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-   -   Calling Bassheads...help please! (http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1592146-calling-bassheads-help-please.html)

Fatshaft 07-05-2014 11:26 AM

Calling Bassheads...help please!
 
Hello, my name is Fatshaft and I’m a bassaholic!
I cannot get enough bass and so I need more to be fulfilled. I’m asking for your ideas/opinions but more so asking fellow bassheads on ideas of how I can better fulfill my needs.

First of all…I know some will think or think I’m completely crazy and so I completely accept this. I know I have a problem and I know my only fix is having more bass!
Please keep in mind that I can already hit 130DB’s 80HZ down…but I need more!
I presently have 4x FTW21’s and 4x SI18’s
I’m thinking of 2 options right now:
1. Re-do all my cabs and go ported to a tune of around 13HZ-15HZ. I’m on cement floor and so the very low frequencies I cannot feel but my upstairs shakes like crazy!
I know I can easily fulfill the low end with some Crowsons transducers and be done. So adding the Crowsons and going ported I can gain lots in the 13-80HZ and I also realize that my cabs would probably be at least 2 to 4 times as big as my sealed that I presently have now!
This option will limit my output in the single digits and also save my poor house from further abuse! This is probably a good thing.
The option of going ported will take up a lot more space due to cabs getting a lot bigger and brings me to my 2nd option.


2. I’m just thinking of just adding 4x HS24’s and add those to the back. I would then move 2 of the 21’s to the front with a final layout being…
Back of room:
4x HS24’s, 4x SI18’s and 2x FTW21’s
Front of room:
2x FTW21’s
Now with that many subs I would definitely want them all sealed so I would gain all frequencies across the board.

So with that said I’m just wondering if:
I’m f**ken nuts to think of adding more bass
If I need to seek professional help
If you guys truly get what I’m saying and think it’s a f**ken good idea.


Maybe I’m not thinking of other simpler options?
Thanks for listening and appreciate all your inputs.

chalugadp 07-05-2014 11:35 AM

Yeah your freakin nuts but your not hurting anyone so go for it. Need people with more knowledge then me for upgrade plan.[emoji33]

gpmbc 07-05-2014 11:53 AM

Since you're not really feeling the ultra low frequencies anyways, the ported/tranducer route is a good one. I'm leaning more towards this because you already have a slew of sealed subs and it's still not enough and you've got a lot of displacement. Popalock as you know has 16) 18s and still looking for more. Honestly the first step I'd take is to add transducers. If you went with the ported option, transducers were a necessary part of your equation anyhow. And...adding more subs, you're not guaranteed to as to the results if it will be enough for you. Adding transducers you can take the room out of the equation and for sure will feel things you're not currently. Btw in my previous dedicated sealed room, my sealed subs were awesome and it's that feel that I missed in my now open living room that caused me to venture to transducers. Just didn't want you to think I was biased to one particular alignment.

tential 07-05-2014 12:03 PM

You're not crazy.

In fact, I think you're right, you do need more bass.

If you have the means, and the technology is there, go for it.

notnyt 07-05-2014 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fatshaft (Post 25510082)
Hello, my name is Fatshaft and I’m a bassaholic!
I cannot get enough bass and so I need more to be fulfilled. I’m asking for your ideas/opinions but more so asking fellow bassheads on ideas of how I can better fulfill my needs.

First of all…I know some will think or think I’m completely crazy and so I completely accept this. I know I have a problem and I know my only fix is having more bass!
Please keep in mind that I can already hit 130DB’s 80HZ down…but I need more!
I presently have 4x FTW21’s and 4x SI18’s
I’m thinking of 2 options right now:
1. Re-do all my cabs and go ported to a tune of around 13HZ-15HZ. I’m on cement floor and so the very low frequencies I cannot feel but my upstairs shakes like crazy!
I know I can easily fulfill the low end with some Crowsons transducers and be done. So adding the Crowsons and going ported I can gain lots in the 13-80HZ and I also realize that my cabs would probably be at least 2 to 4 times as big as my sealed that I presently have now!
This option will limit my output in the single digits and also save my poor house from further abuse! This is probably a good thing.
The option of going ported will take up a lot more space due to cabs getting a lot bigger and brings me to my 2nd option.


2. I’m just thinking of just adding 4x HS24’s and add those to the back. I would then move 2 of the 21’s to the front with a final layout being…
Back of room:
4x HS24’s, 4x SI18’s and 2x FTW21’s
Front of room:
2x FTW21’s
Now with that many subs I would definitely want them all sealed so I would gain all frequencies across the board.

So with that said I’m just wondering if:
I’m f**ken nuts to think of adding more bass
If I need to seek professional help
If you guys truly get what I’m saying and think it’s a f**ken good idea.


Maybe I’m not thinking of other simpler options?
Thanks for listening and appreciate all your inputs.

Install Crowsons. These are needed since you're on cement. Nothing else you do will give you enough tactile feel. Ask me how I know ;)

If that isn't enough, redo your enclosures to 15hz ported.

</thread> ;)

AV Science Sales 5 07-05-2014 02:02 PM

Place all seating on a platform that is on rubber isolation pads. Test using current subwoofer system.

popalock 07-05-2014 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notnyt (Post 25511786)
Install Crowsons. These are needed since you're on cement. Nothing else you do will give you enough tactile feel. Ask me how I know ;)

If that isn't enough, redo your enclosures to 15hz ported.

</thread> ;)

This...^

Quote:

Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 (Post 25512730)
Place all seating on a platform that is on rubber isolation pads. Test using current subwoofer system.

Plus this...^

One other suggestion...v

Near-field...

I know you have subs behind you, but I forget what your space looks like...are you running any of them near-field? Put a 21 directly into your back and that will have more tactical impact than adding 8 SI24's across your front stage. That, coupled with a few transducers on a riser, and you would no longer be able to rely on your sense of vision when watching the typical bass demo scenes...

:D

The buttkicker LFE:

Or, if your feeling froggy... how about you be the Guinea pig on the Clark Synthesis Platinum transducer for us and report back on your findings.

I wish I could find a direct comparison of the Buttkicker LFE bigdog and the Clark Platinum, but I'm coming up dry. I mean, how do we know what 932lb-ft of force means in relation to what the buttkicker is capable of in the above video...

Archaea, in typical Archaea awesomeness, did a nice little video supplement to his elaborate testing of the lower cost units...


popalock 07-05-2014 03:42 PM

On the other hand... Quad 24's, just because, always sounds epic!

tential 07-05-2014 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by popalock (Post 25514170)
On the other hand... Quad 24's, just because, always sounds epic!

Can't wait for his new rap album to drop as well.
Labelled "Sitting on 24s......"

MemX 07-05-2014 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by popalock (Post 25514170)
On the other hand... Quad 24's, just because, always sounds epic!

+1 :D



Also, I'm not sure what your signal chain is? but it could be worth reviewing it to see if you can lower the roll-off point and gain additional output in the single digit area :)

Deckard97 07-05-2014 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fatshaft (Post 25510082)
Hello, my name is Fatshaft and I’m a bassaholic!
I cannot get enough bass and so I need more to be fulfilled. I’m asking for your ideas/opinions but more so asking fellow bassheads on ideas of how I can better fulfill my needs.

First of all…I know some will think or think I’m completely crazy and so I completely accept this. I know I have a problem and I know my only fix is having more bass!
Please keep in mind that I can already hit 130DB’s 80HZ down…but I need more!
I presently have 4x FTW21’s and 4x SI18’s
I’m thinking of 2 options right now:
1. Re-do all my cabs and go ported to a tune of around 13HZ-15HZ. I’m on cement floor and so the very low frequencies I cannot feel but my upstairs shakes like crazy!
I know I can easily fulfill the low end with some Crowsons transducers and be done. So adding the Crowsons and going ported I can gain lots in the 13-80HZ and I also realize that my cabs would probably be at least 2 to 4 times as big as my sealed that I presently have now!
This option will limit my output in the single digits and also save my poor house from further abuse! This is probably a good thing.
The option of going ported will take up a lot more space due to cabs getting a lot bigger and brings me to my 2nd option.


2. I’m just thinking of just adding 4x HS24’s and add those to the back. I would then move 2 of the 21’s to the front with a final layout being…
Back of room:
4x HS24’s, 4x SI18’s and 2x FTW21’s
Front of room:
2x FTW21’s
Now with that many subs I would definitely want them all sealed so I would gain all frequencies across the board.

So with that said I’m just wondering if:
I’m f**ken nuts to think of adding more bass
If I need to seek professional help
If you guys truly get what I’m saying and think it’s a f**ken good idea.


Maybe I’m not thinking of other simpler options?
Thanks for listening and appreciate all your inputs.





Sup Homer!


I was a serious basshead throughout my 20's.....mostly car systems until I focused on Home Theater. I don't think you are nutz one bit...


But don't make the mistake I did.....130dbs is overkill and will cause you hearing loss/tinnitus.


When you think about stepping up to around 140dbs....just think about this:


Picture yourself in a few years with a constant ringing in your ear (s ). No escape, just ringing....possibly for the rest of your life.


That should deter you from the bass addiction....


http://www.dangerousdecibels.org/edu...me-guidelines/

randyc1 07-05-2014 04:18 PM

Hey FS did you ever consider GJALLARHORN ?
How about 2 GJALLARHORN'S in the back and 2 24's in the front ?

WereWolf84 07-05-2014 04:58 PM

Another vote for quad HS24s, placing at each corner of your room

d_c 07-05-2014 05:38 PM

I would try in order til you are happy:
1) build a riser
2) move the si to near field
3) port the 21s
4) Crowsons

Or go Crowsons first if you have the money and save some time messing with experimenting.

A pint of beer in a glass jiggles on my floor like Archea's video of the bowl of water. I only have the two Gjallarhorns, but have a suspended wood floor.

N8DOGG 07-05-2014 10:12 PM

I'd say a couple G-horns. Cheaper than the 24's by a ton, you'll get insane output and put them nearfield and have some fun!

BassThatHz 07-06-2014 03:10 AM

Convert all 8 of your subs to ghorns. 4 corner loaded, the other 4 aimed directly at the back of your head at ear level; embrace the tinnitus.
Problem solved. ;)

blah450 07-06-2014 03:20 AM

a) build a proper riser if headroom in space....check performance
b) move subs to diff locations....check performance
c) add Crowsons...check performance
d) add more or different subs...check sanity before proceeding

fat...that riser can make a HUGE difference if on concrete with your area. And again so with the Crowsons.
If using Crowsons or other transducers, some of the effect will be lost if your feet are on a concrete floor during playback....the use of a riser maximizes your transducer investment.
Have fun, sir!

Martycool007 07-06-2014 03:48 AM

I agree that adding a riser would likely make a huge difference. Ask anyone who has gone from a setup in a home with a crawl space to a home with a concrete foundation. I did this recently and miss my old theater room like crazy. Heck, in my old room I only had two full sized MartySubs, now I have four full sized MarfySubs and yet it feels so inferior to my last setup in a room with a crawl space!

So building a riser would, in my opinion, put a nice grin on your face every time you watch a movie! It would also be much cheaper than buying more subs, and being that you can already hit 130db, would add so much more to the experience than adding more subs!

You might consider building some horn subs into the riser, and/or making it into a bass trap.

popalock 07-06-2014 07:45 AM

Do a DIY transducer...

4 of these connected to a riser looks really fun...


Fatshaft 07-06-2014 08:32 AM

Thanks guys...
 
First, thank you all for the suggestions/tips/replies to my sickness.
Some think I'm crazy and some think I need help. That's cool. http://www.avsforum.com/forum/images...t_thumbsup.png

Riser solution:
I already have a riser built, unfortunately the riser is behind the first row http://www.avsforum.com/forum/images...thumbsdown.png
The first row is on the foundation.

GHorn:
mmmmmmmm.......
This could work for me...what about using 2 of the SI18's for building 2 Ghorns, Would that workhttp://www.avsforum.com/forum/images...t_question.png

Transducers:
lol pops for the videos, thanks for sharing those vids. When you look at those you sort of see how crazy oneself is.
I believe this is probably the easiest and simplest solution for my situation right now.
I agree with gpmpc and Notnyt! Especially the fact that Notnyt did this and loves his solution. I also realize he went from sealed to ported and that helped too. Something I considered but am discouraged of re-doing all the cabs.

I'm think just get the crowsons and once I play and feel that for a while.
If I need more I can always go from all sealed to maybe all ported or as stated above taking 2 sealed 18's and build 2 Ghorns.

Tinnitus concerns.
I'm not worried about it but I am careful about it too.
I predict that BTH and others listens to WAY higher levels then I do!
Just because I can hit 130+db (BASS) does not mean I ALWAYS listen to that level.
The only MOVIE that I had ringing in my ears was Pacific Rim.
If I'm crazy about not worrying about so be it...

Once again thank you all kindly for your responses to my sickness.

Erich H 07-06-2014 09:54 AM

You're probably just going to waste your time/money with more subs if you're sitting on concrete and surrounded by concrete. I gave up a long time ago trying to get that 'feeling' in my basement. Actually it made me pretty much give up on my entire home theater room. I had a wall of subs in the front, 4 more 10's in bass bins, ported 15's in the back, ported 12's along the sides, changing their locations and moving things around all the time. It just ruined the whole experience and started to drive me nuts, so I had to give up before I went insane.

I'm not rich enough for the expensive transducers, so I tried those Aurasound bass shakers and it helped. But by that point I had started using the room for testing compression drivers and it's never been used for home theater since. :(

If your upstairs is vibrating like an earthquake, but you still aren't feeling it enough downstairs, with four 21's and four 18's, listen to the transducer guys.

gpmbc 07-06-2014 10:13 AM

I'll be interested in your solution fatshaft. Also, to answer your question, the SI 18 won't work in a G horn. At this time the only drivers are the LMS and the UXL 18.

MKtheater 07-06-2014 10:49 AM

You have the output and make sure your signal chain is not rolling off. You can add a LT circuit to boost the low end only and if that does no work transducers as said above. Adding louder bass to a system that is not used to full potential already is only going to result in more unused potential. The shake you are lacking is from the concrete or signal chain rolloff.

Fatshaft 07-06-2014 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erich H (Post 25527658)
You're probably just going to waste your time/money with more subs if you're sitting on concrete and surrounded by concrete. I gave up a long time ago trying to get that 'feeling' in my basement. Actually it made me pretty much give up on my entire home theater room. I had a wall of subs in the front, 4 more 10's in bass bins, ported 15's in the back, ported 12's along the sides, changing their locations and moving things around all the time. It just ruined the whole experience and started to drive me nuts, so I had to give up before I went insane.

I completely understand and feel what you've gone through...I'm also saying that YOU understand what I'm going through!

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpmbc (Post 25528122)
I'll be interested in your solution fatshaft. Also, to answer your question, the SI 18 won't work in a G horn. At this time the only drivers are the LMS and the UXL 18.

thanks for letting me know re the SI18's not being able to do Ghorns with them.
I'm prob just gone try a transducer 1st and also think this should be enough. Thank you kindly

Quote:

Originally Posted by MKtheater (Post 25529042)
You have the output and make sure your signal chain is not rolling off. You can add a LT circuit to boost the low end only and if that does no work transducers as said above. Adding louder bass to a system that is not used to full potential already is only going to result in more unused potential. The shake you are lacking is from the concrete or signal chain rolloff.

MK,
My signal chain rolloff starts around 6HZ...past measurements I got a 134.5DB at 6.5HZ.

Don't get me wrong...I'm still shaking when example:
the chopper scene in Lone Survivor, trust me my chair (where I'm sitting) is shaking pretty dam good.
Sitting on the sofa upstairs during the same scene is an unbelievable difference.
I swear to you that standing upstairs while the chopper scene goes, you cannot focus whatever would be playing on the tv upstairs.

Now with the SI's not being able to do Ghorns, I'm wondering if changing 2 of my 21's to ported could help a little.
To be clear, my room sweeps lacks from 13 to 26hz and then get ridiculous boost at 30hz, 80hz and 8-10hz.
I'm craving right now the 13-26hz region.

I really need to get to Notnyt's place (closest to me) and get a feel for his system. I'm also convinced if I go that it'll cost me a pretty good amount on wood and Duratex :D (a tranducer for sure)

Regards,

sslv2pwned 07-06-2014 11:50 AM

What is the shortest a riser can be and still be effective?

sslv2pwned 07-06-2014 12:56 PM

I ask about the shortest height of a riser because I'm wondering why Fatshaft can't add one to his front row.

I have the same issue. My house is on a slab. Plus I have ceramic tile. I have 4 18" sealed subs, driven by two inuke 6000 DSP's. But it's not enough. The volume is perfectly fine. It's the pressure hitting my chest and even more it's the tactical feel I'm missing. During a movie my walls can be shaking and things can be falling off shelves, but I don't feel it.

Like suggested in this thread I have thought about a riser. But it would have to be short, maybe 4", as my system is in my living room. Would not this work for you, Fatshaft?

BassThatHz 07-06-2014 06:14 PM

1 Attachment(s)
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1404695631

javanpohl 07-07-2014 04:05 PM

Why is it that I can go into a club blasting bass music, probably at 35hz-ish, and feel it pounding in my chest but we can't feel the same in our massively over bassed home theaters? Is mid-bass just all that more tactile?

Viruscwu 07-07-2014 05:13 PM

Subscribed!

I'm in a similar predicament, just with less subs. I have just under 4,000cft surrounded by concrete with 4 SI 18's. While my upstairs shakes violently I could put my kids to sleep in the theater room.

Would building a sub-floor in the basement give the same action experienced upstairs?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sslv2pwned (Post 25532138)
I ask about the shortest height of a riser because I'm wondering why Fatshaft can't add one to his front row...Like suggested in this thread I have thought about a riser. But it would have to be short, maybe 4", as my system is in my living room. Would not this work for you, Fatshaft?

I'm also curious about this option.

Fatshaft 07-07-2014 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sslv2pwned (Post 25532138)
I ask about the shortest height of a riser because I'm wondering why Fatshaft can't add one to his front row.

I have the same issue. My house is on a slab. Plus I have ceramic tile. I have 4 18" sealed subs, driven by two inuke 6000 DSP's. But it's not enough. The volume is perfectly fine. It's the pressure hitting my chest and even more it's the tactical feel I'm missing. During a movie my walls can be shaking and things can be falling off shelves, but I don't feel it.

Like suggested in this thread I have thought about a riser. But it would have to be short, maybe 4", as my system is in my living room. Would not this work for you, Fatshaft?

I can't build another riser...
More details about my setup:
Front stage is 14' wide by 3.5' depth by 8" thick. (Completely sand filled)
Riser in the back is 14' wide by 5.5' depth by 11" thick (Completely sand filled)
Stage and Riser has a quantity of 3 tons of sand !!!

It would be completely useless for me to build another riser as the subs would not be on this additional riser.
Plus I would now be defeating the purpose of the back riser because there would be little difference between the first rows height and the second rows height.

I beleive my best bet is a 2 step process.
1. get the crosons and enjoy that for a while
2. take 2 sealed 21" cabs...burn them...and build to 13hz ported 30cuft cabs instead

Saw this in another thread that chalugadp posted and thought maybe i can make it fit somewhere in the back.
"2' wide by 4' high by 4' long. 6" high port going 38" back. Tuning is 13 hz."

This would help my 13-26hz range that I'm craving!

Thoughts?


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