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post #151 of 343 Old 07-12-2014, 06:04 PM - Thread Starter
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I'll check into it, thanks!


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post #152 of 343 Old 07-13-2014, 08:50 PM - Thread Starter
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While I'll still have a couple of weeks to finalize things design-wise before I can start cutting, I did this mockup with the stone and bracing. Including the drivers and bracing the vol is 8-9 ft^3. If I dbl the walls and top (likely add another layer and router out for the depth of the stone which is just over 1") it comes to exactly 8ft^3 But that's assuming I can make all those cutouts in the bracing exact, which ain't gonna happen

Here's some pics, would appreciate any feedback or suggestions.






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post #153 of 343 Old 07-13-2014, 08:58 PM
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Looks good. Easier to see sketchup if you do a screen capture like this with no shadows
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post #154 of 343 Old 07-13-2014, 09:01 PM
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You should make the bracing a little more complicated :P
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post #155 of 343 Old 07-13-2014, 10:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Help with first DIY: DO SI 18

Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post
Looks good. Easier to see sketchup if you do a screen capture like this with no shadows

Thanks! How do I do a screen capture with on PC?

Is the bracing excessive? Is there an easier way that'll use less material? Just assuming I need more than what's in your box since I'm running DO?

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Originally Posted by niktak11 View Post
You should make the bracing a little more complicated :P

I'll see what I can do


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post #156 of 343 Old 07-13-2014, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ambesolman View Post
Thanks! How do I do a screen capture with on PC?

Is the bracing excessive? Is there an easier way that'll use less material? Just assuming I need more than what's in your box since I'm running DO?




I'll see what I can do


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screen capture is alt and print screen button. then I paste it into Microsoft paint and save as a PNG file.

your bracing uses more wood then necessary. one to two inch strips will work. do whatever is easiest for you. remember on this thread the word excessive doesn't exist
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post #157 of 343 Old 07-14-2014, 09:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Help with first DIY: DO SI 18

So since I'm planning on doing a 1/2" round over on the edges, I went back by the granite place and had them not radius the corners but add the same round over to the shorter sides. Think they call it a "bullnose". They'll be on the front and back and exposed so it'll look more uniform with the edge of the box and be polished. Should look nicer from the front.


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post #158 of 343 Old 07-15-2014, 04:22 PM
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Pics!

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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post #159 of 343 Old 07-15-2014, 07:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
Pics!

Of what?

Wish I had some progress to show. I'll be outta town the next couple of weeks then I can get crankin.

What do you use to trigger on your pro amps?


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post #160 of 343 Old 07-16-2014, 05:49 AM
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I use my finger, sometime my thumb...

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post #161 of 343 Old 07-16-2014, 07:49 AM - Thread Starter
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I use my finger, sometime my thumb...

I'm giving you a finger now...

I'm still reading a thread where folks are trying to build a 12v trigger outlet with varying degrees of success. I'd happily buy one from one of these electrical wizards.


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post #162 of 343 Old 07-17-2014, 08:59 AM
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Looking good Ambesolman.

One thing that I did when building Coach's box recently is build in overlaps and then flush trim with a router. Besides cutting the exterior pieces oversize, I also set the order of assembly to make it so I would have an edge to flush against. An example was the sides, I inset them and then the front, back, top, and bottom edges overlapped so I flushed each of those edges at the same time with the router bit bearing riding against the side of the box. I also put the top on so it overlapped front (inner) and back, etc. Resulted in a box that almost looked perfect without having to worry about cutting perfect pieces, which even with my copious amounts of woodworking tools doesn't always happen (OK, rarely).

By the way, I know you have mentioned using some other wood outside, make sure you stick with plywood. If you were to use real wood, it is a living thing with cells that will take in and let go of moisture based on humidity. If you build it on a box without taking into account that real wood moves, you'll have cracks or other issues. You could put in wood strips on the edge if you wanted to round over wood and then put on veneer, but don't put a layer of real wood on a side without taking into account wood movement...or making sure it is very thin, like 1/8" or so.

One other option for the top that is fairly inexpensive and could be customized to fit is concrete countertops. I remodeled my kitchen and have a large L shaped island and didn't want a seam. So I did an in-place pour of concrete and it looks phenomenal. It doesn't look like concrete, more like granite as I used some stones, colored glass, and even some glow stones. I could walk you through it if you were interested in giving it a shot.




I'm really looking forward to your build and excited you are finally moving forward with this project. Now hurry up already!

David
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post #163 of 343 Old 07-17-2014, 11:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post
Looking good Ambesolman.

One thing that I did when building Coach's box recently is build in overlaps and then flush trim with a router. Besides cutting the exterior pieces oversize, I also set the order of assembly to make it so I would have an edge to flush against. An example was the sides, I inset them and then the front, back, top, and bottom edges overlapped so I flushed each of those edges at the same time with the router bit bearing riding against the side of the box. I also put the top on so it overlapped front (inner) and back, etc. Resulted in a box that almost looked perfect without having to worry about cutting perfect pieces, which even with my copious amounts of woodworking tools doesn't always happen (OK, rarely).

By the way, I know you have mentioned using some other wood outside, make sure you stick with plywood. If you were to use real wood, it is a living thing with cells that will take in and let go of moisture based on humidity. If you build it on a box without taking into account that real wood moves, you'll have cracks or other issues. You could put in wood strips on the edge if you wanted to round over wood and then put on veneer, but don't put a layer of real wood on a side without taking into account wood movement...or making sure it is very thin, like 1/8" or so.

One other option for the top that is fairly inexpensive and could be customized to fit is concrete countertops. I remodeled my kitchen and have a large L shaped island and didn't want a seam. So I did an in-place pour of concrete and it looks phenomenal. It doesn't look like concrete, more like granite as I used some stones, colored glass, and even some glow stones. I could walk you through it if you were interested in giving it a shot.




I'm really looking forward to your build and excited you are finally moving forward with this project. Now hurry up already!

David

Welcome to the party David, appreciate the input as well!

So I'm planning on basically having everything else sandwiched btw the outer baffles. However, since those walls will be firing into the couch and chair, maybe I should dbl the side walls and have everything sandwiched btw them so it'd look better when being looked at head on (looking at the short end of the granite)?

I probably wasn't clear about using another wood on the outside...I'd be using plywood outside + mdf inside OR just plywood (Baltic birtch, etc) for the whole thing. I still have to play with the cutsheet program. I think there's even a 4x10' option for BB and even a veneered mdf.

I feel like as long as I take my time, taking multiple measurements before cutting, it may be easier for me and my limited experience to cut them right the first time. Otherwise I'd have to have a fixed amount of extra to try and remember to add in, then build off of, then cut off. I'm more likely to mess up with more variables/more to do. I may do this with just the outer pieces, but maybe that's what you're saying?

Your countertops came out great! If I hadn't gotten a free slab of granite and already gotten it cut, I'd definitely consider going the concrete route. You can make it look however you want it to which is awesome. As it is now, I'll have a matching piece of granite if/when I build a second box. So they should look identical, at least in theory


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post #164 of 343 Old 07-17-2014, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ambesolman View Post
I feel like as long as I take my time, taking multiple measurements before cutting, it may be easier for me and my limited experience to cut them right the first time. Otherwise I'd have to have a fixed amount of extra to try and remember to add in, then build off of, then cut off. I'm more likely to mess up with more variables/more to do. I may do this with just the outer pieces, but maybe that's what you're saying?
I have some pretty high end woodworking equipment and it isn't always easy to get perfectly square pieces of wood, especially when getting to the larger pieces. Is it possible, absolutely, but I've tried to cut and assemble perfectly (I use mm scale) before and Coach's box was the first one that I decided to do rough measurements and then rout flush. Guess what, it was the first box that came out about perfect...or close enough and there was a lot less stress and time consumed trying to make sure everything came together just right. Obviously the way I'm suggesting isn't the only way and I'm sure you can get great results taking your time too. I will also say that even with great tools, sometimes cutting a straight line in the correct location doesn't always happen. But I'm not trying to scare you, I'm sure you'll do a great job. And better woodworkers don't necessarily NOT make mistakes, they've just learned more ways to fix and hide the mistakes.

Final bit of advice: too often people procrastinate because they are intimidated by something and then after they do it they wonder why they waited so long. So don't let any apprehension come into play, just do it! Your box doesn't have to be perfect to look great and sound outstanding.
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post #165 of 343 Old 07-17-2014, 04:53 PM - Thread Starter
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That's all very good advice! I guess what I'm trying to figure out is, don't you need at least one piece (maybe the bottom?) that's cut just right to start building from?

You're right about being somewhat apprehensive. One wrong cut and I've
pi$$ed away $50 on a sheet of wood I can now only use for scrap. This is one reason I'm thinking of building the inside first out of mdf. It'll get my feet wet for working on the outer (and visible) shell.


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post #166 of 343 Old 07-17-2014, 10:45 PM
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OK. I did some thinking on this and I think I have a build plan for you...now let's see how well I can communicate what I'm seeing in my mind so that you can actually comprehend it. Really, whatever I write here will make absolute perfect sense...to me.

First, you will need to order or buy locally from a woodworking supply store some double sided tape such as this (http://www.amazon.com/Peachtree-Wood.../dp/B0049RAEA6). You might also want to pick up some grippy drawer/shelf liner as mentioned in step 5.

Second, to come up with measurement, we need to discuss which pieces fit where.

  1. Your sides will fit inside of your top/bottom and front/back. When I say front, I mean the inner front. The outer fronts will be easy as they just go over the front and get routed flush around the edges.
  2. The front/back will be next and will extend over the sides and then be routed flush.
  3. The top and bottom will extend over the front/back as well as the sides and then be routed flush.
  4. At this point you have a box and you should be able to draw this up in Sketchup and size it appropriately.
  5. The outer front will just be cut oversized and be glued to the front of your box and then flushed around the edges.

Now here is the perfect cut/assembly plan. It's at least perfect in my mind...it might be less than perfect once I try communicating my vision.


  1. You will need to cut a back and a side to the correct ("perfect") size. I recommend you cut them together long ways using the height of the back and side (1 piece) as the dimension for the cut.
  2. After you cut the back and the side to the appropriate height, preferably parallel, which means they are the same height measurement on both ends of the wood. Then you will cut the side away from the back so you now have two pieces (a back and a side) at your final measurements, hopefully perfectly square but even if it isn't perfect I think you'll be ok as long as they are close.
  3. Now cut another side and back the same way but to slightly oversize measurements. You will use the initial pieces you cut to size the second set perfectly the same as the first.
  4. Now take your first back with the final measurements and place it on your workbench and put four pieces of double-sided tape on each corner of the face. Then put the oversized back on top of your first back so that it overhangs each edge (top, bottom, and sides) and is held firmly with the double-sided tape.
  5. You might want to get some grip shelf/drawer liner to put under the pieces so they don't move on you (http://www.amazon.com/Duck-1100731-N.../dp/B002AS9NAI). You can get that from HD or Lowes. Now user your router with a flush trim bit to make the oversized back the same exact size as your primary/first back.
  6. Repeat steps 4 and 5 for your side pieces.
  7. At this point you have a front (inner)/back that are the same size as well as sides that are the same size.
  8. Now cut the top/bottom to slightly oversize measurements with the depth (front to back measurement) being a little more than the depth/width of your side pieces. The width (side to side) measurement will be a little more than the width of your front/back pieces. Cut them about 1/4" greater as they will be flush trimmed to the front/back & sides after the cabinet is assembled.
  9. Now you can focus on your inner support pieces.
  10. Since your sides and front/back are the same height, you can use one of those pieces to ensure your inner braces are the correct height using the same tape and route process.
  11. For any braces that go front to back, you would use the side width to route to the same dimension.
  12. I'm assuming you don't have any braces that go the entire width of the cabinet but if you do, you'll need to cut them a little shorter than the width of your front/back. Specifically, you'll want the long braces to be shorter than the length of your front/back by 2 x plywood-thickness + a little more so that the front/back extend past the sides just a bit. So assuming you are using 3/4" plywood, you might want to cut the long inner brace pieces to 1.75" shorter than the long dimension of your front/back.
  13. At this point you have all of your inner braces cut to the same height as your front/back & sides. The inner braces going front to back are cut to the same width as your side pieces. The long braces extending the width of your enclosure would be cut to ~1.75" less than the width of your front back. You are now ready to start assembling.
  14. I'd recommend you start putting the inner braces together so that you have an inner structure to build around. Once you have some structure, center it front to back and side to side and attach to the oversized bottom.
  15. Then put the back on, which when attached to the braces, should still have some of the bottom extending beyond the back.
  16. Now put the sides on. Again the bottom should extend past the sides and the back should also extend slightly from the sides.
  17. Now put the front on. The bottom should extend past the front and the front should extend past the sides.
  18. At any point, such as this one, if the inner braces and sides or front/back don't line up perfectly, don't worry about it, just sand them level so there won't be a gap when you put the top on.
  19. Now put the top on, which should have a small lip extending past the front, back, and sides.
  20. Now use the flush trim bit to flush the top/bottom to the front/back and sides. You might want to use a support bridge by taking a couple of pieces of wood to act as spacers and then clamp a straight piece of wood to support the other side of the router (like this picture - http://woodworkerszone.com/wikigalle...Credenza10.jpg). Just make sure the clamps are out of the way of the router and bit.
  21. Then use the flush trim bit to flush the front/back to the sides.
  22. At this point you have a completed box with perfectly routed edges. Now you can rout the hole in the center for the sub...I think you said 16.7" or so. Don't forget that you are cutting the radius with the router, not the diameter so you set the width on your circle cutting jig to HALF of 16.7".
  23. Now I'm not sure if you're going to put a double baffle with a double thick 16.7" hole or if the second sheet will have a slightly larger hole. For this operation, I'll assume you're going to have a double thick front with a 16.7" mounting hole. Before you attach an oversize front, rout a smaller hole, maybe 15" across so that you can flush rout to the first hole you cut but you'll still have plenty of room to get clamps into place. Now glue and clamp the oversize front into place. It should overlap all around the outside of the box and the hole should be smaller all around than the 16.7" or so hole you cut on the inner front piece. After the glue dries, rout the edges flush and then the inner hole.
  24. These instructions are for the front with the oversized hole to fit around the subwoofer as well the rubber gasket. Take a slightly more oversized front and don't attach yet, go ahead and route the oversize hole (18.5"?) in the very center of the board (assumes your inner subwoofer holes are centered). Now center the 18.5 hole over the 16.7" hole and glue and clamp. Then flush the edges of the front to the box. By the way, not that I ever had a problem with this when fighting with a 90lb LMS-5400 but make sure you don't cut the larger outer hole to close to the size of the sub with the rubber gasket. Let's just say that I measured tight with my LMS-5400 and had to rerout the hole a little bit more...after fighting with the gasket on a 90 lb sub. Oops...I mean that didn't happen.
  25. At this point the box is completely assembled and you are ready to finish/paint the sub. I'd recommend finishing/painting the sub before you cut a hole in the back for the speaker wire terminal cup or Speakon connection. I like Speakons but they stick out about 2-3" when plugged in.
  26. Then wire up the speaker wire terminal cup with 12 gauge wire leaving plenty to reach outside the box.
  27. Before you put the subwoofer in place, don't forget some pillows (Walmart specials). Not that I've forgotten before...repeatedly.

Well. That was a long post and every step was perfect in my mind's eye. Hopefully you can decipher it well enough although you might have to read it a few times or ask me to decipher in follow-up posts. Hope this helped.


David
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post #167 of 343 Old 07-18-2014, 07:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks! I think I'm following. I'll have to reread it a few times once I start cutting.

So are you using the tape instead of glue or is the tape just to help dry fit?


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post #168 of 343 Old 07-18-2014, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ambesolman View Post
So are you using the tape instead of glue or is the tape just to help dry fit?
I predominantly use Titebond 3 for wood glue. The tape is used to hold the two pieces of wood together temporarily so you can rout them to the same size. You could screw them together but I don't want holes in my wood and I doubt you do either.

By the way, I think you mentioned you had a table saw, which works well to rip a long piece of wood to the same width. For long plywood, I often cut just oversize from the bigger, harder to manipulate sheet of plywood. Then I come back a second time to cut the slightly oversized piece down to exact width on the table saw. If you can do this accurately, you could just forgo routing the individual pieces and just run two pieces through the table saw since you have consistent repeatability.

Do you have a good miter gauge for your table saw that is able to be accurately set at 90 degrees? If you do then you can use your table saw to crosscut. I have a sliding Jessem Mast-R-Slide sliding table so I can crosscut reliably. If you don't, you could build a crosscut sled (http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/...-crosscut-sled).

But you said you didn't want to build your own jigs so that is why I tried to reduce the complexity by saying to cut a single back and a single side to the correct size and perfectly square. Then you can use the double sided tape to take an oversized back and rout it flush to the first back to make sure they are exactly the same. Then rout the oversized side to the "perfect" side. Again, this is a shortcut to get a set of parts to the exact same size even if your tools don't necessarily support perfect repeatability.
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post #169 of 343 Old 07-18-2014, 09:26 AM - Thread Starter
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So I'm guessing the crosscut is to make the long ripped cuts into smaller pieces? I'll have to look at it when I get back to town. The saw (and a lot of the other tools) was given to me. They'd belonged to my ex-brother in law and I think I ended up with them out of spite. Either way I got free tools It's some brand I've never heard of and a little cheap feeling but it cranked right up after years of being unused.

The jig instructions Chalugadp gave me seem pretty simple and I'll try that before spending another $50 on a jig.


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post #170 of 343 Old 07-18-2014, 09:39 AM
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I bought a cheap Craftsman table saw when I was in college and that was the stupidest thing I've ever purchased. I couldn't get a straightedge straight with it. Then tried a circular saw against a straight edge and couldn't keep it completely straight on a long cut. Ended up buying a Festool Track Saw and that was one of the best purchases I've ever made...expensive but if all my tools were stolen, that would be the first one I'd get in replacement.
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post #171 of 343 Old 07-18-2014, 01:41 PM
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Feel the same way about the eurekazone track system. I don't know how I ever built without it.

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post #172 of 343 Old 07-18-2014, 03:09 PM - Thread Starter
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If I start doing more of this DIY stuff, it sounds like I might have to look into a track saw huh?


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post #173 of 343 Old 07-18-2014, 07:38 PM - Thread Starter
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I've read that it's best to have something other than mdf for the screws to bite into. What are y'all using behind that inner baffle? Another wooden baffle or ring or just wood pieces?


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post #174 of 343 Old 07-18-2014, 08:12 PM
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Definitely want plywood. With my big monsters, the LMS-5400s, especially with one of them down-firing, I used 1/2" steel, which was about 1" overkill. So you could use a nice plywood ring but using some scrap pieces would work just as well

And yes, if I had to choose between a mediocre table saw and a track saw, I'd choose my Festool track saw every time. It isn't perfect by any means but I could go onsite and create high-quality furniture with it.
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post #175 of 343 Old 07-18-2014, 10:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Help with first DIY: DO SI 18

Thanks David, that's kinda what I figured. Will just use part of the larger hole I have to cut out for the ring.

So as of now, this is the finished product. I may design a second box to see if I can get it all on fewer sheets of plywood, but I don't think I can design one using the granite like I have it now. All the other ways I can think of would make the stone a total inlay surrounded on all sides by wood instead of just two sides. Doesn't really matter anyway since they've already added the 1/2" round over to the short sides and wouldn't work right for that now.

The top is two pieces. The first one seals the box and will have roughly 1/4" deep space routered out for the stone to sit on. The outer top pice is purely decorative. It consists of the stone and then the two pieces on either side.

The lighter pieces are mdf, the others are wood. The lumber joint I'm buying from has a BB option in 3/4 x 4'x10'. This will fit everything on two sheets leaving plenty of room for error. 4x8' sheets required 3. Will have to check but I'm assuming 2 will still be cheaper. All the mdf fits on one sheet.

I tried taking a screenshot, but couldn't find it on the computer so just took another iPhone pic. Whatever, you get the idea




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Last edited by ambesolman; 07-18-2014 at 10:51 PM.
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post #176 of 343 Old 07-18-2014, 10:53 PM
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that looks pretty cool.


one thing that I've seen with end tables is drop the stone into the center of the top and have a 3-4" border running around edge.


something like this. view of top looking down at it. just figured I'd kick it out there for you to consider...


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post #177 of 343 Old 07-18-2014, 10:58 PM
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thought that might have possibilities, so took a little more time on it.


might stoke the creative juices for the next guy in any case...


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post #178 of 343 Old 07-18-2014, 11:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Help with first DIY: DO SI 18

Thanks LTD!

I thing I was editing my post while you were respnding. It does look really good that way, but 1) I already had them round over the short sides and 2) thought I'd try going a less traditional route. Plus, this way I can see the ends polished up nice as well sine they'll be facing into the room and the drivers firing into the sofa.


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post #179 of 343 Old 07-18-2014, 11:28 PM
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ah! well then what you have is the way to go!

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post #180 of 343 Old 08-01-2014, 01:05 PM
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Alright Ambesolman, give us an update. You should have a pair built by now right?
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