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post #1 of 343 Old 06-22-2014, 10:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Help with first DIY: DO SI 18

Reading about different builds and attending Beast's gtg have gotten me excited and thinking I can build my own sub. I may be wrong, but have to find out. I want it to go as loud and low as possible.

Drivers:
SI 18, but don't know which ones to order. D2 or D4?

Box:
I'd like to try a DO 18 to use as an end table. I want to use wood I can finish to look really nice since it'll be in my living room. Ideally I'm thinking it'd be best if one sub fired into the couch to add a more tactile sensation? So maybe the drivers would be mounted in the long wall of the box? This would keep the other driver from firing at my pine paneled wall. Think I read somewhere it was suggested 6.xx cuft box for DO 18s? Other say 8-10, but I know you can add poly fill to increase that.

I'm pretty short on tools and woodworking experience. Got a table saw, sawsall, skill saw, drill, but seems like I'd really need a jigsaw to cut the holes for the driver, router/router table to do the dado cuts and round edges and corners off to look nice. My buddy has these and I can borrow them if I can't get him to help me. Haven't used one since wood shop in high school. The flat packs seem really nice and easy to assemble but they are mdf so I couldn't stain them. Chalugadp made veneering look easy in his video build (man that turned out nice) but seems like there's little room for error so might as well just use wood. Wish there was a birch or rosenut or something flat pack, that'd be ideal.

I'm going to download winISD and try to learn it as well as playing with sub calculators to get ideal dimensions. Just need to know the best vol to shoot for.

Amp:
I basically don't know sh!t about electronics, ie series, parallel, volts, ohms, etc.. I'd just need a wiring diagram to show me how to hook everything up. Ideally I'd like to get an amp that I could run both subs off one channel in case I decide to build a second DO down the road. Not sure if this is possible without spending a bunch of dough. I'm trying to keep this project as cheap as possible due to limited funds.
Beast suggested I run at least 1000w into each driver. Dsp seems like a really nice feature to have on whatever amp I get.

I've read a lot of people like the inuke 3000/6000dsp. I went to check one out a week ago, but the guy said he doesn't carry them anymore. He went into a long story about how they hadn't been very reliable and getting them repaired had been a PITA due to the company saying they needed to be taken back to where it was purchased. Obviously not all venders repair stuff and this kind of made me leery about getting one. Are my concerns unfounded?

Can you recommend anything? What do you use, how many do you run off one channel/amp?

Have I forgotten anything?

Sorry for all the questions, but I guess this is how it's goes when testing the DIY waters. Thanks in advance for answering all this stuff!


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post #2 of 343 Old 06-22-2014, 10:10 PM
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The veneer is not that hard. No hidden cameras, just take your time. You could practice on some scrap MDF. Just make a six inch corner. The only tricky part is the seam. Have to router flush and then lightly sand clean. Could always do it on your next build.

If your using two si18 you want d4 with inuke3000dsp. Perfect combo.
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post #3 of 343 Old 06-22-2014, 10:14 PM
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sounds like a good plan.


d4 drivers are a good choice. they can be wired for 2 ohms per driver.


each driver hooked to 1 channel of an inuke 3000dsp. (well, there are lots of ways to hook it all up that can be figured out later)


about 1000 watts per driver that way.


cab of about 7-8 cubic feet internal volume. driver runs up to about about xmax with that power in that size cab, which is kind of a safe way to protect the drivers from over excursion.


if you like the whole thing, then just double it up again, same drivers, same amp, same box, etc.
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post #4 of 343 Old 06-22-2014, 10:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the shopping list gentlemen, exactly what I needed! If I'm given too many choices I'll be pulling my hair out analyzing it do death
If this thing turns out nice and makes me want to build a second, any reason not to just get the 6000dsp instead of two 3000s? Would it be better to have one dsp for both subs or two dsps, one for each box?

Chalugadp - I have some mdf laying around so may grab some veneer from HD for giggles and see what happens.

LTD02 - when going sealed, what is the general rule for extension and output? Is bigger better for both or just one or the other?




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post #5 of 343 Old 06-22-2014, 11:12 PM
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You want DSP for each box. I have two inuke3000dsp and they only cost me a little more. Its up to you and your woofer needs. Make sure you get paperbacked veneer.
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post #6 of 343 Old 06-23-2014, 12:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post
You want DSP for each box. I have two inuke3000dsp and they only cost me a little more. Its up to you and your woofer needs. Make sure you get paperbacked veneer.
I'll do an inuke 3000dsp per box then. It'll save me money in case I don't build another and since I'm trying to keep this a cheap as possible.

Being my first build, what would "woofer needs" entail?

Paperbacked, gotcha.
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post #7 of 343 Old 06-23-2014, 12:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ambesolman View Post
I'll do an inuke 3000dsp per box then. It'll save me money in case I don't build another and since I'm trying to keep this a cheap as possible.

Being my first build, what would "woofer needs" entail?

Paperbacked, gotcha.
How much bass you need to be happy. I had one 10" puny sub 18 months ago and now I am putting four 15 inch sub's in my living room. Probably good to start with one box. It may be all you need.
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post #8 of 343 Old 06-23-2014, 12:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post
How much bass you need to be happy. I had one 10" puny sub 18 months ago and now I am putting four 15 inch sub's in my living room. Probably good to start with one box. It may be all you need.
ooohhh ok. Yeah, this will be added to complement my hsu vtf 3 mk3. It's awesome, but I need MORE!
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post #9 of 343 Old 06-23-2014, 12:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ambesolman View Post
any reason not to just get the 6000dsp instead of two 3000s



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the Inuke 6000dsp isn't rated to handle 2 2ohm loads, and with 2 drivers, the 3000 dsp would be fine, and you can eq each channel separately. If you really wanted to (knew you were going to) upgrade to 4 drivers, the 6000dsp would be fine, for 2 DO subs, one per channel, as long as you wire them correctly to show a 4 ohm load... sorry if too 'technical'... basically,

each driver, in a dual voice coil set-up, has to be connected, so if each coil is 4 ohms, they can be connected together to present either a 2 ohm load or an 8 ohm load. ( hint: here 2 is better). With a dual 2 ohm load, one driver will basically be either a 1 ohm load (not ideal), or a 4 ohm load. From here it gets trickier... because you want 2 drivers in one box...

So, with 2 d4... dual 4 ohm drivers... each one has to be wired (both coils together) as a 2 or an 8 omn load, and then, depending on how you wired each driver, each PAIR of drivers will have to be wired together, which could be a 1, 4, or 16 ohm load. That is the signal the amp would see...the 4 looks the most useful here.

With 2 d2, each wired as 1, or 4 ohms, then with 2 in one box... you could do .5 (not gonna happen), 2, or 8 ohms. here is where the 2 shines.... basically because the .5,1,8 and 16 don't work well... you can present each amplification channel with either a 2 ohm load or a 4 ohm load.

Already more technical than I wanted... but here is where you have to decide how many channels you want, running how many watts each... Are you really going to be happy with just one sub? (purely rhetoric... we know the answer, but you have to get there yourself).

BTW, you're not going to fit 8 cu ft in an endtable design, without it being one honking huge endtable. IMO, and YMMV, of course.

Joseph

What a long, strange trip its been....
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post #10 of 343 Old 06-23-2014, 06:03 AM
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You see these on the cheap?

FS: 8 X 18" Dayton RSSHO 18" Subwoofers

$140 for each driver is not a bad deal at all!
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post #11 of 343 Old 06-23-2014, 07:44 AM
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"LTD02 - when going sealed, what is the general rule for extension and output? Is bigger better for both or just one or the other?"


the larger the enclosure, the less power is required to push the driver (against the air spring created by the air in the box) to its excursion maximum.


if you go large, very little power is required.


if you go very small, you may run out of power before being able to take full advantage of the excursion of the driver.


3.5 cubic feet or so per driver is a good middle ground. could always do down firing (single driver per cab) end tables as another option to keep size down.

Listen.ย It'sย All Good.
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post #12 of 343 Old 06-23-2014, 09:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Help with first DIY: DO SI 18

Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post
You see these on the cheap?

FS: 8 X 18" Dayton RSSHO 18" Subwoofers

$140 for each driver is not a bad deal at all!

I actually reached out to pick his brain a couple weeks ago and he mentioned he was selling them. Like the ad said, he preferred to sell locally since the shipping would probably kill it for me. No biggie, think I ended up paying about the same for the pair if D4s I ordered last night.

Besides, if he's switching to SIs, there's gotta be a good reason right๐Ÿ˜‰

How your upgrades going? You find a place to squeeze in double the drivers? I never heard specifics...


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Last edited by ambesolman; 06-23-2014 at 09:13 AM. Reason: ๐Ÿ˜ณ
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post #13 of 343 Old 06-23-2014, 09:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
"LTD02 - when going sealed, what is the general rule for extension and output? Is bigger better for both or just one or the other?"


the larger the enclosure, the less power is required to push the driver (against the air spring created by the air in the box) to its excursion maximum.


if you go large, very little power is required.


if you go very small, you may run out of power before being able to take full advantage of the excursion of the driver.


3.5 cubic feet or so per driver is a good middle ground. could always do down firing (single driver per cab) end tables as another option to keep size down.

So it doesn't really affect anything except the power required to hit xmax?

I did think about doing separate cabs, but due to the layout I don't really have room along the front wall cuz of the entertainment center, mains, wides and the French doors. The hsu will move to the other side of the couch. Once complete I'll likely remove the real end tables from the room completely.

Here's an old crappy drawing of the room. Only thing missing is the mains flanking the tv...




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post #14 of 343 Old 06-23-2014, 09:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Been playing with sketchup and came up with this. 34x24x26 with 1.5" thickness on driver walls. How does the bracing look? Should I just dbl baffle all four walls? Would this eliminate the need for other bracing?




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post #15 of 343 Old 06-23-2014, 10:06 PM
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I like to have bracing above and below the center of the driver.
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post #16 of 343 Old 06-23-2014, 10:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post
I like to have bracing above and below the center of the driver.

Like this?




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post #17 of 343 Old 06-23-2014, 10:56 PM
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Yes,
Lots of force on the baffle even though its double, it can always use some help.
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post #18 of 343 Old 06-23-2014, 11:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks! Anything else I should add?

Do I need to dbl up any of the walls besides the baffles?

How much room should I be leaving between the braces and the cutouts?


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post #19 of 343 Old 06-23-2014, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ambesolman View Post
Thanks! Anything else I should add?

Do I need to dbl up any of the walls besides the baffles?

How much room should I be leaving between the braces and the cutouts?


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No need for doubling up. Room between braces ? If u mean how close to circle cutout, I go about 3/8" to 1/2" away.
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post #20 of 343 Old 06-23-2014, 11:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Sounds good to me.

How do I go about making a cut sheet for all the pieces?


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post #21 of 343 Old 06-24-2014, 02:15 AM
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You planning on ever building grills for your box? If so, keep in mind that you will need another 3/4" of recess due to the tall surround of the SI's.

I personally would not over think the bracing situation since you are going DO. Especially when you are already planning double (possibly tripple) layer baffles.
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post #22 of 343 Old 06-24-2014, 02:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ambesolman View Post
I actually reached out to pick his brain a couple weeks ago and he mentioned he was selling them. Like the ad said, he preferred to sell locally since the shipping would probably kill it for me. No biggie, think I ended up paying about the same for the pair if D4s I ordered last night.

Besides, if he's switching to SIs, there's gotta be a good reason right๐Ÿ˜‰

How your upgrades going? You find a place to squeeze in double the drivers? I never heard specifics...


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Glitch. Thought the SI were still on back order for a while longer. Haven't checked in a few months though.

No update on my end. Moving soon, so everything will be going in storage for the time being.
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post #23 of 343 Old 06-24-2014, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by popalock View Post
You planning on ever building grills for your box? If so, keep in mind that you will need another 3/4" of recess due to the tall surround of the SI's.



I personally would not over think the bracing situation since you are going DO. Especially when you are already planning double (possibly tripple) layer baffles.


Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post
Glitch. Thought the SI were still on back order for a while longer. Haven't checked in a few months though.



No update on my end. Moving soon, so everything will be going in storage for the time being.

I hadn't even thought about grills, but doesn't sound like a bad idea. If I did them I'd prefer magnetic but no idea how that'd work. Let alone how to build them. I guess at that point it'd HAVE to be a triple baffle if the driver had to be recessed another 3/4"?

So since I was going to recess the driver anyway, I just do two layers with a bigger hole than the innermost hole if I do grills right? Got any instructions on how to build grills?

Heard about your move. Really appreciate y'all's service popa. While you're over there, go ahead and take care of the dudes we just let go


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post #24 of 343 Old 06-24-2014, 10:38 AM
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Sooooo

D4's and an inuke6000.

Why aren't you done already?


This is awesome. Can't wait to see how you like em.


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post #25 of 343 Old 06-24-2014, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ambesolman View Post
I hadn't even thought about grills, but doesn't sound like a bad idea. If I did them I'd prefer magnetic but no idea how that'd work. Let alone how to build them. I guess at that point it'd HAVE to be a triple baffle if the driver had to be recessed another 3/4"?

So since I was going to recess the driver anyway, I just do two layers with a bigger hole than the innermost hole if I do grills right? Got any instructions on how to build grills?
Booooommmmm!!!!

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Heard about your move. Really appreciate y'all's service popa. While you're over there, go ahead and take care of the dudes we just let go

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Yeah man, I'll keep my eye out for them. Keep you guys updated for sure.

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post #26 of 343 Old 06-24-2014, 12:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Help with first DIY: DO SI 18

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
Sooooo

D4's and an inuke6000.

Why aren't you done already?


This is awesome. Can't wait to see how you like em.

Just finished

6000? Above they recommended the 3000dsp, not enough?

Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post
I think the poor AVS transition busted your link

Quote:
Yeah man, I'll keep my eye out for them. Keep you guys updated for sure.




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Last edited by ambesolman; 06-24-2014 at 12:53 PM. Reason: h
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post #27 of 343 Old 06-24-2014, 01:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Should be getting a few tools from my buddy tomorrow, router/router table, jigsaw, power sander, etc.. Just have to settle on final dimensions so I can figure out how many sheets of wood to get.

Anyone know a program that'll help me develop a cut sheet?


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post #28 of 343 Old 06-24-2014, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ambesolman View Post
Just finished

6000? Above they recommended the 3000dsp, not enough?


Oh right. Good question.

You are building one subwoofer ...... now.

That 6000 will do nicely when you are building your second sub with two of the same drivers.
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post #29 of 343 Old 06-24-2014, 01:36 PM
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Anyone know a program that'll help me develop a cut sheet?
Yes,
http://delphiforfun.org/programs/cutlist.htm
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post #30 of 343 Old 06-24-2014, 02:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks!


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