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post #31 of 170 Old 07-07-2014, 01:38 AM
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Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post
Shipping is always negotiable. Just need to find the right company. It hasn't gone up in the last 5,months. I've shipped lots of heavy items in that time.

I don't want to really hear he has to raise prices. He does a group buy, builds interest, then drops the ball by not having product ready. Doesn't really matter why its not ready for customers.
I agree. That group buy was what, 6 months ago? I know when I started visiting this area of AVS for the first time I had just missed it. Was he taking a huge loss selling at the group buy price? I would think so if he needed to raise the price of the driver $20 now due to cost increases; doesn't that put the current price of the driver +$120 over the group buy price?

Product availability is certainly a big deal to most.
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post #32 of 170 Old 07-07-2014, 06:49 AM
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I like it.

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"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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post #33 of 170 Old 07-07-2014, 07:52 AM
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Barely any 18" subs are available right now, the DIY sub market is different than other businesses, you can't just expect everything to be in stock all the time. The UXL competes with a $900 driver, $550 is still a bargain. The CAD price increase shouldn't effect the US customer that much, the CAD is kind of weak right now it's fallen a few % the past year.
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post #34 of 170 Old 07-07-2014, 09:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Just emailed Mark and he said there was a 10-14 day lead time on my drivers, so I can take some time to finish the enclosures.

The kits that Erich sends includes the front panel with the hole for the 18" driver cut out, but it did not come with rounded edges (which I like). I plan on attempting my first roundover today. Considering I just bought the router a week and a half ago, and a complete noob to this, I will be practicing on a few scrap pieces of 3/4 MDF I have laying around so I can get it right the first time.

My Home Theater Build: The Vortex Theater Build
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post #35 of 170 Old 07-07-2014, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by ClemsonJeeper View Post
Just emailed Mark and he said there was a 10-14 day lead time on my drivers, so I can take some time to finish the enclosures.

The kits that Erich sends includes the front panel with the hole for the 18" driver cut out, but it did not come with rounded edges (which I like). I plan on attempting my first roundover today. Considering I just bought the router a week and a half ago, and a complete noob to this, I will be practicing on a few scrap pieces of 3/4 MDF I have laying around so I can get it right the first time.
Don't worry, doing a roundover with a router is extremely easy. Just set the depth right on another piece of wood and you can't mess up if you keep the router flat on the wood.
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post #36 of 170 Old 07-07-2014, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemsonJeeper View Post
Just emailed Mark and he said there was a 10-14 day lead time on my drivers, so I can take some time to finish the enclosures.

The kits that Erich sends includes the front panel with the hole for the 18" driver cut out, but it did not come with rounded edges (which I like). I plan on attempting my first roundover today. Considering I just bought the router a week and a half ago, and a complete noob to this, I will be practicing on a few scrap pieces of 3/4 MDF I have laying around so I can get it right the first time.
Great news. Mark told me to expect my invoice soon. Very excited.

As for the round over, have no worries about it. I just did it on my two sub enclosures im building for my UXL's I am expecting and I have never even held a router before. I practiced on a piece of wood and set the depth to what i wanted it and used a 3/8 round over bit. Just had to make sure I kept it flat. I did the edges and the speaker opening. Be prepared because the mdf makes a mess. If you want you can take a look at my build thread.
Robert

Sub build http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...et-r-done.html
Center - JBL LC2
Mains - JBL L820
Surrounds - JBL L820
Sub - Dual UXL'18 enclosures,iNuke6000dsp

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post #37 of 170 Old 07-07-2014, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by BrutalBodyShots View Post
I agree. That group buy was what, 6 months ago? I know when I started visiting this area of AVS for the first time I had just missed it. Was he taking a huge loss selling at the group buy price? I would think so if he needed to raise the price of the driver $20 now due to cost increases; doesn't that put the current price of the driver +$120 over the group buy price?

Product availability is certainly a big deal to most.

I doubt you'll see anymore group buys at those prices. It's not worth it. He may do it again but for the people that got drivers, you'll likely not see that pricing ever again. He can't afford to stay in business if he doesn't make some profit.

This kinda stuff is the reason there are not many smaller driver manufactures around anymore. Everyone wants it NOW and don't want to pay for it or expect it for dirt cheap.

Even though some may be upset that they are not in stock all the time, it's not possible unless he was to out of pocket enough money that he's go out of business. People don't realize what they go through, they just get pissy that they are not in stock, because you know, he is sitting there laughing that no one can buy anything and loving the fact he makes no money on the UXL's for months at a time.. woo hoo!..... must be the ultimate troll.....
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post #38 of 170 Old 07-07-2014, 02:25 PM
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Better to have an excellent driver with spotty production times, than to have another Kevin Haskins incident and see good drivers disappear. And there are many other examples.
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post #39 of 170 Old 07-07-2014, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by wyattroa View Post
Great news. Mark told me to expect my invoice soon. Very excited.

As for the round over, have no worries about it. I just did it on my two sub enclosures im building for my UXL's I am expecting and I have never even held a router before. I practiced on a piece of wood and set the depth to what i wanted it and used a 3/8 round over bit. Just had to make sure I kept it flat. I did the edges and the speaker opening. Be prepared because the mdf makes a mess. If you want you can take a look at my build thread.
Robert

A roundover isn't very difficult but be very careful with a router.
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post #40 of 170 Old 07-07-2014, 03:59 PM
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I doubt you'll see anymore group buys at those prices. It's not worth it. He may do it again but for the people that got drivers, you'll likely not see that pricing ever again. He can't afford to stay in business if he doesn't make some profit.

This kinda stuff is the reason there are not many smaller driver manufactures around anymore. Everyone wants it NOW and don't want to pay for it or expect it for dirt cheap.

Even though some may be upset that they are not in stock all the time, it's not possible unless he was to out of pocket enough money that he's go out of business. People don't realize what they go through, they just get pissy that they are not in stock, because you know, he is sitting there laughing that no one can buy anything and loving the fact he makes no money on the UXL's for months at a time.. woo hoo!..... must be the ultimate troll.....
He has said in the past that he was waiting on parts to come in to produce more drivers. To me that sounds like a supply issue, not a lack of finances issue. Perhaps he can't get the parts he needs from anywhere other than where he currently gets them from. Perhaps he can, and if so maybe should consider it as to not slow down production. Look, sales are king and always have been. The more drivers he sells, the more profit he makes. If the constraint in the line is acquiring parts, that should be a big concern especially if the demand is clearly overwhelming the supply which seems to be the case since there's a 1.5-2 week lead time from the time you order.
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post #41 of 170 Old 07-07-2014, 04:47 PM
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Theres really no point in hashing it out, you guys can just believe what ever you want. It will all be wrong but I'm gonna leave it at, he's doing the best he can. If you don't like it? buy something else, it's as simple as that.
Everyone is an armchair business owner lol
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post #42 of 170 Old 07-07-2014, 06:39 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm not sweating the wait. 500$ USD for an 18" driver that has such positive reviews is a good deal to me.

And you guys were right, the roundover was extremely easy. I practiced a bit on some spare MDF and then did the front of both boxes. Turned out great.

I'll post some pics when I get the next stage prepped, sanding, filling, sanding, sealing, sanding, priming, finishing with Duratex to match the rest of the speakers for the HT.

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post #43 of 170 Old 07-07-2014, 06:59 PM
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Personally I prefer the look of the 1/4" round over compared to the 3/8" or 1/2", I did 3/8" on the first two subs that I built and 1/4" for the second two.
The other reason that I like the 1/4" is if you have any screw heads close to the edges the 3/8" round over might cut into the screw heads. Which can mess up your router bits.
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post #44 of 170 Old 07-07-2014, 07:18 PM
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Personally I prefer the look of the 1/4" round over compared to the 3/8" or 1/2", I did 3/8" on the first two subs that I built and 1/4" for the second two.
The other reason that I like the 1/4" is if you have any screw heads close to the edges the 3/8" round over might cut into the screw heads. Which can mess up your router bits.
That's why I don't use screws anymore. Just glue and brad nails. Router will go through stray nail like butter. Building my first downfiring cube tonight. Your right Kev, it is relaxing.... As long as your cuts are good
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post #45 of 170 Old 07-07-2014, 07:51 PM
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Theres really no point in hashing it out, you guys can just believe what ever you want. It will all be wrong but I'm gonna leave it at, he's doing the best he can. If you don't like it? buy something else, it's as simple as that.
Everyone is an armchair business owner lol
And you're just making false assumptions. You're assuming his inability to keep up with demand is due to financial reasons, and I'm telling you that straight from Mark he's said the reason has to do with his wait time on parts. I'm making my statements based on my communication with the owner, not just assumptions.
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post #46 of 170 Old 07-07-2014, 08:16 PM
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You realize that I'm personal friends with him right? and live 15 minutes away and was at his house a week ago..... But ya, he's gonna tell some guy on the internet everything about the business. lol this stuff is just common sense, I've got a bunch of friends in the driver/audio manufacturing business and it's the same crap for every single on of them.

Would you be down to pay $20,000 for 10,000 CF speaker cones? He's not Dayton and even Dayton isn't that stupid, he can't afford to do entire runs of parts on his own and getting stuck with huge amounts of inventory and 10's of thousands of dollars tied up in parts doing nothing. He's got to wait for other companys to fill the rest of the orders before production runs can start on custom parts and get his amount he needs. How do you think all the other smaller driver companys went belly up? But of course you know all this.

You see how you have no clue how it works? He makes a lot of his own parts that he can but stuff gets back ordered, suppliers don't carry certain things anymore and he's a one man business. I know you guys think that the UXL's just fly of the shelves and that may be true at times but what about when you get weeks with little to no orders? Oh ya, the 20K you have tied up in parts that can do nothing for you will pay all the bills.......

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post #47 of 170 Old 07-07-2014, 08:58 PM
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You realize that I'm personal friends with him right? and live 15 minutes away and was at his house a week ago..... But ya, he's gonna tell some guy on the internet everything about the business. lol this stuff is just common sense, I've got a bunch of friends in the driver/audio manufacturing business and it's the same crap for every single on of them.

Would you be down to pay $20,000 for 10,000 CF speaker cones? He's not Dayton and even Dayton isn't that stupid, he can't afford to do entire runs of parts on his own and getting stuck with huge amounts of inventory and 10's of thousands of dollars tied up in parts doing nothing. He's got to wait for other companys to fill the rest of the orders before production runs can start on custom parts and get his amount he needs. How do you think all the other smaller driver companys went belly up? But of course you know all this.

You see how you have no clue how it works? He makes a lot of his own parts that he can but stuff gets back ordered, suppliers don't carry certain things anymore and he's a one man business. I know you guys think that the UXL's just fly of the shelves and that may be true at times but what about when you get weeks with little to no orders? Oh ya, the 20K you have tied up in parts that can do nothing for you will pay all the bills.......
Nope, didn't realize you were personal friends with him. Was I supposed to know that? Again, my response was completely based on my communications with him. He said it was a delay on getting parts, so that's what I went with. Nice job with the rest of your rant; it was very insightful.
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post #48 of 170 Old 07-07-2014, 09:14 PM
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Ya, I do tend to rant now and then. He just tries so hard to keep everyone happy and gets the gears for not having drivers in stock all the time. It would be different if he had some serious cash flow to buy everything in huge amounts but the UXL's are what sells. He's got parts to build his IXL's, although everyone wants the UXL's and spec'd parts are not as easy to get.

He was talking about some lower cost/weight 21's as well as his prototype he's got planned that could change the way you look at subs all together but again, he waiting for parts. It sucks to be at the mercy of a supplier..... Thats exactly how Exodus audio went under, supplier sent him defective drivers and he had all his money tied up in them, another one man show down! they were all pretty much garbage from a bad epoxy job and that was that, something as small as bad epoxying of a ring! The Mal-x's were awesome drivers and I still have 2 of the 21's! Mark has learned from that, as did all the guys I'd bet and they don't want that to happen to them.

It's always more complicated than it may seem.

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post #49 of 170 Old 07-07-2014, 10:07 PM
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Nope, didn't realize you were personal friends with him. Was I supposed to know that? Again, my response was completely based on my communications with him. He said it was a delay on getting parts, so that's what I went with. Nice job with the rest of your rant; it was very insightful.
In Nate's defense its well documented in most threads that talk about the UXL-18 that are order then the group buy thread that he has a lot of "insight" into Marks drivers. aka buddy's with Mark. I knew this without even really knowing Nate at the time. Oh and Nate's a really good guy with a lot of knowledge too so try not to get too bent out of shape.
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post #50 of 170 Old 07-08-2014, 03:49 AM
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In Nate's defense its well documented in most threads that talk about the UXL-18 that are order then the group buy thread that he has a lot of "insight" into Marks drivers. aka buddy's with Mark. I knew this without even really knowing Nate at the time. Oh and Nate's a really good guy with a lot of knowledge too so try not to get too bent out of shape.
Well, clearly I wasn't aware. I've read through most of the UXL-18 threads on here although not the entire group buy thread. Had he prefaced his first half dozen posts with the fact that he knew Mark personally and could offer deeper insight to the conversation as a result I probably wouldn't have even mentioned my emails with Mark because clearly anything I knew would have been overshadowed by his personal contact with him. Typical misunderstanding, and it's all good.
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post #51 of 170 Old 07-08-2014, 05:56 AM
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Alright, how about we get this guys thread back on topic.. MORE PICTURES....LOL

Sub build http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...et-r-done.html
Center - JBL LC2
Mains - JBL L820
Surrounds - JBL L820
Sub - Dual UXL'18 enclosures,iNuke6000dsp
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post #52 of 170 Old 07-08-2014, 06:20 AM - Thread Starter
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It's all good.

Have a bunch of supplies coming this week - the speakon connectors for the boxes, some more duratex, the inuke 6000dsp.

Gonna spend some time today sanding and prepping for duratex. I'll post up pics after.

Incidentally, what do you all use for a microphone for sub calibration? Would this work well for using REW and calibrating my system?

http://www.amazon.com/Dayton-Audio-U.../dp/B00ADR2E68

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post #53 of 170 Old 07-08-2014, 06:27 AM
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Looks like I missed out on the group-buy pricing. But, no sweat. That's what time travel is for.

Great-looking, rock solid build!
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post #54 of 170 Old 07-08-2014, 10:45 AM
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I doubt you'll see anymore group buys at those prices. It's not worth it. He may do it again but for the people that got drivers, you'll likely not see that pricing ever again. He can't afford to stay in business if he doesn't make some profit.

This kinda stuff is the reason there are not many smaller driver manufactures around anymore. Everyone wants it NOW and don't want to pay for it or expect it for dirt cheap.

Even though some may be upset that they are not in stock all the time, it's not possible unless he was to out of pocket enough money that he's go out of business. People don't realize what they go through, they just get pissy that they are not in stock, because you know, he is sitting there laughing that no one can buy anything and loving the fact he makes no money on the UXL's for months at a time.. woo hoo!..... must be the ultimate troll.....
Just a random idea... what if he did a "group buy" at a profitable price, but everyone has to pay up front, or pay half up front or something like that. Then he can do a large order of all the parts he needs, with other people's money.
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post #55 of 170 Old 07-08-2014, 02:14 PM
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Just a random idea... what if he did a "group buy" at a profitable price, but everyone has to pay up front, or pay half up front or something like that. Then he can do a large order of all the parts he needs, with other people's money.
You guys would have to contact him and see. I don't know what his plans are for group buys.

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post #56 of 170 Old 07-08-2014, 06:09 PM
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He was talking about some lower cost/weight 21's as well as his prototype he's got planned that could change the way you look at subs all together but again, he waiting for parts.
.
^^^so here's what I'm interested in do tell more...
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post #57 of 170 Old 07-09-2014, 04:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Anyone have an opinion on the dayton mic I linked above? Would that be a good purchase to run REW and calibrate my system with the 6000dsp?

My Home Theater Build: The Vortex Theater Build
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post #58 of 170 Old 07-09-2014, 05:43 AM
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Anyone have an opinion on the dayton mic I linked above? Would that be a good purchase to run REW and calibrate my system with the 6000dsp?
Not familiar with the Dayton mic, but I know the Umik-1 from miniDSP is specifically for REW and comes calibrated to 10 Hz. If you have sealed subs and want to measure output below 10 you can get it from Cross Spectrum calibrated to 5 Hz.

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post #59 of 170 Old 07-09-2014, 06:37 AM
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Not familiar with the Dayton mic, but I know the Umik-1 from miniDSP is specifically for REW and comes calibrated to 10 Hz. If you have sealed subs and want to measure output below 10 you can get it from Cross Spectrum calibrated to 5 Hz.
I thought it was to 20 hz? I don't think there is much difference between the dayton and umik-1, get whatever one is cheaper.

It's not "calibrated" for under 10 or 20 or whatever hz, but you can still measure below. Personally I don't think a +/- 3 dB randomness below that frequency will really matter, I don't think anyone could tell the difference between 5 hz at 120 dB and 7 hz at 118 dB.

There is probably a generic "correction value" to put in for below 20 hz for the mics, it won't be perfectly accurate but it's close enough IMO.

Actually if anyone has a dayton USB mic from cross spectrum, if they could tell me the calibration below 20 hz, that would be awesome, as I have one but just from parts express, and would rather get 2 or 3 peoples sub 20 calibrations and average them to get a good guess for mine, than just using it uncalibrated.
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post #60 of 170 Old 07-09-2014, 08:39 AM - Thread Starter
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I ended up grabbing the Umik-1 since it specifically says REW works with it, and it was only 10 bucks more expensive than the Dayton one.

The final coat of Duratex is going on right now... the Speakon connectors should arrive today, so I can get the boxes wired up. Now all I need are some massive drivers for the boxes to finish them off.

Incidentally, what do most of you do for mounting the drivers to the cabinet? The baffle that comes with the kits doesn't have any recessed cutouts for the driver, so I wonder if I should be figuring out how to recess the driver at all. Do you add extra foam other than the stuff that comes on the driver?

My Home Theater Build: The Vortex Theater Build
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