I need help with a design and driver! - Page 2 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 4Likes
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-04-2014, 05:07 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,782
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 377 Post(s)
Liked: 521
My winisd computer is at the office so I can't model this weekend. The UXL seems to be the ticket so far except those drivers take forever to get.
MKtheater is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 07-04-2014, 11:16 PM
Senior Member
 
mrevo2u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 209
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post
I built a 30cuft box for a 21" ftw tuned at 13hz. With 2200 watts from inuke it has crazy output.

Do you have more details on this box? I have 4 ftw21's that I have been trying to pick a box for.
mrevo2u is offline  
Old 07-04-2014, 11:20 PM
Bass Enabler
 
Scott Simonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Clovis, CA
Posts: 14,322
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 863 Post(s)
Liked: 1037
Ahhhh.... interesting. I think this is the longest you have gone with a particular setup. Past due for some change.


Considering everything you have said that you want out of this.... I'd get two UXL's (or equivalent) and use a resonant alignment of sorts. Or KISS and go sealed. A Cap-clone would be your best bet. Medium-ish size and output aplenty.

EDIT:

Just a sample to give you an idea. One UXL (T/S from D-B) in 6cuft 20hz tune 1,600w input. Lots of Xmax to spare.


My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

Plan9Reloaded Co-host

Listen to the Plan9Reloaded Gaming and Technology Podcast (may contain NSFW language)

https://soundcloud.com/plan9reloaded/sets/podcast - direct pod link

http://plan9reloaded.com/site/ - main website


Last edited by Scott Simonian; 07-04-2014 at 11:25 PM.
Scott Simonian is offline  
Old 07-04-2014, 11:24 PM
AVS Special Member
 
chalugadp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 5,604
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1207 Post(s)
Liked: 1165
2' wide by 4' high by 4' long. 6" high port going 38" back. Don't have the graph anymore but it was like 122 dB's from 15 hz and up, topping out at 125dbs. Tuning was 13 hz.
chalugadp is offline  
Old 07-04-2014, 11:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
chalugadp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 5,604
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1207 Post(s)
Liked: 1165
Big Marty box.
chalugadp is offline  
Old 07-05-2014, 07:27 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 24,230
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 197 Post(s)
Liked: 1017
Seems like port length would need be longer for that tune ...?

I did a 42" x24" x24" and port length was like 60" for 20hz.

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
Mfusick is online now  
Old 07-05-2014, 09:49 AM
AVS Special Member
 
dominguez1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,903
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 139 Post(s)
Liked: 217
Love it MK! Subscribed.

This setup works very well in my room with low tuned subs nearfield. Add that to what you already have, and your HT will be even more frightening than it is!!
dominguez1 is online now  
Old 07-05-2014, 10:30 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Fatshaft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 1,469
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 186 Post(s)
Liked: 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post
2' wide by 4' high by 4' long. 6" high port going 38" back. Don't have the graph anymore but it was like 122 dB's from 15 hz and up, topping out at 125dbs. Tuning was 13 hz.

Is this for a FTW21?
Holy smokes that's BIG!

My Build Thread
Equipment Speakers:
3x 1099's for LCR duty
4x Fusion 8's for surround duty
8x subs: 4x FTW21's and 4x SI18's
Fatshaft is online now  
Old 07-05-2014, 10:46 AM
AVS Special Member
 
chalugadp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 5,604
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1207 Post(s)
Liked: 1165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
Seems like port length would need be longer for that tune ...?

I did a 42" x24" x24" and port length was like 60" for 20hz.
Yours is almost identical to minimarty and mini has 17hz and 38" port. I will double check the drawing but I know its pretty close to 38".
chalugadp is offline  
Old 07-05-2014, 10:46 AM
AVS Special Member
 
chalugadp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 5,604
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1207 Post(s)
Liked: 1165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatshaft View Post
Is this for a FTW21?
Holy smokes that's BIG!
Yes
chalugadp is offline  
Old 07-05-2014, 11:07 AM
AVS Special Member
 
chalugadp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 5,604
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1207 Post(s)
Liked: 1165
Mfusick,
You were partially right. Bigger then 38". It is 44".
chalugadp is offline  
Old 07-05-2014, 01:21 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,782
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 377 Post(s)
Liked: 521
How about a 15 cubed box with the hole on the 21 inch side? The port would be 68 inches and 8 inches round or however you figure the slot port. 3x12 would be 48 inches long for 11hz tune as well. This is for the UXL. 113 dBs at 10hz.
Mfusick likes this.
MKtheater is online now  
Old 07-06-2014, 06:53 PM
AVS Special Member
 
dominguez1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,903
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 139 Post(s)
Liked: 217
dominguez1 is online now  
Old 07-06-2014, 06:55 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,782
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 377 Post(s)
Liked: 521
Yes
MKtheater is online now  
Old 07-06-2014, 07:23 PM
AVS Special Member
 
dominguez1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,903
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 139 Post(s)
Liked: 217
I'd highly recommend starting with the rear subs first...and then if not enough, port your IB.

My guess would be that the rear ported subs nearfield would do it for you...

Porting your IB may get you the same output at 5hz as with sealed, but it will be more difficult to get to as you might run into bottoming out problems trying to eq that low with the ported design...
dominguez1 is online now  
Old 07-06-2014, 07:49 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,782
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 377 Post(s)
Liked: 521
I don't EQ below 10hz, that is all room. I could always turn my sealed up as well for the same effect. I don't need to add anything, just need rear stands for my surrounds and figured why not add sub for the heck of it. If I add 11 hz tuned ported subs to surrounds then it makes sense to have 11 hz tuned front so everything blends easily.
MKtheater is online now  
Old 07-06-2014, 08:27 PM
AVS Special Member
 
dominguez1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,903
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 139 Post(s)
Liked: 217
Definitely don't need anything from an SPL or pressure perspective!

I do think some adding some near field ported subs will up your "tactile feedback" HT experience that much more though!

I sit on concrete as well (no riser), and while I don't have as much pressure sensation as you, the tactile feedback I get from my near field ported subs and my HT seating is brutal. If I could add your pressure, to my tactile feedback, it would be nirvana. That's why I'm pushing you to those ported subs in the rear!
dominguez1 is online now  
Old 07-06-2014, 08:50 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,782
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 377 Post(s)
Liked: 521
My seats are on wood now and I feel everything. The rear subs are a done deal, just figuring out box design and drivers. If the UXL were available I would already have them blasting! I know having a port in your back adds tactile response but I can turn my gain up even more for more vibrations, pressure, etc. I have shakers in all my seats that I don't use which I could add as well. I thought they were OK but I like what bass feels like naturally. I still like the concrete bass better than the riser bass but the sweet spot for surrounds is awesome! The dual stacked surrounds are awesome as well but I will raise them with the subs/stands. I would never give up my single digits for ported so if I port it will be low. My 14.5hz tuned DTS-10's went to 9hz in room so 11 hz will go to around 5 hz so the signal chain will act as the HP filter. I know because I never needed them with the DTS-10's.
MKtheater is online now  
Old 07-06-2014, 09:17 PM
AVS Special Member
 
dominguez1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,903
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 139 Post(s)
Liked: 217
I think you're going down the right path! I personally wouldn't add shakers unless a last resort...the natural shake is the most realistic to me. Crowsons come damn close...and do a great job in the single digits in particular.

I have to caveat my ht experience though... My ht seating has a resonant frequency sweet spot between 10 and 20hz. So what I experience may be more perfect storm with my setup, as opposed to a recipe that everyone can cook up.

My opinion though is that it is a recipe that can be recreated even without my ht seating, just may not be as prevalent.

There's a real business idea out there if someone can make ht seating tuned to a certain resonant frequency...or even a riser tuned to a specific frequency...
dominguez1 is online now  
Old 07-06-2014, 09:22 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,782
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 377 Post(s)
Liked: 521
Maybe it has to do with the sweet spot of the FV15HP rather than the seats?
MKtheater is online now  
Old 07-06-2014, 09:25 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,782
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 377 Post(s)
Liked: 521
I will try the ported IB first since I can do that in one night and I can always seal it back up. I have a feeling I won't. The only thing I worry about subs in the back is knowing they are there or localization and I Iove the bass coming from the front. Well, you can't tell where the woofs are actually.
MKtheater is online now  
Old 07-07-2014, 05:17 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Martycool007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,692
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 280 Post(s)
Liked: 172
This is the first that I have heard about a ported IB. How would you model this in order to get the correct tune? Would the ideal driver specs for a sealed IB still apply to a ported IB?

I would absolutely love to take my Dayton HO18's and try out an IB build when I start to build my baffle wall, but, I know that my HO18's are not optimal for a traditional IB setup. Can anyone tell me how they would fair for a ported IB setup?

Would a ported IB setup require less watts/current/voltage compared to a sealed IB setup?
Martycool007 is offline  
Old 07-07-2014, 07:17 AM
Advanced Member
 
Bassment's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 899
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 411 Post(s)
Liked: 164
I would assume you model it exactly like any other ported sub, the sealed room behind your IB is your box volume, the ports he's adding are the port length/diameter.
Bassment is offline  
Old 07-07-2014, 07:32 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 24,230
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 197 Post(s)
Liked: 1017
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post
This is the first that I have heard about a ported IB. How would you model this in order to get the correct tune? Would the ideal driver specs for a sealed IB still apply to a ported IB?

I would absolutely love to take my Dayton HO18's and try out an IB build when I start to build my baffle wall, but, I know that my HO18's are not optimal for a traditional IB setup. Can anyone tell me how they would fair for a ported IB setup?

Would a ported IB setup require less watts/current/voltage compared to a sealed IB setup?
Do you mean a big ported box ? They would work well but not enough "better" to take them out of your current ported boxes. I'd leave it alone and add another super low tuned cabinet to fill the bottom. If you hard cut from port tune and under your current subs and then pad down the super low tune new cab above the port tune of your current subs they should blend well. 9hz port. Do it. Add another sub. You know you want to do it

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
Mfusick is online now  
Old 07-07-2014, 08:11 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,782
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 377 Post(s)
Liked: 521
I have the luxury of having my box being a wall which means I can change and go back when needed. If I had separate subs I would have to make new boxes and in my situation I just need to route holes and add port or seal the hole up again.
MKtheater is online now  
Old 07-07-2014, 10:22 AM
Bass Enabler
 
Scott Simonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Clovis, CA
Posts: 14,322
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 863 Post(s)
Liked: 1037
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post
This is the first that I have heard about a ported IB. How would you model this in order to get the correct tune? Would the ideal driver specs for a sealed IB still apply to a ported IB?

I would absolutely love to take my Dayton HO18's and try out an IB build when I start to build my baffle wall, but, I know that my HO18's are not optimal for a traditional IB setup. Can anyone tell me how they would fair for a ported IB setup?

Would a ported IB setup require less watts/current/voltage compared to a sealed IB setup?
Ported IB = LLT = very large resonant alignment

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

Plan9Reloaded Co-host

Listen to the Plan9Reloaded Gaming and Technology Podcast (may contain NSFW language)

https://soundcloud.com/plan9reloaded/sets/podcast - direct pod link

http://plan9reloaded.com/site/ - main website

Scott Simonian is offline  
Old 07-10-2014, 09:52 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,782
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 377 Post(s)
Liked: 521
So I figured using the RE XXX 15 will give me the best results for my two boxes for the surround stands. Winisd modeled them for a 16 cubic foot box with a 11 hz tune. This requires a 3x16 slot port 61 inches long or a 7.5 inch round port 55 inches long. The velocities are both OK since I won't use all of their potential. Anyone have a box idea? It needs to be 20 inches tall.
MKtheater is online now  
Old 07-10-2014, 11:02 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 24,230
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 197 Post(s)
Liked: 1017
Do you prefer deeper than wide or wider than deep ?
Mfusick is online now  
Old 07-10-2014, 12:00 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,782
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 377 Post(s)
Liked: 521
Wider than deep
MKtheater is online now  
Old 07-10-2014, 01:52 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 24,230
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 197 Post(s)
Liked: 1017
42" wide, 36" deep and 20" height ?

15 cubes before port, bracing and driver.

about 11 after probably. perhaps 10 with a bigger port.

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
Mfusick is online now  
 
Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off