DIY subwoofer FINAL decision! MARTY....? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 25 Old 07-07-2014, 08:19 AM - Thread Starter
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DIY subwoofer FINAL decision! MARTY....?

For the past few months I have been gathering information to finalize my system.


The key thing for me is performance and cost effective. I wanted to go the small way and bring the components over on the plane in coach check.... I can no longer do this. So now the VALUE is KEYYYYY, as I have to pay about TRIPPLE the price after shipping, taxes, duty etc. To keep price down I usually rather multiple subwoofers, but I think it may be cheaper to build one.


My listening space is large, with openings, tile floor, concrete walls, not great. I listen at reference levels but usually never pass 100 dB. Sound quality is VERY important, and midbass slam. I listen to ALL type of music but mainly ROCK. I watch a lot of movies that are demanding ie: Transformers/tron/ etc.


For my mains I will be going with Fusion10.
For center I will be using Quad4
Surrounds I am not certain. (probably VOLT10)


Subwoofer I am thinking MARTY. Not sure which one yet. If 2 is cheaper to build to gain more performance I may go that route. (thinking against as most say you should have 2 amps so you can calibrate each one separately.. If I could share a single amp, cost goes down a lot may make sense... Please help on this dilemma.)


Could someone chart out the different proven models for me, with the overall dimensions? From what I hear I was debating between the 2*2*4 and the 2*2*2... Kinda stuck here... As well what driver... I was thinking the SI D4? Maybe Dayton ultimax? What would the total cost be for the different models? How would they compare sound quality and output to say an SVS PB-Ultra?


If by chance there is a cheaper way of getting the results I need, please inform me.


When I return from the states, I am going to make the order for everything one time and start. I will show the full assembly with pics for each kit, and review and measure at the end, to hopefully helps others in a similar situation and for the fun of the hobby.


Thus far I would really like ALL you DIY and erich from DIYSOUND for the AMAZING assistance! You guys ROCK!
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post #2 of 25 Old 07-07-2014, 09:48 AM
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What was the reason they gave you for not being allowed to bring speakers in your checked luggage? Because they're magnets?



Both boxes have a single SI18 driver

2x2x2 box is yellow, 17 hz tune, 15 hz hpf, 2"x22"x47" port approx 7 cu ft

2x2x4 box is red, 14 hz tune, 14 hz hpf, 3"x22"x58" port approx 14 cu ft

both 1000 watts, good port velocities, and the excursion is just below max.

The big box has about 6 dB advantage below 18 hz, 2 dB between 18 and 22, and basically the same above 22 hz.

Since you will be paying a lot for shipping on drivers, the best gains for you will be by going large boxes. Wood is fairly cheap if you're buying locally and building the boxes yourself. For movies at least. For music both these subs will be identical, there's isn't really sub 20 stuff in music unless you're listening to electronic or dubstep.
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post #3 of 25 Old 07-07-2014, 10:29 AM
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I think you can EQ each channel of the Inukes separately. I only have one hooked up to mine so I'm not 100% sure though
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post #4 of 25 Old 07-07-2014, 10:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Bassment -> Yes basically there is a "chance" they will let me bring it over... But a good chance not... And I can not take the chance. Yes it is the magnets.


That graph looks great, seems VERY powerful. In room situation how much room gain should I get? Around +3 or +6? My longest wall is around 20 feet.


What are we looking at for cost? What amp would be the most cost effective and best performance. Keep in mind I live in a VERY hot country and think might make more sense to get a stronger amp so it does not work as hard... I wish for this sub to last YEARS. Also I would like it to have some EQ as my processor does not.


The SI 18" Should I get the D2 or D4 what's the difference? How much is that driver? I can't find it on parts express or DIYSOUND. It is the best driver for this application / price to performance ratio? If I wait a few months anything better coming to the table for cost effective drivers or now is a good time to pull the trigger?


The fusion10s will hang in with this subwoofer correct? Or will this subwoofer outclass the fusion10?


Yes I will build the cab here, what is the best wood for this application? Do you happen to know the weight of the two models you suggested?


Would you recommend the larger enclosure or smaller?


Thanks a lot for the help dude!! REALLY appreciate it!!
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post #5 of 25 Old 07-07-2014, 11:24 AM
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inuke 3000dsp would be great, easily powers 1000 watts rms per channel. They have beast fans designed for hot DJing gigs so it would cool in a hot environment no problem at all. The room gain in a 20 foot room will start around 30 hz, a perfectly sealed room is 12 dB per octave, not perfectly sealed I'd assume like 6 dB. So around 3-4 dB at 20 hz, +6 dB at 15 hz and + 12 dB at 7 hz. The D2 would be best for you with this amp I think, there is no difference other than impedance. As the amp is two channels, and can do a 2 ohm load, you can run one sub off each channel and get 1000 watts RMS each. You could just start with 1 sub if you want and get another in another year or whatever. This amp is perfect for two of them, but it's fine for only one too. The driver is 162 before shipping (at current pre-order price) I think they're available in a month or so. http://stereointegrity.com/index.php?id=57
You buy them direct from manufacturer. I think the Fusion 10's will go perfectly with one or two of these, they can go to around the same volume level.

What are your woodworking skills/ tools like? If you have a bit of experience I'd recommend the larger enclosure ( and if you have space in your room). The driver itself is 30 lbs. 2x2x2 probably like 80 lbs, 2x2x4 probably around 160 lbs.

Two subs will definitely be much better than one, if you can do it, as it will even out the frequency response.
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post #6 of 25 Old 07-07-2014, 11:41 AM
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SI 18" or Dayton HO in ported boxed. Bigger boxes are better from a performance perspective. But realistically you would be happy with anything ported between 15hz and 20hz that is 5 cubes or bigger.

You can either choose a pre designed box (like a marty) or you can design your own box. Lots of people would help you do that if you had a certain space requirement or form factor to consider or fit. If you do not I see no reason why you need to re-invent the wheel. DIY means DO IT YOURSELF. This will save you tons of money. If value is your goal then that is what you should do. Buy your wood locally, don't waste money shipping it in. You need to pay shipping for the drivers, but that is how life works. It's still a hell of a lot cheaper than buying a premade locally, and better too. Don't focus on the fact it costs you more to ship it's just a waste of time and anxiety.
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post #7 of 25 Old 07-07-2014, 02:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Bassment -> Thanks a lot for the info!!

Is there a 2000 or 1000 that would power the sub to it's full potential or it will require the 3000? I can not get a second one if I get this lol. My wife said I could build anyone I want. But once I told her the weight her and I won't lie myself kinda though about just how heavy that is... And maybe just staying with the martycube.. The 2*2*2.

Would the bigger marty require more power than the smaller one?

How will the 2*2*2 with the SI 18" D2 compare with the SVS PB ultra? In terms of both sound quality and output.

Would there be a sound quality difference between the 2*2*2 and 2*2*4?

What type of ply should I get for the enclosure? As well what thickness? I heard PL premium is the best calking, how much do I need? What other materials do I need?

Mfusick -> I cant agree more, if you can provide me with some feedback on the listed questions/concerns.

Thanks a lot for your help guys!
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post #8 of 25 Old 07-07-2014, 02:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Bassment & Mfusick -> Thanks a lot!!

Ok, just to make sure, there are no other cost effective drivers that will compete? Are there any for a bit more that will sound better and have more output? Will the dayton ultimax be a big upgrade over the SI 18" on it's release? Is SI coming out with a new woofer worth waiting for?

To confirm the cheapest amp to run the sub with DSP and best one for a hot environment is the Inuke 3000? The say inuke 1000 will not be sufficient, and worth saving some?

If there is not a more cost effective amp for this application, it almost makes sense to me to make 2 of the 2*2*2 marty, since it will only cost an extra $162 for the woofer and wood.... Would that make sense?

How would one of these stack up to the SVS PB ultra?

The total sum of the 2 subwoofers I think would be 162*2 + $280 +wood/calking/other material -> What other material do we require? Is PL premium the best?

Thanks guys!!
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post #9 of 25 Old 07-07-2014, 02:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Glitch.... Though it deleted the first post... Sorry.
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post #10 of 25 Old 07-07-2014, 02:34 PM
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I think it makes the most sense to make two 2x2x4 The boxes will basically be the same to build, the only difference is you have a couple longer pieces of wood. Wood is cheap. Also if you get 4x8's, you can do two cuts to make them into 2x4 pieces which will easily make 2x4 boxes. You would actually have less output below 22 hz with dual 2x2x2 than with a single 2x2x4.

I do not think there is a better value than the SI or the inuke 3000dsp.

Any wood glue is fine, I use gorilla. Other stuff you need is clamps and/or a brad nailer, jigsaw or router, what tools do you have currently?

A ported SI in either of these boxes smokes the PB13. PB13 only hits 110 dB at 20 hz, These hit between 113 and 115, as well as having much more output below 20 hz than the PB13. The SI sub has about 5 dB advantage above 20 hz too. So to sum it up, you'd need basically two PB13's to get the performance of a single SI.
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post #11 of 25 Old 07-07-2014, 03:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Bassment -> I have the best wife ever... She just said "get what you want, make sure the dog won't hit it over so you don't go crazy again" And yes for those wondering my speaker fell hard, and I though if I'm going to upgrade/replace, might as well make it worth it right? I think I've come to the right place!!

Ok back on point.
I think one of the problems for me is just the sheer size and mass of a 160 lbs 4*2*2 structure and now we are talking about 2 of them.... HAHAHAHA I mean I don't really pass 100 dB lol.. But I guess that extra extension down to 15hz would be nice, since it will be flatline.

Also the size, like when I move which I plan to in no more than 3 years, how do I move it? Well I guess I disassemble it? Maybe do the finish (stain, veneer or wood) when I do move? Room placement I guess wont matter hahahaha, so much volume anyways... Are they shielded? Will it matter? They will be place directly behind my TV.

I am leaning on the duel 2*2*4, The cost let me know I'm missing anything -> $162 times 2 = $324(woofers) + $280 (amp) = $610 + wood calking, w.e else... About say $750? That seems amazing lol... With the amp can I EQ each channel separately? Are you sure I should not get 2 cheaper models so each gets it own?

I have a circular saw, drill, maybe jigsaw, calking gun, tape, level, pencil? LOL... I may be able to borrow other stuff... I'm sure I can find it. Or I'll just rent it I guess...

Let me know if I'm missing anything. And please help me come to conclusions.

Thank you!
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post #12 of 25 Old 07-07-2014, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smittyfit View Post
To confirm the cheapest amp to run the sub with DSP and best one for a hot environment is the Inuke 3000? The say inuke 1000 will not be sufficient, and worth saving some?
Parts Express has a sale that ends (of course) today:
http://www.parts-express.com/Search....itesearch=true
I talked myself into the 3000. Overkill, but a sale is a sale, after all.
Yes, either will eq two separate channels.
Have fun.
And get something for your wife!
Michael
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Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #13 of 25 Old 07-07-2014, 04:11 PM - Thread Starter
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LastButNotLeast -> Thanks dude!!

For sure get the SI 18 D2 or D4?? I want to make sure best driver for the amp and configuration.

I'm thinking about buying all the kits and stuff on sale now, try and get someone to hold onto it for me till the SI comes in, that way I can ship all one time. I can not ship 2 separate orders here, waste of my money. I messaged Erich to see if he can. Also I said while we wait till the inuke comes in, he can use my equipment while it is in his possession.

Let me know on the D2/D4 option!

Thanks guys! Keep it coming!
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post #14 of 25 Old 07-07-2014, 04:20 PM
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You won't find much better driver for value than the Stereo Integrity 18". Other drivers might be good too, but none would be superior in either performance or have a much lower cost so I would not worry to much about either of those.

The Infinity 1260 is a really good budget driver too. But it's only 12" (and only costs $60) but you need about 2 to 4 of them to equal one SI-18" so dollar for dollar both are great, but the SI is just bigger so it makes better bass. It will go deeper too.

24" makes sense because sheets are like 4x8 (MDF is actually a tad bigger) so the dimensions work well without ton's of wasted wood. 24" x 24" by whatever tall is a popular option. 36" tall. 42" tall. 4 feet tall is kinda crazy IMO unless you are doing two drivers in the same cabinet.

You might like two boxes better that are half height though. It helps to spread drivers in two locations in most cases. You get more output and you get more even response.

Since you like "chest slam" you will want to go ported. Port them like 17hz-20hz is my recommendation.

If you need help with a box let me know. Boxes for those are easy to model in WINISD. You can get the program on their facebook page.
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post #15 of 25 Old 07-07-2014, 04:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Mfusick -> Bro, thanks a lot for the help!! Honestly, just amazing!!

100% I'm going with the SI drivers.
100% going with marty
100% going with 2 since additional cost is small.

The size, is hard for me... I mean my wife say she doesn't care if they are 4 feet tall.... But the though of having 2 of those in the house... I can't move a 160lbs box lol... But for 4 feet tall you can double the under 20hz output.... And if I have 2 of them... That is a lot of performance increase for almost $0 extra. Still a hard choice because just sooo massive...

Your recommendation seems very good though.... And I know you know your stuff inside and out... I do like the punchy sound, but extra extension is always good...

The 24" does seem to make sense so no wasted wood.... would take up 4 square tile on my floor... Which is exactly the width max it can be for both to be side by side behind the TV. (I can not have one else where) And this is why it doesnt really matter how tall they are.... And wifey don't mind... Hrmmmm... I kind of think I need to do 2 by 2 by 4....

This is a hard one to decide...

Could you map us out the difference in performance in the 24", 36", 42" and 48" and 60"?

Thanks a lot!!
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post #16 of 25 Old 07-07-2014, 04:38 PM
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A marty sub is just a name for a ported subwoofer box. A design from LTD02 I believe that was well accepted and caught on. You would either want to follow the plans for that, or just design your own. The marty box is rather well braced- so it's a tad trickier than a more simplistic rectangle or square with more simple bracing - but I can't say there is a really big difference. Any box of the same volume and port tune should sound about the same with the same driver.

But like I said no reason to re-invent the wheel.

have you seen the plans for the marty box design ? You might want to check that out. If you decide that is what you want you don't need to design anything. Just cut the wood and put it together per the instructions. There is even a video how to do it.
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post #17 of 25 Old 07-07-2014, 04:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Mfusick -> Sounds good to me!

I'm just going to build the 2*2*2, or 2*2*4
Most likely take advantage of being "allowed" to have the bigger one... Only makes sense right lol.. Either way normal people are going to say its big... Now they can say it's HUGE

I love the design because it's proven, it looks kinda easy to make, has great extension and output. The 4 foot one will destroy an SVS ultra... I can't go wrong...

Conclusion, def. getting 2 SI 18 but need to know if the D4 or D2 is best with the Inuke3000 DSP.

60% chance 2by2by4 and 20% 2by2by2 and 20% chance something crazy... Like... Can you map this out? I don't know how it this stuff works...

1. = 2 SI in 1 box. Tuned to 15hz. Size no matter
2. = 2 SI in 1 box. Tuned to 18hz. Size no bigger than 6 cubic feet? Or smaller?
3. = 2 SI in 1 box. Tuned to 10hz. Size no matter

Thanks a lot!!
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post #18 of 25 Old 07-07-2014, 04:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Mfusick -> Also don't hesitate to jump in on some suggestions or branch off ideas.
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post #19 of 25 Old 07-07-2014, 04:57 PM
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4 foot by 2 foot by 2 foot is a lot of volume- but that length allows you to make a nice long port too. But that is about 10 cube box after port and braces and driver probably. Might be a tad big.

You can use this tool to figure out volume ? ( or do math lol )

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...me-calculator/

24" is not tall enough. 48" too tall. I would go in between. 36" ? That might be just right. You have the extra wood for braces. That should get you a nice result. 48" is tall and 13 cubes is big for a single driver IMO. Would make more sense if you put two drivers in each cab.

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post #20 of 25 Old 07-07-2014, 05:03 PM - Thread Starter
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"What was the reason they gave you for not being allowed to bring speakers in your checked luggage? Because they're magnets?



Both boxes have a single SI18 driver

2x2x2 box is yellow, 17 hz tune, 15 hz hpf, 2"x22"x47" port approx 7 cu ft

2x2x4 box is red, 14 hz tune, 14 hz hpf, 3"x22"x58" port approx 14 cu ft

both 1000 watts, good port velocities, and the excursion is just below max.

The big box has about 6 dB advantage below 18 hz, 2 dB between 18 and 22, and basically the same above 22 hz.

Since you will be paying a lot for shipping on drivers, the best gains for you will be by going large boxes. Wood is fairly cheap if you're buying locally and building the boxes yourself. For movies at least. For music both these subs will be identical, there's isn't really sub 20 stuff in music unless you're listening to electronic or dubstep."

The 2x2x2 box there looks pretty awesome.. And the 2x2x4 is real serious too.. But can u chart out the 36" for me, so I can see how it compares, or will it just be straight in the middle?

Thanks a lot!
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post #21 of 25 Old 07-07-2014, 05:04 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't know how to quote ppl lol.. That was from above from Bassment
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post #22 of 25 Old 07-07-2014, 07:08 PM
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Keep in mind that you could always build a larger or smaller box in the future. Both size boxes have similar overall performance, you're only chasing a few dB difference between the two. Both will be night and day different than what you have now. Get the drivers, get the amp, and build the box that fits your room the best.
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post #23 of 25 Old 07-08-2014, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
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I don't know how to quote ppl lol.. That was from above from Bassment
Click quote button.
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post #24 of 25 Old 07-08-2014, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
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Bassment -> Thanks a lot for the info!!

Is there a 2000 or 1000 that would power the sub to it's full potential or it will require the 3000? I can not get a second one if I get this lol. My wife said I could build anyone I want. But once I told her the weight her and I won't lie myself kinda though about just how heavy that is... And maybe just staying with the martycube.. The 2*2*2.

Would the bigger marty require more power than the smaller one?

How will the 2*2*2 with the SI 18" D2 compare with the SVS PB ultra? In terms of both sound quality and output.

Would there be a sound quality difference between the 2*2*2 and 2*2*4?

What type of ply should I get for the enclosure? As well what thickness? I heard PL premium is the best calking, how much do I need? What other materials do I need?

Mfusick -> I cant agree more, if you can provide me with some feedback on the listed questions/concerns.

Thanks a lot for your help guys!
There is not a good value amp that would do a single SI, other than an inuke 1000, but I think that is a bit underpowered, and it's not good value compared to the inuke 3000. Sound quality for bass is identical as long as you're not distorting, so the 2x2x2 and 2x2x4 subs will sound identical, other than the 2x2x4 going a bit lower in hz. Not sure about ply, I always build with MDF, depends what you have available. Ply might be better than MDF as it is much lighter. Check local lumber yards and see their best price, I think most wood will be fine.

In regards to your last post, you're right a 2x2x3 will fall right in the middle of the chart. I think it is pointless for 2x2x3, as the 4 foot length gives a better dimension for cutting 4x8 sheets so there isn't wasted wood. Not sure what your living room layout is like, but if you made it 2 high by 2 deep by 4 wide, you could use it as a speaker stand for your fusion 10's if you can fit it on the front. It will also look cool

Don't worry too much about weight, you're only gonna have to move them like once or twice. Just ask a buddy or two to help you. I find large subs are not too bad to carry with just two people, unless it's like a winding staircase or something. You can also carry the cabinet into your room and then mount the driver in right there. and remove the driver if you're moving if it's too heavy to move. 160 lbs really isn't that heavy though. Don't sweat the box designs too much they are all quite similar and you will only notice the difference in bass movies. You don't have to worry about your dog knocking them over though :P

The marty sub you keep referring to is a specific ported sub design LTD02 did, that has a specific cut sheet you can follow, these subs we're talking about aren't "marty subs" they're just ported subwoofers.

In regards to two drivers in one cabinet, you could do that, but it defeats the purpose of having two subs - being able to place them in different spots in the room to smooth the frequency response.
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post #25 of 25 Old 07-10-2014, 04:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Bassment -> Thanks a lot! I'm going to make a thread now regarding cutout options/ variations.


I do like the idea of the speaker stands.... However, small problem that my listening wall is kinda of narrow with a door on the right side. I only have about 5 maybe 6 feet.
That being said, no matter what I will be making a TV stand as well. But I'm not sure if I can fit the marty there to be used as stands.


I was thinking pulling my TV from the wall 2.5 feet. Placing both full marty side by side on the back wall behind the TV. Just worried my TV might get blown over by some bass scene lol...


Let me know your thoughts. As of now I have my TV pulled out from the wall 2 feet to fit my single SVS subwoofer there. This space is dead anyways, and my TV is small and im kinda blind so it needs to be forward anyways.... Also wifey say I can build whatever I want. This is why I'm thinking the 2x2x4(high) is the best option for this situation.


Let me know some ideas. I'm making another post now to accelerate the feedback.


Thank you ALL!
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