*help -> WAVEGUIDE speakers Fusion-10 Pure speaker kit and Eminence Delta 10A - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 92 Old 06-19-2014, 09:36 AM
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I'd recommend you do some snooping around to learn more about the required frequency range and things. It's hard to give an "in depth analysis" of this stuff on a forum post. Search around and see what you can find. Or listen to your wallet and get the Quad4

I should mention, the -3db at 55hz is a little misleading (my fault). The tuning is in the high 50s so there's usable output down to 55hz. F3 might technically be more like 60hz. Even higher if compared to a perfectly flat line matched at 1khz. What the bass looks like is a gradual slope down from 100hz and then a fairly smooth taper in the high 50s and then a steep slope down below 55hz. Usually in a room near a wall this translates into response down to around 50hz.
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post #32 of 92 Old 06-19-2014, 09:36 AM
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Above 18KHz, most people are relatively insensitive to these frequencies and require a boost of 50-80 dB before these frequencies can be detected relative to sounds in the 100Hz - 10KHz range. I doubt you'll notice any difference.

Mike
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post #33 of 92 Old 06-19-2014, 09:47 AM
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As far as I know the new Fusion-10 is more expensive than the old one because the crossover ended up being more expensive.

The shipping weight stays pretty much the same because the weight difference is only about 1lb per kit. The same woofer and CD are used as well.

The baffle cost isn't really going to change, so the only difference in price is the smaller waveguide which saves about $5 each if I recall. But the crossover ended up being more expensive. So when everything gets added up, there's a chance it will be more than the previous model.

Actually, all Eminence woofers went up at least $5 across the board about 3-4 months ago. So that eats up the savings from the smaller waveguide.
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post #34 of 92 Old 06-19-2014, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smittyfit View Post
Erich H -> Would you say the Fusion10 is at least twice the speaker than the fusion4?
Keep in mind that you were dead set on a pair of Overnight Sensations. Then you jumped up to the Nexus, then the Quad-4, then the Alchemy, now the Fusion-10. You should draw a line in the sand for what you really need and stay there.

Good thing the dual 8" models haven't been put up yet.....you'd go crazy!
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post #35 of 92 Old 06-19-2014, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

Good thing the dual 8" models haven't been put up yet.....you'd go crazy!
Erich, you are such a tease!
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post #36 of 92 Old 06-19-2014, 10:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Erich H -> there are going to be duel 8" models coming ups soon? Hahahaha here we go again... How would they compare to the fusion4 and fusion10?

I know I been all over the place, but I just want to get the best results I can... And now that I find out I can not take them on the plane, I need to order and so the performance to price ratio has to be VERY good or I will not be able to justify.

How long till we see the duel 8" models?

Look what these forums have done to me hahahaha, I'm a real addict!! lol
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post #37 of 92 Old 06-19-2014, 10:49 AM
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The performance to price is very good on all those kits. You gotta pick the one that meets your budget and size constraints. That's all.
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post #38 of 92 Old 06-19-2014, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post
As far as I know the new Fusion-10 is more expensive than the old one because the crossover ended up being more expensive.
I was referring to Tux's in-wall or baffle-wall Fusion-10 build, which is based on the Fusion-10 Max (not Pure), which uses the DNA350/360 instead of the DNA205 - thats where the price difference is, I believe. It's about $50 more than the Fusion-10 Pure, due to the different CD.

Anyway, looking at the roll off of the Fusion-10 Pure in a sealed box, it looks like it mates decently well with the typical boost you'd get from in-wall or baffle-wall design. Pretty cool. Might not even need any EQ at all.
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post #39 of 92 Old 06-19-2014, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
Go with 12" then!


Trouble-maker!

Symmetry pleases the eye, but it usually offends the ears where low frequencies are concerned. -Yoda Fitzmaurice
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post #40 of 92 Old 06-19-2014, 02:19 PM
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Smittyfit:

Can you give me a couple of Youtube music videos you like? You can either post them on this thread, or PM me the links. I'll run them through my Fusion 10's and report back what I think.

My setup on them right now is stereo only, no subs, run through my computer and a Pioneer VSX-D514 audio receiver, 100 wpc.
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Symmetry pleases the eye, but it usually offends the ears where low frequencies are concerned. -Yoda Fitzmaurice
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post #41 of 92 Old 06-19-2014, 05:15 PM - Thread Starter
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wvu80 -> THANK you so MUCH!! That's like amazing...

For you I believe it will be a great opportunity to potentially broaden your library. As far as I'm concerned you're in for some AWESOME music!!

Please be CRITICAL as possible. The main speaker flaws I hate: SHHHHHHH sound in voices, harshness in the top range, no midbass punch.

What is very important: perfect highs, mid range (need good punch, and easily identify the individual bass notes), high SPL, no distortion...

Wow my expectations seem high.... Lol...

Here some of my songs I listen to:

-> Really focus if you feel the punch
-> warning long intro.... But in beginning it is VERY hard to hear the first bit unless you have good speakers... Let me know if you can hear it


Tons more but that will give you an idea... I also listen to some rap/hiphop/socca/dubstep, but not interested how those sounds... As my subwoofer handles them np... Also they may be damaging to the speaker -> the drops and low 20/30hz notes.

Let me know your impressions and again thank you so much!!
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post #42 of 92 Old 06-19-2014, 05:27 PM
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Smitty, word on the street is that you like mid bass punch.

You should put that in your signature!
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post #43 of 92 Old 06-19-2014, 05:35 PM - Thread Starter
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I forgot some of my favourites lol... 80's

IE: Phil collins, fleetwood mac, zztop, eagles, etc.

Cheers
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post #44 of 92 Old 06-19-2014, 05:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Erich H -> Oh so you have heard Indeed one of my favourite

What you mean put it in my signature?
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post #45 of 92 Old 06-19-2014, 05:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Had to add this song... It sounds weak with my martin logans.

I cut them off at 150hz, makes them A LOT better than 120hz or lower... But in some songs makes some of that over 80hz bass directional... Kinda sucks... Anyways let me know how the guitar and the full/thickness of the song.

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post #46 of 92 Old 06-19-2014, 07:28 PM
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Nice song selections, Smitty!

I'll do some listening on Friday, as it is late here on Thursday night. I enjoy new music, and I enjoy good music, no matter what genre.
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Symmetry pleases the eye, but it usually offends the ears where low frequencies are concerned. -Yoda Fitzmaurice
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post #47 of 92 Old 06-19-2014, 08:27 PM - Thread Starter
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wvu80 -> thanks bro! Where I live no one likes my music hahaha.. They call it noise hahaha... And other things I won't post

Breaking Benjamin is amazing too! Check out the Diary of jane, I will not bow, crawl.

How are the volt speakers... They use the compression driver and the eminence same driver... How would the 10" version compete with the fusion4? and fusion10?

Thanks!
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post #48 of 92 Old 06-19-2014, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smittyfit View Post
I forgot some of my favourites lol... 80's

IE: Phil collins, fleetwood mac, zztop, eagles, etc.

Cheers
Thank goodness! I didn't know any of the songs you posted, and listening to the first two on headphones, I was wondering if you had any ballads for me to listen to!

Seriously, I'd like the forum community to help me know how to listen to this, because it is waaay out of my listening "comfort zone."

I can tell you already before actually putting this through the actual speakers how this is going to turn out, in general terms.

First of all, I think Smitty is going to like the "west coast sound." Think Advent speakers from the 70's-80's. Given the style of music I have heard so far, I think I am going to have to listen LOUD. In that regard, the Fusion 10's will be BY FAR the best of the speakers you have listed so far. I think you will like the Fusions 10's because they can play LOUD and not distort.

Second, I think Smitty is going to like the guitar sounds coming out of the Fusions 10's, in particular lead guitar and bass because that really hits the sweet spot in these 10" woofers.

The Fusion 10's can REALLY play the drum sounds which come out like a CRACK from these heavy metal bands.

I'll leave more comments for when I actually put the tunes through the speakers, but those are going to be my preliminary guesses.

If the community wants to help me tune the speakers for their best sound with EQ, please feel free to suggest and I'll give it a try.

I also think that after listening to the music in 2.0, I need to add a sub. It will be a fair test because Smitty's SVS will walk all over my Klipsch RW-12d. My sub will help me know how his music will play with the bottom end reinforced.

Symmetry pleases the eye, but it usually offends the ears where low frequencies are concerned. -Yoda Fitzmaurice
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post #49 of 92 Old 06-19-2014, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smittyfit View Post
wvu80 -> thanks bro! Where I live no one likes my music hahaha.. They call it noise hahaha... And other things I won't post

Breaking Benjamin is amazing too! Check out the Diary of jane, I will not bow, crawl.

How are the volt speakers... They use the compression driver and the eminence same driver... How would the 10" version compete with the fusion4? and fusion10?

Thanks!
I just don't know about the sound of those speakers, and I don't want to guess and lead you in the wrong direction.

I WILL tell you that forget the speakers with smaller drivers, you need to go BIG, the bigger the better, the bigger THAT FITS IN YOUR PRICE RANGE, the better.

BTW, I really liked the Mettalica youtube you posted.
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Symmetry pleases the eye, but it usually offends the ears where low frequencies are concerned. -Yoda Fitzmaurice
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post #50 of 92 Old 06-20-2014, 02:55 AM - Thread Starter
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wvu80 -> It makes sense what your saying that I need the larger woofers, and how the fusion woofer is designed to play lead and bass guitar sometimes in amps and concerts.... So I guess I would need something that suites my playing and listening style...

Check this one out, prob my fav metallica song.

Can't wait to hear your impressions!

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post #51 of 92 Old 06-20-2014, 02:56 AM - Thread Starter
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wvu80 -> and if you have a comparison between some mainstream speakers would be nice. Since you do not know the martins (they are cheap, nothing special, I think the overnight sensations would be an upgrade)
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post #52 of 92 Old 06-20-2014, 07:21 AM
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Tears Don't Fall

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smittyfit View Post
wvu80 -> and if you have a comparison between some mainstream speakers would be nice. Since you do not know the martins (they are cheap, nothing special, I think the overnight sensations would be an upgrade)
I have some Bose 301 II, which are considered some of Bose's best. They use an 8" woofer and two 1" tweeters which fire in opposite directions outside the enclosure. I have played them at loud levels and they sound excellent. I'll test and compare them later.
+++

Tears Don't Fall

Listening level: About 50% from my computer, 80% from the amp, EQ flat, sub ON, with Klipsch EQ Punch. Speakers were Fusion 10 Pure. The room was small, almost near-field listening. Result: LOUD

The 20 second intro is solo guitar. Very clear, med loud, you can hear the fingers rub against the guitar string. Then at :25 in, there is a massive guitar and bass hit; it nearly ripped my ears off. I had to turn the volume down to about 1/3 on my computer, and it was still VERY loud.

The bass drum sound thumped my chest, and the snare drum was a sharp CRACK. The sound filled the small room and thumped every cavity of my body. The lead vocal consisted of screaming into the mic, so I don't know if it was in tune or not. The solo guitar parts were clear, then dynamics were very dramatic from med quiet to very loud, with the speakers being able to play still louder than I was willing to push them.

I couldn't really hear the sub, the bass came from the speakers. When I turned the sub off and had speakers only, there was a noticeable drop off in chest thump, little drop off in loudness.

Medium listening level: Very pleasant with sub engaged, very full sound, with full low end, solid mid, not much in terms of cymbal splash. That is likely due to the mixing of the source material.

Symmetry pleases the eye, but it usually offends the ears where low frequencies are concerned. -Yoda Fitzmaurice

Last edited by wvu80; 06-20-2014 at 08:48 AM.
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post #53 of 92 Old 06-20-2014, 07:38 AM
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Needles:

Listening level: About 50% from my computer, 80% from the amp, EQ flat, sub ON, with Klipsch EQ Punch. Speakers were Fusion 10 Pure. The room was small, almost near-field listening. Result: Punchy but full bass, especially bass drum, overall sound was med loud/loud.

The intro was moderately loud featuring bass drum kicks. The BD was very full, but not sharp. It sounded very accurate to me like what a bass drum should sound like, just louder (I am a drummer). The snare was very clear, you could hear the overtones and ringing where the snare is tuned moderately soft with no damping.

Thirty seconds into the song the ride cymbal is subdued with most sound coming from drums and bass guitar. The sound is VERY full, the bass is not muddy at all. The rhythm guitar sound is distorted, but from the musician, not from the speakers. The speakers actually played the distortion sound very cleanly, if that makes any sense, it did not grate on the ears.

The solo vocal voice was mixed almost into the background with instruments in the foreground, but the words were very clear, easy to hear. There is no question the drums are punchy, especially the bass drum which doubles the bass guitar line. The more loud, the more punchy, without top end compression of the sound. Turning the volume on the computer up to 3/4 the sound becomes massive, very full, rattles the chest cavity but does not hurt the ear.

Smitty: Your note to me for this song was for me to "Really focus if you feel the punch." Focusing was NOT necessary, the punch was always there, very apparent, hitting me in the middle of my chest. It was impossible to ignore.

Symmetry pleases the eye, but it usually offends the ears where low frequencies are concerned. -Yoda Fitzmaurice

Last edited by wvu80; 06-20-2014 at 07:43 AM.
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post #54 of 92 Old 06-20-2014, 07:46 AM - Thread Starter
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wvu80 -> WOW!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHA, I LOVE IT!! I have to get these... If my subwoofer is off there is 0 feel at all. With my sub crossed at 80... not much feel at all, when crossed at 120.. a bit more feel, and when crossed at 150 or 200 hz you get pretty good feel. Nothing like I think your saying though... And I hear nothing on the strings... I used to play bass and guitar and my speakers sound kind of like when I was a baby and smashed on pots and pans... The snare drum sounds like a heavy rock dropping in water... The scream sounded like Howards mother from The big bang theory lol...

There is not much fluctuation in my volume if my subwoofer is not crossed at least 150hz, I don't think my speakers can play mid range in my room.... That is also why I feel it is hard to hear what ppl say in movies.... And the SHHHH is annoying at high levels.

What is the size of your room?

Curiosity strikes, what did you think of the song? I don't think you enjoy the "screaming" hahaha

Thanks a lot! Cheers!
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post #55 of 92 Old 06-20-2014, 07:51 AM
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Monster:

Listening level: About 50% from my computer, 80% from the amp, EQ flat, sub ON, with Klipsch EQ Punch. Speakers were Fusion 10 Pure. The room was small, almost near-field listening. Result: Bass was not as pleasant, it had a lot of "one note" bass thump, especially bass drum, overall sound was loud.

I had to turn the volume down to 1/3 on the computer, it was still very loud. The sound coming from the source Youtube sounded very compressed, despite the thumping in the bass, it did not have much highs, or lows. There were no dynamics, but I think that was how the song was sung and mixed.

Symmetry pleases the eye, but it usually offends the ears where low frequencies are concerned. -Yoda Fitzmaurice
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post #56 of 92 Old 06-20-2014, 07:51 AM - Thread Starter
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wvu80 -> Thank you so much for your effort here OMG.... I would say I need to listen for these new sounds but I can't.... Hahahaha

I think I understand where this is going... I need to get the fusion10s... I think they match up for my music style to...

The punch is VERY important to me hahahaha, and I LOVE the description you are providing: "The more loud, the more punchy, without top end compression of the sound. Turning the volume on the computer up to 3/4 the sound becomes massive, very full, rattles the chest cavity but does not hurt the ear."

I think the word I'm trying to say is "compression".... Like when my speakers get turned up past 85 dB they start hurting the ears... That is compression?

Oh, I do wish to know the size of your room.

Thanks a lot man... You truly went above and beyond the standard call of duty... Really appreciate it!
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post #57 of 92 Old 06-20-2014, 07:57 AM
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The Way You move

Listening level: About 50% from my computer, 80% from the amp, EQ flat, sub ON, with Klipsch EQ Punch. Speakers were Fusion 10 Pure. The room was small, almost near-field listening. Result: Subdued bass punch, especially drum and cymbal sounds, overall sound was loud.

This recording sounded very compressed, which means even though all instruments were being played LOUD, none of them had much dynamic punch, with the sound very bland due to heavy compression in the mixing. The solo voice was very muddy and got lost in the instrumentation.

Symmetry pleases the eye, but it usually offends the ears where low frequencies are concerned. -Yoda Fitzmaurice
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post #58 of 92 Old 06-20-2014, 08:00 AM - Thread Starter
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wvu80 -> I should of found you better quality links, I actually do not use youtube for my music playback. My apologies.
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post #59 of 92 Old 06-20-2014, 08:04 AM
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300 Violin Orchestra

Listening level: About 50% from my computer, 80% from the amp, EQ flat, sub ON, with Klipsch EQ Punch. Speakers were Fusion 10 Pure. The room was small, almost near-field listening. Result: Massive deep quality synthesizer bass, the overall sound was loud but gave a much better sound when played loud.

This was played with sub, but the massive bass sound was heard directly from the 10" Eminence woofers. The sound was sustained and vibrated my computer desk and keyboard, even though the sound level was moderately loud to loud. The sound is very pleasant to listen to while being played loud.

Symmetry pleases the eye, but it usually offends the ears where low frequencies are concerned. -Yoda Fitzmaurice
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post #60 of 92 Old 06-20-2014, 08:13 AM
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Back at One

Listening level: About 50% from my computer, 80% from the amp, EQ flat, sub ON, with Klipsch EQ Punch. Speakers were Fusion 10 Pure. The room was small, almost near-field listening. Result: Overall sound was clear and articulate.

VERY clean solo vocal sound, very accurate, smooth. The piano sound was very accurate. There was excellent separation in the piano, bass guitar and drums. This was the first song where I could hear solo male voice. There was no sibilance (high pitched sssss at the beginning of a word, such as "see"). This played very cleanly both at loud listening levels and quiet levels, but had more punch at louder levels. It sounded tremendous at loud levels, as the vocal voice was clear, but drums and bass guitar were more life like.
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Symmetry pleases the eye, but it usually offends the ears where low frequencies are concerned. -Yoda Fitzmaurice
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