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-   -   Sub Upgrade Build Dayton Audio UM18-22 18" x 2 LLT (http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1586770-sub-upgrade-build-dayton-audio-um18-22-18-x-2-llt.html)

javanpohl 06-30-2014 11:10 PM

Sub Upgrade Build Dayton Audio UM18-22 18" x 2 LLT
 
So I'm going to start finishing my basement here pretty soon and, as I currently have an IB sub that is using the bass-ment for its backend, I need/want to re-do the sub first. I'm wanting to go with a ported design, tune to the 15hz range. I'm currently using 4 x Dayton Audio DCS450-4s and since they have a pretty high Fs (24.9hz) and low xmax (8.25mm), I'm thinking of upgrading to two Dayton Audio UM18-22 18inchers. They come in at 19.51Hz and 22mm. If I go for about 12.5ft^3, I can tune to 15hz, apparently (I'm just going off their spec sheet for that, haven't plotted it yet.)

I have a crown XLS602 that I've been wanting to upgrade for a while and since it only does 600W at 4 ohms (the newer Daytons are dual 2 ohm voice coiled and rated at 1000w rms 2000w peak), I'm thinking an upgrade is needed. I was thinking the NU6000DSP... but is there some sort of middle ground amp? the 3000DSP does 2 x 880 at 4 ohm and the 6000DSP does 2 x 3000 at 4 ohm. Kinda seems like overkill, but, as it's not even close to twice the price of the 3000, I guess it's kind of a steal. But would I need to upgrade my outlet for that sucker? lol

Anyhoo, advice is welcomed.

chalugadp 06-30-2014 11:31 PM

The inuke6000dsp is 2200 watts bridged. You can use the limiter to dial it back a little more. I think normal outlet will work with 6000.

javanpohl 07-01-2014 09:34 AM

I'm not sure I follow... do you mean it's 2200 watts bridged in 8 ohms?? I'm not planning on wiring these to 8 ohms, but to 4. For 4 ohms, the specs pretty clearly state that it's 2 x 3000 (or 3100, depending on where you look) watts in 4 ohms. Now I don't know if that's peak or RMS....

Also, what's with the input connection? Does that accept XLR?

Nuno C 07-01-2014 10:34 AM

From what I remember the iNuke 6000 cannot be bridged.
The Ultimax 18 should be able to handle 1200-1500W RMS based on the fact that the Dayton RSS460-18 can handle similar (going off testing at Data-Bass)
The iNuke 6k has been tested and is good for at least 1800W RMS at 4ohms.

Get the iNuke 6000 DSP as it allows you apply some EQ and power limiters. I have one and find the DSP features very useful.
Run one driver off each channel and call it a day.

javanpohl 07-01-2014 10:38 AM

Bah... I just saw that the Ultimax 18 is out of stock. Are there any other comparable drivers?

Scott Simonian 07-01-2014 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chalugadp (Post 25399810)
The inuke6000dsp is 2200 watts bridged. You can use the limiter to dial it back a little more. I think normal outlet will work with 6000.

The 6000 can not be bridged. However it does output nearly 2kw per channel @4ohm .

Nice! Love to see some LLT builds. :)

javanpohl 07-01-2014 10:54 AM

Sounds like the 6000DSP it is, thanks guy! So will it take the XLR input? Spec sheet says it's a combo input, does that mean it can be swapped out for one or the other or it will actually take an XLR?

And is Part-express pretty reliable on their availability dates? It's currently saying these will be back in stock 7/29, so I suppose I could wait a month. I could make my cabinets really pretty in a month.

Scott Simonian 07-01-2014 10:56 AM

It's currently in stock on Amazon for $400. Prime shipping. Could have it at your place by tomorrow. ;)

javanpohl 07-01-2014 10:58 AM

Also, what's the best way to do the mounting holes? T-nuts? I used those on my last build and they were a nightmare (the last few minutes of the job turned into 3 hours), but maybe I just had a few angled very slightly

Scott Simonian 07-01-2014 11:00 AM

T-nuts are the devil.

I just put the screws straight into the wood.

javanpohl 07-01-2014 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Simonian (Post 25409266)
It's currently in stock on Amazon for $400. Prime shipping. Could have it at your place by tomorrow. ;)

Sorry, I was talking about the drivers being out of stock. I am thinking of going ahead and getting the amp though. I'd like to try that sucker out. Know of anyone successfully swapping out the fan for a quieter one?

Edit: Nevermind ....
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...elp-quick.html

Bud Heavy 07-01-2014 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by javanpohl (Post 25409234)
Sounds like the 6000DSP it is, thanks guy! So will it take the XLR input? Spec sheet says it's a combo input, does that mean it can be swapped out for one or the other or it will actually take an XLR?

And is Part-express pretty reliable on their availability dates? It's currently saying these will be back in stock 7/29, so I suppose I could wait a month. I could make my cabinets really pretty in a month.

This driver has never been in stock. I've been on the waiting list for around 4 months now and they keep pushing the available date back. I will say I think this is the closest to the available date I have seen without them changing it. Maybe this time it's for real! The story I read was when they received the shipment of drivers at the beginning of the year there was a problem with the glue and instead of releasing an inferior product they sent them back to China to be reworked. I applaud PE for not releasing a product that didn't meet there standards. I have suggested box plans from PE if you want to PM me for them. 16hz, 12cubes, 2 x 4" ports.

I believe the 6000dsp takes XLR....mine has been sitting in a box for 4 months now waiting on drivers. Have been meaning to get it out and test it, but haven't.

javanpohl 07-01-2014 02:25 PM

Awesome! Good news. I've been reading up on the associated thread. Looks like we have a bunch of good drivers due or expected out this month. That SI 18ht also looks pretty damn good, especially for the price.

I'm good on box plans, I'm pretty handy in that regard, thanks though, but how long are the ports?

Bud Heavy 07-01-2014 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by javanpohl (Post 25414682)
Awesome! Good news. I've been reading up on the associated thread. Looks like we have a bunch of good drivers due or expected out this month. That SI 18ht also looks pretty damn good, especially for the price.

I'm good on box plans, I'm pretty handy in that regard, thanks though, but how long are the ports?

PE's plans are for a 29.3" cube with 2 - 18.84" long 4" round ports. Add 1" for flared.

javanpohl 07-07-2014 11:52 AM

So I'm starting to lean quite strongly towards the Stereo Integrity HT 18" subwoofer. It seems to have very similar specs, but is about a $100 cheaper and it seems less likely that it WON'T be available by the end of the month. Any opinions on that? I won't need a bigger enclosure for the SI, will I?

asarose247 07-07-2014 12:21 PM

re swaping fans on the Inuke6000 DSP,


I used 2 Noctua NF (?) , the only snag being that the noctua has 3 wires and the board uses a 2 pin attachment for the stock fans.
So I cut, stripped and pigtailed the right 2 wires from the new fans onto a pigtail maybe 6 inches attached to the stock attachment 2 pin.
The stock wires "may" be "secured" with some hot melt in a few places along the board feeding to the stock fans.
Be gentle and patient with it.
I checked out the Noctua site to find out which wire was which, I think the yellow is a "speed" controller, which the Inuke doesn't have.
Worth the effort if the amp is in the same room.


ow-NP

dtsdig 07-07-2014 12:21 PM

Enclosure sizes required should be very similar. The SI is an incredible value. I absolutely love the 2 that I am currently using and I'm sure once I get the other two into the mix, it will be even more awesome.
Since nobody has gotten their hands on the Dayton yet, who knows how things will turn out. I would imagine that it is going to be a great driver though!

javanpohl 07-07-2014 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtsdig (Post 25554873)
Enclosure sizes required should be very similar. The SI is an incredible value. I absolutely love the 2 that I am currently using and I'm sure once I get the other two into the mix, it will be even more awesome.
Since nobody has gotten their hands on the Dayton yet, who knows how things will turn out. I would imagine that it is going to be a great driver though!

Nice! What amp are you using? I'm thinking of running them at 2ohms a piece and going with the 3000DSP now, which can do 1000w at 2ohms and the SIs are rated at 600w so I figure that's plenty of headroom... right? (I'm really trying to save some money here by NOT having to get the 6000DSP.)

dtsdig 07-07-2014 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by javanpohl (Post 25556474)
Nice! What amp are you using? I'm thinking of running them at 2ohms a piece and going with the 3000DSP now, which can do 1000w at 2ohms and the SIs are rated at 600w so I figure that's plenty of headroom... right? (I'm really trying to save some money here by NOT having to get the 6000DSP.)

I'm using the NU4-6000 four channel amp. It's been awesome and I can't wait to put the other two channels to use soon. I use a 2x4 balanced MiniDSP for eq.

tential 07-07-2014 01:41 PM

Which subs do you own DTSdig? (size)

Do you think the NU4-6000 would be enough for the Ultimax 15?
I feel like I need to bridge the channels to get the full effect of the driver?

javanpohl 07-07-2014 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtsdig (Post 25556594)
I'm using the NU4-6000 four channel amp. It's been awesome and I can't wait to put the other two channels to use soon. I use a 2x4 balanced MiniDSP for eq.

Good to know. So if I want to run at 2 ohms, I get the dual 4 ohm version and run in parallel, right? Or do I just get the 2 ohm version... I guess my question is can you wire those dual voice coils to run in series or parallel or are they not that flexible?

dtsdig 07-07-2014 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by javanpohl (Post 25557370)
Good to know. So if I want to run at 2 ohms, I get the dual 4 ohm version and run in parallel, right? Or do I just get the 2 ohm version... I guess my question is can you wire those dual voice coils to run in series or parallel or are they not that flexible?

Exactly. If you want to run at two ohms per sub, get the dual 4 ohm versions and parallel them.

javanpohl 07-08-2014 10:03 AM

I ordered two of the SI HT 18s... though I inadvertently ordered the 2 ohm instead of the 4 ohm. Trying to get ahold of them to correct that. I also ordered the 3000DSP.

Scott Simonian 07-08-2014 10:06 AM

Are they even in stock?

javanpohl 07-08-2014 11:19 AM

Nope... shoulda said "pre-ordered". As they are not a new item and I saw some people saying SI is pretty reliable, I went ahead and went with them. They are supposed to be back in stock "the last few weeks of July".

javanpohl 07-08-2014 11:32 AM

I'm also planning on putting together a CAD design for this so I can just take it to a wood shop and have them cut it for me. A local shop charges $120/hour of CNC cutting so I figure that'd definitely be worth it as I was going to buy a table saw for $250-ish. Not to mention that the toughest part is cutting the holes... and I won't have to deal with MDF dust ::cough:: I can't imagine that it would take more than 2 hours to cut up four pieces of 4x8 MDF, but does anyone have experience otherwise? It doesn't take long does it?--to do the cuts?

I just started using Sketchup yesterday. I was thinking I'd contact the shop to make sure of how I need to submit my designs to them. They also offer design help but I want to get some practice with CAD anyways.

Bassment 07-08-2014 12:05 PM

$120 per hour of pure cutting time or total time? Do they charge for putting the sheets on and taking the cut pieces off the table? Erich can probably tell you exactly how long it takes to cut a sheet of mdf.

javanpohl 07-08-2014 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bassment (Post 25582153)
$120 per hour of pure cutting time or total time? Do they charge for putting the sheets on and taking the cut pieces off the table? Erich can probably tell you exactly how long it takes to cut a sheet of mdf.

I believe it said cutting time, but I suppose my best bet is just to give them a call.

javanpohl 07-16-2014 03:53 PM

So I'm leaning away from this cnc idea, don't think it's really all that necessary (I realized I could use a hole saw for the pieces of bracing instead of a circle jig and router). So now I'm thinking of either having Lowe's do the cuts for me and make a standard rectangular box (I'm assuming they don't do angled cuts) or getting my hands on a table saw so I can do a more trapezoidal box (the back would be 90 degrees but the front bevel would be angled). Would that really make a difference at all though? It'd be a piece of cake to just have Lowe's do the cuts for me and I can't really see an angled front making a huge difference performance wise.

mhutchins 07-16-2014 08:22 PM

Have you considered any of the offerings from DIY Sound Group or Chalugadp ? They both offer ready to assemble subwoofer kits. You provide the driver and glue and buy the flat pack enclosure from one of the guys above. They are all pretty easy to build and will get you a finished product in the least amount of time. They both are highly recommended!

Mike


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