Design Challenge - Ceiling speakers for Dolby Atmos - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 225 Old 06-23-2014, 06:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Design Challenge - Ceiling speakers for Dolby Atmos

Ceiling mounted surround speakers are coming, (I think). So what is the collective wisdom of this group on the lowest possible profile DIY speaker we can hang up there and get the benefit of the Atmos system? Not someting we can recess but something we can hang from our double 5/8 drywall ceilings without cutting holes to leak the sound.
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post #2 of 225 Old 06-23-2014, 07:21 AM
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is this what you are shooting for?


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post #3 of 225 Old 06-23-2014, 07:26 AM
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So it's on it's way to HT Big? Glad to hear this as I've been saying for over a year that this needed to make its way to our homes. Large rooms will benefit greatly I assume. This will be so close to 4D!

Ready for a follow Big installing Atmos thread then I guess?
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post #4 of 225 Old 06-23-2014, 07:54 AM - Thread Starter
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I am receptive to being convinced at CEDIA, It could be a winter project too early to tell.
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post #5 of 225 Old 06-23-2014, 08:06 AM
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I am guessing that for home use, it will require two ceiling mounted speakers. I have a pair of JBL Pro 8340's sitting, waiting for this or use them as front height speakers. I am hoping that I can do Atmos with a standard 9.1 system, plus two ceiling mounted speakers.

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post #6 of 225 Old 06-23-2014, 08:19 AM
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I don't understand the Atmos or ceiling speakers purpose enough to even understand if a directional speaker like a waveguide with a focused dispersion pattern would work better or worse than something like a coaxial.

I'd guess a coaxial with a MDF backer box might fit the bill, but I think you are looking for a more advanced answer. I'm "in" for answer too.

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post #7 of 225 Old 06-23-2014, 08:45 AM
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ATMOS is coming

When Sdurani and fookoo2010 stopped to listen to "SUBMAXIMUS" last thrusday, one part of the discussion turned to exactly that topic and the ensuing wetdream for me was to add 2 mid- sides and 4 on the ceiling. its only 8 feet so a low profile/wide dispersion only makes sense.
Discuss!
there is a great 7 minute video on the DOLBY site you will want to watch
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post #8 of 225 Old 06-23-2014, 08:52 AM
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Linked to video ? Or embed it?

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post #9 of 225 Old 06-23-2014, 09:44 AM
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In this interview with Willfried Van Baelen (Auro 3D inventor), he says that for a home theater the overhead channels aren't necessary (starting at 14:02).

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post #10 of 225 Old 06-23-2014, 09:45 AM
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Well certainly a tall ceiling would help in this situation I believe. 9ft or 10ft. 8ft ceilings put the listers to close, causing uneven coverage unless this is a small HT with only a few seats. But I know you do a lot of big theatres with multiple rows. My mind immediately races to coaxials, for the same reason it often does for surrounds. But perhaps in the 8" rather than 10 or 12" sizes. I also immediately think of a heavy duty dome tweeter that can cross over to a 5" Peerless woofer at 1500hz if smoother response is desired. Something good in a 15L sealed box. And the box, that's the key to this whole thing I think. The box shape would be very shallow. And would have a baffle not much larger than the driver. Then it would have sloping sides at maybe 20 degrees that extend down (up) to the ceiling. This would allow the response to be quite free of diffraction, and also lack any baffle step issues (half space). The final dimensions would line up with joist spacing if fortunate enough. Difficult to construct certainly. The SPL goals are 6db lower than most are used to, so this is nice. And with the lack of baffle step losses and short listening distance, SPL certainly wouldn't be the focus. The focus is uniform and wide coverage.

Think desktop speaker goals with a little higher SPL requirement than that.
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post #11 of 225 Old 06-23-2014, 09:54 AM
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Think you're on the right track Tux!

My first thought was an 8" as well. The main problem will be the height like you mentioned and even some of us that have high ceilings don't have that luxury in the back rows where the risers are higher off the floor. A stepped ceiling would have been a nice addition to many of our theaters in hindsight lol.
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post #12 of 225 Old 06-23-2014, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
Ceiling mounted surround speakers are coming, (I think). So what is the collective wisdom of this group on the lowest possible profile DIY speaker we can hang up there and get the benefit of the Atmos system? Not someting we can recess but something we can hang from our double 5/8 drywall ceilings without cutting holes to leak the sound.
At the very moment I am considering purchasing eight Volt10's from Erich. Although there is supposedly an upgraded one in the works, or a better one. I'm not sure.

How bout those? Flatpack and everything.
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post #13 of 225 Old 06-23-2014, 10:49 AM
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At the very moment I am considering purchasing eight Volt10's from Erich. Although there is supposedly an upgraded one in the works, or a better one. I'm not sure.

How bout those? Flatpack and everything.
The Volt's sound fantastic as is. I know there will be more expensive models at some point, and to each their own, but for me the Volt 10's will be incredible surround speakers. I've been using them as mains for a month or so now until I can build my 1099 LCR's.

If you have the ceiling height, I think the Volt 8's or 10's would be killer.
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post #14 of 225 Old 06-23-2014, 11:07 AM
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The Volt's sound fantastic as is. I know there will be more expensive models at some point, and to each their own, but for me the Volt 10's will be incredible surround speakers. I've been using them as mains for a month or so now until I can build my 1099 LCR's.

If you have the ceiling height, I think the Volt 8's or 10's would be killer.
Hell yeah, man. I imagine they are pretty sweet mains. Should keep you happy til you get your 1099's all done.

Hrmph! Now I don't have an option to add them to the cart at DIYSG. Guess I have no choice but to wait to see what comes out of a new model or not.

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post #15 of 225 Old 06-23-2014, 11:14 AM
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Hell yeah, man. I imagine they are pretty sweet mains. Should keep you happy til you get your 1099's all done.

Hrmph! Now I don't have an option to add them to the cart at DIYSG. Guess I have no choice but to wait to see what comes out of a new model or not.
That's weird! I wonder if Erich is out of the Beta 10cx's or if it's a crossover part availability issue. Either way, I'm sure they won't end up as Elusive as the 1099's!
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post #16 of 225 Old 06-23-2014, 11:18 AM - Thread Starter
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I just used some of the JTR low profile 8 inch coaxial speakers for surrounds in a project. They are only 7 inches deep. The Volts are 9 1/2 deep, So how about a slimmed down version of the Volts or it's successor as a DIY alternative. Width is not an issue it is the depth for a ceiling intall. Flat pack please.

http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/single-8ht-lp/
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post #17 of 225 Old 06-23-2014, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
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I just used some of the JTR low profile 8 inch coaxial speakers for surrounds in a project. They are only 7 inches deep. The Volts are 9 1/2 deep, So how about a slimmed down version of the Volts or it's successor as a DIY alternative. Width is not an issue it is the depth for a ceiling intall. Flat pack please.

http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/single-8ht-lp/
Ah yeah those a lil smaller than the Volt10. Not sure about the 8's. There is a slanted version available and that will have a slightly narrower depth but it is an angle so there's that. Maybe just build the regular version and take that sucker to a band saw. I guess it could be modified in that way though. That's a pretty affordable option. Or just straight up DIY the cab and buy the kit with no flatpack.

Btw, I definitely want to meet up with you at CEDIA if you are going.

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post #18 of 225 Old 06-23-2014, 12:59 PM
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Not going to happen in my living room. You guys can tell me how good it is
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post #19 of 225 Old 06-23-2014, 01:37 PM
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With your construction skills you need to build yourself a dedicated theater !

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post #20 of 225 Old 06-23-2014, 02:21 PM
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With your construction skills you need to build yourself a dedicated theater !
Hey you raise the money for an addition to my house and I am all for it
Where I live a 3 bedroom 2000sqft home is 550 000.. I'm mortgaged out.
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post #21 of 225 Old 06-23-2014, 03:12 PM
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Hey you raise the money for an addition to my house and I am all for it
Where I live a 3 bedroom 2000sqft home is 550 000.. I'm mortgaged out.
Wow. That must be one nice place to live. Couldn't deal with that on our current income. Have close to 5000sqft for under 350k with 5 acres and no neighbors.
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post #22 of 225 Old 06-23-2014, 03:26 PM
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Wow. That must be one nice place to live. Couldn't deal with that on our current income. Have close to 5000sqft for under 350k with 5 acres and no neighbors.
Nice place but crazy expensive. Would move but our jobs are here.
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post #23 of 225 Old 06-23-2014, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
I just used some of the JTR low profile 8 inch coaxial speakers for surrounds in a project. They are only 7 inches deep. The Volts are 9 1/2 deep, So how about a slimmed down version of the Volts or it's successor as a DIY alternative. Width is not an issue it is the depth for a ceiling intall. Flat pack please.

http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/single-8ht-lp/
You can redesign the volt cabinet for a much smaller depth - rivaling the JTR. I got some feedback from mtg90 here (he designed the crossover) about the pertinent dimensions. I tried to build a cabinet with slanted sides as you described, but I haven't been able to make it work yet (back burner). See my proof of concept in my theater build thread, here. obv no flatpack at this point. Compound miters are tough on a CNC.
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post #24 of 225 Old 06-23-2014, 05:19 PM
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Wow. That must be one nice place to live. Couldn't deal with that on our current income. Have close to 5000sqft for under 350k with 5 acres and no neighbors.
I will just leave this here: http://www.crackshackormansion.com/
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post #25 of 225 Old 06-23-2014, 05:21 PM
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Seems like Dolby is keeping a pretty tight lid kn Atmos info until CEDIA. I am waiting to see what it will require from ceiling mounted speakers. The Volt's or a modified Beyma like Beastaudio uses should have potential.

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post #26 of 225 Old 06-23-2014, 05:39 PM
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I think there's an inductor out of stock on the V-10 that Parts Express will have in this week.

MTG90 and I had discussed putting the V-8 in a shallow box which wouldn't be any problem at all. Getting a 14" x 14" baffle for that model is easy. The box would barely be worth flat packing because it's just a 6.25" deep box at 14" x 14" before the baffle. Could be done though.


But it sounds like we should be looking for the 6.5" coaxials. There was a design done quite a while ago for one of those but the designer and I weren't 100% sure what we were going to do with it.

I heard them in my living room and they sounded great. Plenty loud enough even for surround sound in larger rooms. The only problem was that it was quite a bit more than the Volt models, which is why we weren't sure if the DIY guys would want to spend more for a smaller model.
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post #27 of 225 Old 06-23-2014, 07:25 PM
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A couple of these in your theater's recessed light socket, and you should be good to go

http://www.amazon.com/Sylvania-72284.../dp/B0057A2EQ6

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post #28 of 225 Old 06-23-2014, 08:24 PM
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Definetily the flagship on wall speaker from Artison:

Masterpiece LCRDM MK2



It can be ordered ceiling mounted with designer grills or flush mounted with grills painted to match the ceiling.

4 x 3.5" Carbon Fiber Midrange/Woofers
16 x 1" ART drivers in curved line array
1 x 1" Stage tweeter

80 Hz - 30 KHz +/- 3 db
100 - 250 watts
6 ohms
89 db
29 pounds aluminum body
29" high x 6.2" wide x 2.5" deep

http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...speaker-system
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post #29 of 225 Old 06-24-2014, 04:35 AM - Thread Starter
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A couple of these in your theater's recessed light socket, and you should be good to go

http://www.amazon.com/Sylvania-72284.../dp/B0057A2EQ6
Perfect compliment for my Clapper light controls.
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post #30 of 225 Old 06-24-2014, 06:49 AM
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I'l be interested to see where this goes.

I would like add that weight may be an issue as well. I certainly didn't design my ceiling with plans of mounting speakers up there.

Dude, are you made of leprechauns? Cause that was awesome!

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