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post #1 of 61 Old 07-10-2014, 04:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Marty cutsheet options, charts, and SI driver

First off I would like to say LTD02 -> your a boss! On behalf of us ALL, thanks for sharing your amazing builds!! We ALL appreciate it! Also thanks to everyone else who has been helping me so much!! Amazing!


Ok here is where I am at so far.


I will be building fusion10s as mains and quad4 as a center. I just bought an inuke3000 DSP, and am going to be building 2 matching subwoofers.


I was going to go with the 2x2x2 BUT, my wife says build whatever you want.... So I'm leaning more towards the 2x2x4(high). I wanted to use my subs as speaker stands but do not think it will fit my listening area. Reason: my listening wall is short, like 5 or 6 feet, and a hallway door opens up, then wall for 3 feet, then another door, then wall for another few feet. Not ideal no. So by the time I put my 2 subwoofers and TV stand, I do not think it will fit....


What I was thinking.... As of now my TV is small, and so my TV stand is pushed forward 2 feet. This is where my current single SVS sits. I was thinking just standing the 2 beast up in place of the svs facing the back of my TV. I just hope these don't blow my TV over lol.. Also I was thinking worse case, turn the subwoofers outwards together. (subwoofers back to back facing oppositely.... One shoots to the left, one to the right, let me know if you understand) That way the drivers are not punishing my TV and TV stand.


A bit more info: I listen to ALL kinds of music, but love the kick in the chest feeling and FEELING the bass. Also I listen to reference levels sometimes, but not much at all, I rather a HIGH sound quality, and extended frequency range. I usually max the LFE out at around 100-110 dB but would like around 120 dB just incase, and if possible more. (we can all get a bit crazy on these forums... Remember I went from just getting the over night sensations to this... My room is large with openings, and some openings are permanent to the outdoors (I live in the Caribbean) also important as it is VERY hot here.


If other information is required please ask. If anyone could help chart out the designs and post the cutsheets that would be AMAZING!!


Also if you could tell me what SI driver would work best (I think there is a D2 and D4 or something like that) also if I should pre-order it.


THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH! Looking forward to building!! I will post and update ALL progress, and provide review at the end.


Cheers!!
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post #2 of 61 Old 07-10-2014, 05:34 AM
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Well if you have room for the full sized MartySub (2ft by 2ft by 4ft) that would be your best option as far as the enclosures for the SI 18HT go. You could use one of them facing the listening position with the TV on too, or run them vertically with the driver mounted on the front of the 4ft side somewhere in the middle. You could put two of them back to back behind the TV with the drivers firing into the corners, or you could use one, like I said, for the TV stand, and put the other one behind the couch. That would likely be your best option as having one in front & one in back would smooth out the response nicely and give a much better tactical sensation witty the other hoe being closer to the listening position behind the couch!

What are the overall dimensions of your room, and where are the speakers located at in relation of the walls? Could you possibly post a few pictures of the room and listening position? I was a bit confused by you saying that you only have 5ft to 6ft of space in between the L+R speakers, although, I may have misunderstood, but. If not, you will be in a seriously ****** place for sound quality if you are stuck in a 5ft to 6ft listening space!
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post #3 of 61 Old 07-10-2014, 06:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Martycool007 -> Thanks for the input bro!! I'm at work now, I can get pics later, but lets see if I can explain it better.


My room is 20 feet by about 14.


My TV is on the left side of the long wall that is 20 feet. This wall consist of 2 openings. One to a hallway, and one to a kitchen. So my listening space is 20 by 14, but I have a opening that is about 5 or 6 feet from the corner. Then a few more feet of wall and another opening, then a few more feet till the other corner of the room. So it is wall, opening, wall opening, wall.


The wall my TV and speakers are on have about 6 feet of clearance.


There is no room behind my couch.


The only spot is behind the TV, or by chance I can use them as stands for the speakers.


I'm definitely getting the SI, I just need to know what ohm version will work best with the inuke and the subwoofer design.


Let me know if this clarifies, if not I will further elaborate.


The 2 2x2x4 boxes facing the corners sounds most practical thus far. However, I would LOVE to use them as speaker stands.... Please continue the support/ideas/information.


Thanks a lot!
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post #4 of 61 Old 07-10-2014, 06:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Ever since the "update" I don't even know how to subscribe to my own thread.... So annoying...


My wife found it in 2 seconds.... What can I say, she the best! Let's me build these INSANELY AWESOMELY HUGE SUBWOOFERS, and can find the thread subscription button!! :P

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post #5 of 61 Old 07-10-2014, 08:03 AM
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you want the 2 ohm version.

Post pics of room and try to draw top-view layout that will help a lot.

I'm not sure where the 2x2x4 martysub cutsheet is, there are pictures on how to put it together here. MartySub Flatpacks

The port will be a bit different than the full martysub design, so you can tune to 14 hz instead of 17 hz.
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post #6 of 61 Old 07-10-2014, 08:21 AM
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4 feet is tall! How about 3 feet ?

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post #7 of 61 Old 07-10-2014, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
4 feet is tall! How about 3 feet ?
It's not really that tall... haha. It's not like there is a height limit I assume he has at least 7 foot ceilings.

4 is just a nice height so you don't have to waste MDF.
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post #8 of 61 Old 07-10-2014, 08:57 AM
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Looking fwd to watching your progress.. You got a good, let's go for attitude.

I see some nice lfe in your future
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post #9 of 61 Old 07-10-2014, 10:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Bassment -> 2 ohm version for the SI driver. Thank you!! Also this may sound VERY noob, is there a tutorial or video or something to show me how to connect the woofer to the amp?


I really like the look of the 2x2x2, but I think double the output down low would be amazing. So I think the 4x2x2 is the best way, specially since my wife does not mind the size.


If someone could please post me the cutout sheets for the 4x2x2 or "full marty" is that what they call it?


What would the difference be in a 17hz tuning and 14hz tuning? Would above the tuning point remain the same SPL and SQ, or will it change? I know tuning lower will provide a lot more output at tuning, but my concern is above, and the SQ.


Also is cedar ply good for the box? Or should I use MDF?


In terms of the slot port, that is the main reason I really want the cutouts. I'm worried the dimensions of the ports will be incorrect. So please if we can get the cutout it would be great. Worse case the link above does have some marty cutouts, just not the same size... But what I was thinking, could I use the same cutout as the 2x2x2 just change it to by 4? The slot would remain the same?


kevings -> I CANT WAIT!! hahahaha


Please help me out!


THANKS GUYS!!
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post #10 of 61 Old 07-10-2014, 10:26 AM
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once you get the stuff, you will see, it's very simple. Red is positive and Black is negative. If you're using iNuke, you will need speakon's.

It will go:

signal into inuke with RCA to XLR cable -> +1/-1 speakon out of inuke -> speakon terminal -> wire from +1/-1 to red/black on sub. It sounds more complicated than it is. You will need to do this for both channels.

The extra extention to 14 hz instead of 17 hz might drop 20 hz by like .25 dB and 17 hz by .4 dB or something, but you get like + 3 dB at 14 hz. The port can not be copied from the 2x2x2 it's different. A 17 hz port will be say 50 inches long, a 14 hz port will be 60 inches long ( just examples, not real numbers). I think chalugadp has the cut sheet, not sure.
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post #11 of 61 Old 07-10-2014, 10:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassment View Post
once you get the stuff, you will see, it's very simple. Red is positive and Black is negative. If you're using iNuke, you will need speakon's.

It will go:

signal into inuke with RCA to XLR cable -> +1/-1 speakon out of inuke -> speakon terminal -> wire from +1/-1 to red/black on sub. It sounds more complicated than it is. You will need to do this for both channels.

The extra extention to 14 hz instead of 17 hz might drop 20 hz by like .25 dB and 17 hz by .4 dB or something, but you get like + 3 dB at 14 hz. The port can not be copied from the 2x2x2 it's different. A 17 hz port will be say 50 inches long, a 14 hz port will be 60 inches long ( just examples, not real numbers). I think chalugadp has the cut sheet, not sure.
Bassment-> Thanks bro!!

Where do I buy speakon's? If they are small I will take them on my carry on.

It would seem to make sense to tune it to 14hz then...

Ok, I made up my mind.

I am going with 14hz tune, 2x2x4 box, Inuke 3000 DSP, 2 ohm SI woofer

PLEASE if someone could help me with the cutout sheet for a 14hz tuned 2x2x4 marty, that would be amazing!!

Worse case, I will go with the cutout posted above.

Thank you all!
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post #12 of 61 Old 07-10-2014, 11:32 AM
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I'm on a business trip now ( in the state if Indiana) but when I get to the airport later today, I will have a few hours to kill.

I will go ahead and try and post up the specs for the full size vertical Marty I did. You may also want to read through the thread in my signature. Lots of pics in there / might be helpful for you.
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post #13 of 61 Old 07-10-2014, 01:54 PM
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You can design your own box. I thought a marty was a certain design, so techincally if you are doing something else aren't you just making a ported box ?

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post #14 of 61 Old 07-10-2014, 02:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Mfusick -> I just don't want to mash it up... That's why I'm thinking about just copying someone elses design.

I would like it 2x2x4 tuned to 14hz though... Seems like it will give me more impact, specially since everyone say it will sound the same, might as well dig a bit deeper....

If someone could help me with the design it would be amazing.... If not, I will just go with the awesome looking one kevin did. Only difference it is tuned to 17hz instead of 14, pretty close.

Again if someone could please help me design a 2x2x4 tuned to 17hz that would be amazing.

Thanks guys!!
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post #15 of 61 Old 07-10-2014, 03:55 PM - Thread Starter
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AMAZING setup bro!! Your place ROCKS!!

Your subwoofer is the same dimensions I want!! Only thing is I just want a bit lower tuning point... Do you know how to change the tuning point to exactly 14hz?

Thanks for the help!
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post #16 of 61 Old 07-10-2014, 04:14 PM
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I can help when I'm not on ipad. Stay tuned.

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post #17 of 61 Old 07-10-2014, 05:31 PM
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If you build two of these with two SI 18" drivers you will be impressed. Your neighbors probably not so happy. Call this build the "island shaker"

Ok you sure you want 48" tall ?

I did a 42" tall one that would work well adopted for you:

The big one on the left:



You can see what it was like inside here:




Basically a big slot port with a 90 degree turn down the long side in the back. I used dual 15" but this modified for one driver would be ok too. Or even two 18".


I used 42" instead of 48" because it just seemed to work better. I used 3/4' MDF and I used PL premium construction adhesive in all the corners and glue in braces or quarter round trim, which you can see in all the corners. This helps give it extra strength and ensure it is air tight.

Something like this might work for you ?


Basically you want to design it so you can build it easy. 24" x 24" by 48" (or 42") That way you can make efficient use of the wood, but if you do 42" instead of 48" you use the left over for braces. So either will work good.

Make it 24" deep by 24" wide by 42" tall. That is about 14 cubic feet before the port and speaker.

If you make it 48" then it would be 16 feet cubic before port, bracing and speaker.

The ideal slot port would be 21.75" x 4" (24" wide minus 3/4" each side+ 3/4" brace down center) and run the full width and depth almost. This will determine what port tune you can get.

What driver do you want to use ? The SI 18" model ? I will assume that for now. You can swap drivers probably if you wanted anyways.

So let's take a look at tuning this bad boy:

14hz is too low IMO. You like chest slam, so you might like a 17hz tun better IMO, even a 20hz tune. Personally I would take 20hz > 14hz, but 17hz is nice comprimise. The higher tune will have more "chest slam" The lower tune will give you bragging rights online if you measure extension, but in reality it will be less impressive in real life. Especially on music. Music probably a 22hz tune would be better actually. Anyways... we can look at them all.


Here is sealed, ported at 14, ported at 17 and ported at 20hz:



Let's make it bigger to see easier:





It's really your choice on tuning but I find the higher tune is more impressive in real life. Don't be fooled chasing ultra low freqencies, because you give up something doing that. It's noticable IMO. and it's usually not worth it.

The challenge of 14hz is making the port long enough. That will be tough. I think 17hz might make more sense for you. 20hz or 22hz if you want maximum "chest slam". The lower the tune the less impressive the "chest slam" will be.

I used a 12.5 cubic foot box in my models ^ because after braces and driver and port it probably would be about that.

So basically your box is: 48" high, by 24 wide and 24" deep. You can cut the wood exactly like that and make either the depth or width slightly less or more because the wood takes 3/4" which is 1.5" total difference when you assemble it. Or you can do 25.5" x 24" too. You will need to compensate for the width of the material (.75") in determining outside size. But I will proceed with the simple assumption of 2x2x4 feet for simplicity.

A 2x2x4 foot box has 16 cubic foot of volume, and you will likely lose about 2-3 cubic feet of volume for the port, another .35 for the driver, and perhaps a little more for bracing. So I just used 12.5 cubic feet as a guess, but when you build the actual box you can get a more realistic volume using this:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...me-calculator/

I am close enough though. A little bit difference changes the tune about .5hz so hardly noticeable or important. Close enough is close enough usually.

For the 17hz tune your port would be 4" height by 21.75" wide by 57" Long. That would work perfect for you. 24" down from front to back. Then another 33" or so down the back. Longer ports = lower tune. You need to account for the opening of the port too, so you need to leave a reasonable amount of space to start the port inside. A 14" tune would be really long, you'd need to make it less height (which will increase chuffing and port turbulence noise) and it also can be more problematic for a 90 degree slot port turn. I think 17hz makes more sense because it will play louder, be more useful, and also more ideal to build.

If you raise the port tune a little higher you get something that would work better for music with more "chest slam" and you pick up a few db of SPL where you will hear and appreciate it even more.


Port volume of a 57" slot port with 4" height and 21.75" width would be this:

57" x 21.75" x 4" or 4.75' x 1.8125 x .3333 which is 2.869 cubic feet. That is the volume of your 17hz port so you need to subtract this from the total box volume. 16 - 2.89 = 13.13

Brace and driver will bring you close to our estimated 12.5 cubes in the model I think. Close enough is close enough

So you need 3/4" MDF (one sheet plus a little more probably, or use other wood for braces)
1 tube of PL premium construction adhesive.
I would use a brad nailer to build it- and use the brads (or screws) as a pernmanent type of clamp. You won't want to use clamps on a box this big. Get a helper, load the PL premium on heavy, fit it and nail or screw it to hold until the PL Premium hardens (24 hours in your climate). Then it's forever. That stuff is strong.

You want to make sure you have a 4" brace down the center of the port- this will help you make sure it's exactly 4" but also keep it strong. PL premium all sides that touch, and shoot brads from the sides, and also into the brace from inside the box. If you want to go back and add glue in 1/4 round or small mdf rips in the corners to make it extra strong and air tight you can do that too. It takes a very small amount of volume away from the box, but can accommodate for a less perfect and skilled construction technique. PL premium is good for filling gaps and very strong. Wood glue is ok, but not good enough for this monster box IMO.


If you build two of these with two SI 18" drivers you will be impressed. Your neighbors probably not so happy. Call this build the "island shaker"
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post #18 of 61 Old 07-11-2014, 07:12 AM
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post #19 of 61 Old 07-11-2014, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassment View Post
none of those pics are showing up
That's strange!

I'll try again.

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post #20 of 61 Old 07-11-2014, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
14hz is too low IMO. You like chest slam, so you might like a 17hz tun better IMO, even a 20hz tune. Personally I would take 20hz > 14hz, but 17hz is nice comprimise. The higher tune will have more "chest slam" The lower tune will give you bragging rights online if you measure extension, but in reality it will be less impressive in real life. Especially on music. Music probably a 22hz tune would be better actually. Anyways... we can look at them all.

It's really your choice on tuning but I find the higher tune is more impressive in real life. Don't be fooled chasing ultra low freqencies, because you give up something doing that. It's noticable IMO. and it's usually not worth it.

If you build two of these with two SI 18" drivers you will be impressed. Your neighbors probably not so happy. Call this build the "island shaker"
Hey, don't get hung up thinking you need a design that has “Marty” used as a prefix or a suffix in it's name. It's just a ported enclosure design that I think originally focused on being easy to build/cut. Focus on what you really need and then get a ported enclosure design to match that. If you like one of the Marty designs, go for it but don't feel like you're missing something if you don't.

I don't know if you've taken a look at the SI HT 18 product page but they recommend a 4 cubic ft sealed enclosure or a 5 to 6 cubic ft ported enclosure tuned to 20 Hz for the SI 18. This jives with the tuning frequency recommendation above from Mfusick. I've seen a lot of 17 Hz ported designs around too. Yeah, so I agree that 14 Hz might be overkill and don't forget that you already have those buttkickers! Those will probably impress your guests more than the low tuned sub. Either way, they will call you the “island shaker.”
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post #21 of 61 Old 07-11-2014, 07:58 PM
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If you go for an enclosure with the outside dimensions of 48" by 24" by 24" then the ideal port size for a 16hz to 17hz tune will be 3" tall by 22.5" wide and 36" long. At least that is what the original full sized MartySub was designed for, and would apply to both the Dayton HO18 and the SI 18HT.
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post #22 of 61 Old 07-13-2014, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
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none of those pics are showing up
It is working for me on my screen:






They are attached here again.
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post #23 of 61 Old 07-14-2014, 07:22 AM
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that is weird, why can't I see them? Can other people see them? I can see all the ones you just posted.
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post #24 of 61 Old 07-14-2014, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
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that is weird, why can't I see them? Can other people see them? I can see all the ones you just posted.
It's the same for me. I can only see the pictures in his second post.
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post #25 of 61 Old 07-14-2014, 10:09 AM
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It's the same for me. I can only see the pictures in his second post.
hmmm... sorry.

It still works for me. So odd.

You can just fill in the missing pics with the links from the second post I guess.

Seems like OP disappeared anyways... Not sure if it's something in the water around here but often people do a million posts asking for something then you try to give it to them and they go silent.

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post #26 of 61 Old 07-14-2014, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
hmmm... sorry.

It still works for me. So odd.

You can just fill in the missing pics with the links from the second post I guess.

Seems like OP disappeared anyways... Not sure if it's something in the water around here but often people do a million posts asking for something then you try to give it to them and they go silent.
Yeah it is weird. On my laptop it shows a blank space and on my tablet it shows a broken link icon. No worries though.

I also want to say I called it before you did. He did disappear but then again isn't he suppose to come to the states this month? Maybe he'll pick it up again when he gets back.
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post #27 of 61 Old 07-15-2014, 09:33 AM
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I just realized I wasn't being clear about the subwoofer impedance. I said you want the 2 ohm version, what I mean by that is you want the Dual 4 ohm voice coil option, which you will then wire in parallel to give you a 2 ohm load. So you want the D4, not the D2.
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post #28 of 61 Old 07-15-2014, 01:03 PM
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dual voice coils always gives you plenty of options. 2 ohms is good for a single driver off one amp. But two of the 2ohm loads might be too heavy, so a 4ohm voice coils make more sense (2ohms per channel when the VC are in parallel)

I think it mostly will depend on what amp you use. Most amps can do 2ohms (good ones) but monster amps can do 1ohm.

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"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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post #29 of 61 Old 07-15-2014, 01:22 PM
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he has the inuke 3000, so he needs the subs to be 2 ohm each or he won't get nearly enough power if he's running two subs.
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post #30 of 61 Old 07-16-2014, 07:54 PM
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he has the inuke 3000, so he needs the subs to be 2 ohm each or he won't get nearly enough power if he's running two subs.
Yup. You are right. I wonder where he went. He was posting like a crazy man for a while.

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"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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