. Hope it works, quick fix then
So that wasn't it. All of them were orange.

Do I need to disconnect the speakers from the receiver when doing these tests?

And I need to try kevings suggestion.

Yes. If you are measuring subs and then trying to tune them, they should be the only speaker playing because other speakers will affect the response.

Make sure when you plug the usb cable into the inuke that you connect with the screen that pops up. In the software, look at the top and it should say "connected". Don't go to the settings and click connect, because for some reason it will disconnect you and will say "not connected" at the top.

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post #13 of 28 Old 06-16-2014, 12:42 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm not sure what was wrong before but it seems to be better now. I did nothing different this time around...strange.

My latest graph with 1/12 smoothing is attached...

I'm pretty happy with it as it's crossed at 100Hz and hopefully the speakers take over from there.

My next question is why is it reading the spl so low? I'm hitting output clipping at a couple of spots on this measurement and it's loud enough that I'm uncomfortable in the room during the measurement.
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post #14 of 28 Old 06-16-2014, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyrcks9901 View Post
I'm not sure what was wrong before but it seems to be better now. I did nothing different this time around...strange.

My latest graph with 1/12 smoothing is attached...

I'm pretty happy with it as it's crossed at 100Hz and hopefully the speakers take over from there.

My next question is why is it reading the spl so low? I'm hitting output clipping at a couple of spots on this measurement and it's loud enough that I'm uncomfortable in the room during the measurement.
You need to calibrate REW with what level your speakers are at. Click on the "spl meter" tab and let it send out a white noise tone. With you spl meter, check the level where the mic is located at and enter that spl number into REW. boom, you're done.

MY THEATER......The Thompson Theater 11.9 channels

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post #15 of 28 Old 06-16-2014, 01:16 PM
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Sounds like your not calibrating first.

Open up the spl tab, click on the calibrate button, follow the onscreen directions that pop up, and u should be good to go at that point.
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post #16 of 28 Old 06-16-2014, 01:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyrcks9901 View Post
I'm not sure what was wrong before but it seems to be better now. I did nothing different this time around...strange.

My latest graph with 1/12 smoothing is attached...

I'm pretty happy with it as it's crossed at 100Hz and hopefully the speakers take over from there.

My next question is why is it reading the spl so low? I'm hitting output clipping at a couple of spots on this measurement and it's loud enough that I'm uncomfortable in the room during the measurement.
You need to calibrate REW with what level your speakers are at. Click on the "spl meter" tab and let it send out a white noise tone. With you spl meter, check the level where the mic is located at and enter that spl number into REW. boom, you're done.
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Sounds like your not calibrating first.

Open up the spl tab, click on the calibrate button, follow the onscreen directions that pop up, and u should be good to go at that point.
Do I need a separate SPL meter? I thought the UMIK could measure SPL directly?

Btw, thanks everyone for all the help so far!
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post #17 of 28 Old 06-16-2014, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyrcks9901 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyrcks9901 View Post
I'm not sure what was wrong before but it seems to be better now. I did nothing different this time around...strange.

My latest graph with 1/12 smoothing is attached...

I'm pretty happy with it as it's crossed at 100Hz and hopefully the speakers take over from there.

My next question is why is it reading the spl so low? I'm hitting output clipping at a couple of spots on this measurement and it's loud enough that I'm uncomfortable in the room during the measurement.
You need to calibrate REW with what level your speakers are at. Click on the "spl meter" tab and let it send out a white noise tone. With you spl meter, check the level where the mic is located at and enter that spl number into REW. boom, you're done.
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Originally Posted by kevings View Post
Sounds like your not calibrating first.

Open up the spl tab, click on the calibrate button, follow the onscreen directions that pop up, and u should be good to go at that point.
Do I need a separate SPL meter? I thought the UMIK could measure SPL directly?

Btw, thanks everyone for all the help so far!
Yes. Your UMIK will measure perfect but the software has no idea what spl is what. That is why you have to calibrate it so it knows 80db is 80db and not 20db or so.

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post #18 of 28 Old 06-16-2014, 01:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes. Your UMIK will measure perfect but the software has no idea what spl is what. That is why you have to calibrate it so it knows 80db is 80db and not 20db or so.
So I do or don't need a separate SPL meter to calibrate?

I'll be going out to Lowes a little later tonight and can stop by Radio Shack too if needed.
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post #19 of 28 Old 06-16-2014, 01:29 PM
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Even though your spl numbers are off, you still have a good idea of what your sub is doing. If there is not any eq applied, then your sub has a nice base line chart to begin with. How did you take that measurement? inside with the mic close to the driver? Also, start the measurement with a lower fq next time if you can.

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post #20 of 28 Old 06-16-2014, 01:29 PM
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Yes. Your UMIK will measure perfect but the software has no idea what spl is what. That is why you have to calibrate it so it knows 80db is 80db and not 20db or so.
So I do or don't need a separate SPL meter to calibrate?

I'll be going out to Lowes a little later tonight and can stop by Radio Shack too if needed.
yes. You do. You can also download an app on your phone. I do not know how accurate it is but it might be close enough. this will save you 50 or 60dollars.

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post #21 of 28 Old 06-16-2014, 01:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Even though your spl numbers are off, you still have a good idea of what your sub is doing. If there is not any eq applied, then your sub has a nice base line chart to begin with. How did you take that measurement? inside with the mic close to the driver? Also, start the measurement with a lower fq next time if you can.
That was with a lot of eq which I just realized I did not save to the iNukes memory so I'll be applying the filters recommended by REW again. I'll attach a picture to another post of a before and after for reference.

The mic is located near the listening position but I will need to get a mic stand for a measurement at the listening position.

I was getting some funny sounds from the sub when I started much lower than 20hz, not sure why, any thoughts? Plus with a house that completely open concept with 9.5ft ceilings, I estimate I'm at about 7000cuft if I shut all the bedroom doors. They're normally all open though which is about 18,000 cuft of space. I doubt I will get any meaningful spl below 20Hz...

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yes. You do. You can also download an app on your phone. I do not know how accurate it is but it might be close enough. this will save you 50 or 60dollars.
I'll give it a shot.
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post #22 of 28 Old 06-16-2014, 01:57 PM
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What kind of sounds? Mechanical sounds or eq sounds such as high noise floor? If you boost to much on the low end you can get both actually. What I like to do when I tune is cut to get a flat response and not boost.

What sub are you using? Ported or sealed? If it is ported you can start the sweep a few db before tune.

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post #23 of 28 Old 06-16-2014, 02:06 PM - Thread Starter
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What kind of sounds? Mechanical sounds or eq sounds such as high noise floor? If you boost to much on the low end you can get both actually. What I like to do when I tune is cut to get a flat response and not boost.

What sub are you using? Ported or sealed? If it is ported you can start the sweep a few db before tune.
Pretty sure it was mechanical. It's a sealed Dayton 15" Ultimax in a 3cuft flat pack.

It's mostly cuts. Here's a screenshot of the filters as a work in progress. Still a couple peaks I need to tame but changing one filter always screws up the others. That's with 1/12 filtering.
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post #24 of 28 Old 06-16-2014, 02:14 PM
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Turn the volume down and try again. Also, it could be the gain on the amp is to high? Sometimes and amp clipping can sound like mechanical issues with a driver.

How do you have the sub connected to the amp? Bridged or on one channel?

edit....I see that it is an Ultimax, so you might have a voice coil per channel?

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post #25 of 28 Old 06-16-2014, 02:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Turn the volume down and try again. Also, it could be the gain on the amp is to high? Sometimes and amp clipping can sound like mechanical issues with a driver.
It doesn't seem to be doing it today. It was a couple days ago and I think it was just too much volume, whether from the amp or to the amp, either way it's not doing it now. I've started measuring from 15Hz and you can see in this graph that 20Hz is just above my -3dB point.

EDIT: Saw you edited while I was typing. It's single channel with a limiter set on the iNuke at about 780 Watts.

I'm pretty happy with that.

Now, how do I go about EQing the normal speakers with Audyssey?
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post #26 of 28 Old 06-16-2014, 02:24 PM
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Audyssey eq's them for you. Run the audyssey test for every seat so that you get the smoothest results. The more you run audyssey tests, the easier it is for audyssey to calibrate your setup. Check your sub response after that to see if audyssey changes it more than you wanted. Sometimes audyssey can boost the low end a lot! I also, like to run my subs hotter than what audyssey sets them at.

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post #27 of 28 Old 06-16-2014, 02:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Audyssey eq's them for you. Run the audyssey test for every seat so that you get the smoothest results. The more you run audyssey tests, the easier it is for audyssey to calibrate your setup. Check your sub response after that to see if audyssey changes it more than you wanted. Sometimes audyssey can boost the low end a lot! I also, like to run my subs hotter than what audyssey sets them at.
So just hook the speakers back up and run Audyssey? I wan't sure if I had to do anything different like I did with the sub by disconnecting the speakers.
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post #28 of 28 Old 06-16-2014, 02:41 PM
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No. You have to have everything connected. The reason why you disconnect the speakers when running sweeps is because you do not want your speakers measuring with your sub. That would mess up your tune if you are adjusting to every speaker and not just your sub. Audyssey will measure each speaker individually and apply filters and set delays as needed. Put your sub where you want it to be and then run audyssey.

Also, when I tune my subs, I always put the mic in the main listening position. You tune the sub there because that is where it counts. You might want to consider that.

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