"Modified" LilWrecker Build - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 15 Old 07-09-2014, 01:03 AM - Thread Starter
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"Modified" LilWrecker Build

Hi Everyone,

After reading all of the reviews of LilMike's LilWrecker I decided I needed to build one for my family room but I would need to make it "blend in" with the furniture a little better to get my wife's approval. The plan was to make it the base of a new entertainment center like this:

ent_center.jpg

This would require re-folding the horn. I tried to keep my "S" and "L" parameters as close as possible to the LilWrecker's and the minor changes made almost no difference in HornResp. Here is the simulated frequency response (pink is my modified design, grey is the standard LilWrecker):

Hornresp.jpg

My re-folded design ended up looking like this (the notch in the center is to allow me to put our center channel speaker directly under the TV):

tapped_horn_2.jpg

So... I built it over the last few weeks. I used Baltic Pirch Plywood (mostly 1/2" thick, a few panels 3/4" thick) and lots of PL Premium. Here are all of the pictures I have (I really meant to take more but I was very excited to get it finished):

20140624_160424.jpg 20140626_103006.jpg 20140626_103021.jpg 20140703_114301.jpg 20140703_114334.jpg 20140703_114346.jpg 20140703_114404.jpg 20140703_114415.jpg 20140708_205121.jpg

The last picture shows the current status/location (standing up in the middle of the garage). I installed the Alpine SWS-15D4 and hooked up the iNuke 3000DSP and so far have been very disappointed with the performance. I have tried wiring the driver in series and parallel (8 and 2 ohms) and it doesn't seem to make much difference (I don't think amp power is the issue). I have a 20hz high-pass filter and 100hz low-pass filter set up on the iNuke and I currently have the gain (in the x-over menu) set at +6dB.

I can get quite a bit of excursion from the driver, it just doesn't seem to translate to very much sound. I feel like my old 100W Infinity 12" sub that is currently in the family room is louder and cleaner sounding. I'm hoping this is due to it's placement in the garage but it's hard to imagine that would have such a huge effect. My next step is to move it into the family room (just need to get a friend or two over to help me) to see if that helps. I also ordered a UMIK-1 that should be here sometime this week so I can get real measurments.

I guess I'm posting to see if anyone has any ideas of what could be causing my disappointing performance. Settings in the Amp? Driver wiring? Something obviously wrong in the cabinet design/build (I really don't think I have any leaks but I am planning to check again more thoroughly). Also, please let me know if there is a specific test I can do to help figure out the problem (once the UMIK-1 arrives) please let me know. I really appreciate any help you guys can give me.

Thanks,

Mickey

P.S. - I'm sure I left out some details so please don't hesitate to ask any questions you may have. Thanks!
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post #2 of 15 Old 07-09-2014, 06:52 AM
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Yeah I would expect that to just completely blow a 100w 12" out of the water. Nice woodworking, the box looks awesome.

If the woofers moving, I don't see how it's possible to not be blasting, unless you're running like 10 hz tones or something.

Your inuke volume is max? Your receiver LFE output is above 0 dB? I'm not sure about that +6dB gain, you shouldn't need that.
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post #3 of 15 Old 07-09-2014, 09:03 AM
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That is some incredible diy woodworking! Would it be possible to run it off the plate amp in the 12" to eliminate the amp as a variable?

I have no experience with horns.....but I don't think I've seen a design that didn't have expansion in the chamber in front of the driver. It looks like the first section is actually wider at the beginning but that may be an illusion of the photo. I always thought a horn started very small and grew all the way to the mouth.
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post #4 of 15 Old 07-09-2014, 09:33 AM
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Interesting fold concept.

Without SPL and impedance measurements, it is tough to say what is really going on.

As I folded it, the LilWrecker is an Akabak only model, it is too complex for HornResp. The HornResp model is close, but is only an approximation. For clarification, the LilWrecker does have a negative flare rate from S1 to S3, then expands through S4 and S5. The actual fold has two flare rates from S3 to S4, and a third from S4 to S5.
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post #5 of 15 Old 07-09-2014, 10:35 AM
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Very nice work.

Im gonna bet this is not your first time make sawdust: )
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post #6 of 15 Old 07-09-2014, 10:48 AM
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very nice. I like the refold.

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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post #7 of 15 Old 07-09-2014, 06:48 PM
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A lot of internal volume is consumed by bracing. Was that accounted for?

There are two rather long sections. Corners have chamfers but maybe some unwanted interenal resonance below 100hz?
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post #8 of 15 Old 07-12-2014, 11:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi guys,

I'm sorry it has taken me so long to get back on here. I appreciate your help with giving me things to check for potential problems. Fortunately, I have proven to myself (or at least convinced myself) that the garage is the main culprit. I took my little current subwoofer into the garage, planning to run the horn off the plate amp but I tried hooking it up first to see how it sounded in the garage (right next to the horn). It was quite a bit worse than usual which I took as a good sign.

The next day, the UMIK-1 showed up and I took some quick measurements. The horn did over 105dB at 20hz and it can definitely go higher. I wish I would have had more time to see how high it could go but it was late and I wanted to get started on sanding and finishing so the driver is back out now. Of course I'll get more measurements once it is finished and moved into the house. I guess something about the garage just doesn't sound right to my ears (maybe it's the toolboxes rattling).

Anyway, here is where I am at right now:

20140712_223745.jpg

This is just flat black latex paint. I will be rolling on Duratex next. I appreciate all of the compliments on the woodworking. I cheated a little bit because I have a small CNC Router that I used for the baffle, small braces, and the windows in the big braces. I have really enjoyed this project and I'm very excited to get it finished up and installed.

Thanks,

Mickey
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post #9 of 15 Old 08-05-2014, 04:58 PM
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Hey Mickey,

Any updates??
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post #10 of 15 Old 08-06-2014, 01:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Ah, yes. Again, I wish I would have thought to get more pictures during the process but here is what I have. I built the steel "leg" pieces:

20140714_131947.jpg

While those pieces were at the powdercoater I rolled Duratex on the cabinet. This picture kind of shows the texture:

20140720_180012.jpg

And here is where it's at right now:

20140720_175912.jpg

It does sound much better in the living room than it did in the garage and it's much louder and cleaner sounding than my old sub. A lot of people use the word "effortless" to describe the bass from these horns and I really think that is the best way to describe it. I'm very happy with it. Great job on the design, LilMike!

It did take quite a bit of equalization to smooth out thr response but I believe that is due to my fairly difficult room (it's basically one big space with the kitchen and dining room with openings to the rest of the house) and the less than optimal placement of the sub (which I can't really move since it doubles as the TV stand).

Next, I need to build a rack for the electronics which we are going to put on the left side of the TV where the lamp is now. After that, I am planning to build some DIYSoundGroup Fusion-10 Pure's for left and right and, eventually, a Fusion-8 Alchemy Center to go under the TV. Once the Pure's are done I will spend a little more time with REW to work on the smoothing out the crossover area that is giving me the most trouble now.

Does anyone have any ideas for wife-friendly (probably DIY) room treatments/bass traps? I think that would help a lot.

Thanks,

Mickey
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post #11 of 15 Old 08-06-2014, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moswald80 View Post
Ah, yes. Again, I wish I would have thought to get more pictures during the process but here is what I have. I built the steel "leg" pieces:

Attachment 199001

While those pieces were at the powdercoater I rolled Duratex on the cabinet. This picture kind of shows the texture:

Attachment 199009

And here is where it's at right now:

Attachment 198993

It does sound much better in the living room than it did in the garage and it's much louder and cleaner sounding than my old sub. A lot of people use the word "effortless" to describe the bass from these horns and I really think that is the best way to describe it. I'm very happy with it. Great job on the design, LilMike!

It did take quite a bit of equalization to smooth out thr response but I believe that is due to my fairly difficult room (it's basically one big space with the kitchen and dining room with openings to the rest of the house) and the less than optimal placement of the sub (which I can't really move since it doubles as the TV stand).

Next, I need to build a rack for the electronics which we are going to put on the left side of the TV where the lamp is now. After that, I am planning to build some DIYSoundGroup Fusion-10 Pure's for left and right and, eventually, a Fusion-8 Alchemy Center to go under the TV. Once the Pure's are done I will spend a little more time with REW to work on the smoothing out the crossover area that is giving me the most trouble now.

Does anyone have any ideas for wife-friendly (probably DIY) room treatments/bass traps? I think that would help a lot.

Thanks,

Mickey
Wow, that looks awesome man! Total stealth build.....I've never seen such a well executed WAF horn build of this caliber, well done! For stealth diy acoustic treatments, start here: DIY Custom-Printed Movie Poster Acoustic Panels - cheap!
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post #12 of 15 Old 08-06-2014, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moswald80 View Post

Does anyone have any ideas for wife-friendly (probably DIY) room treatments/bass traps? I think that would help a lot.
Great build here! Excellent job with the metalwork and integrating it all together.
For treatments, I used a company called ATSacoustics who does custom printing onto fabric and makes them into acoustic panels. We had a 4'x4' painting from a local artist that we wanted to make into a panel so we took it to a local guy who does museum photography stuff, had a very high quality photo done of the painting and put on a disc and then sent the file to ATS. They sent us samples of how it would look printed for us to ok and then went ahead and assembled a 4'x4' panel using 2" thick material similar to Corning 703. All in all, it wasn't exactly cheap, but it looks absolutely amazing, like the original painting, with the added benefit of being a room treatment. I'll have to post a photo of it later.
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post #13 of 15 Old 08-06-2014, 10:45 AM
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I'll have to post a photo of it later.
Here is the painting we had printed onto an acoustic panel:



****Also to note, the artist is a friend of ours who gave us full permission to do what we did. We actually only borrowed the original painting for a couple of weeks while it was being photographed.****
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post #14 of 15 Old 08-06-2014, 11:01 AM
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this is amazing work!!!

Im glad you shared this will us all / and i have enjoyed your thread alot.
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post #15 of 15 Old 08-06-2014, 10:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks guys! The painted acoustic panels are perfect. My wife has actually been talking about wanting to build a really big canvas (probably around 4'x4' like yours, dtsdig) to paint something for the biggest empty wall in the room. I don't know why I didn't think about this before.

Thank you,

Mickey
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