Gjallarhorn driver choice - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 17 Old 07-16-2014, 04:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Gjallarhorn driver choice

Is there any issue using the 21SW152-4 instead of the TC sounds LMS-ultra in the gjallarhorn or is the project specific to a driver?
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post #2 of 17 Old 07-16-2014, 04:28 AM
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It was designed for an 18". The UXL or Ultra from TC Sound. Or possibly a pair of dual 15's. Type R's from Alpine. Ricci has made both the plans available. Why are you wanting to use a 21"?
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post #3 of 17 Old 07-16-2014, 05:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Ricci said in his data-bass info for the Gjallarhorn, "The access panel is purposely large enough to allow for even 21" drivers." It isn't purposely designed for only 18's. I am checking if there is a reason the B&C wont work.

As to why: Brand preference, motor power to cone weight ratio (MMS vs BL), can't be damaged as easy as the TC by bottoming out, lower cost, great resistance to power compression, lowish driver weight (neo magnets), and they are used in many venues because of the durability. I also heard them (ported) and liked them.
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post #4 of 17 Old 07-16-2014, 06:41 AM
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I'm not sure the B&C would be ideal since the tune is so low. With a tune below 20hz like the Ghorn, I think a long-throw 18" like the LMS or UXL is the best choice.

In the Othorn, the linear excursion limits on the B&C are hit at ~37-38hz.
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post #5 of 17 Old 07-16-2014, 07:01 AM
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At this time the only drivers that model well and I know work well are the UXL and the 5400. The 21sw152 is not a match.
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post #6 of 17 Old 07-16-2014, 08:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks everyone
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post #7 of 17 Old 07-16-2014, 08:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post
It was designed for an 18". The UXL or Ultra from TC Sound. Or possibly a pair of dual 15's. Type R's from Alpine. Ricci has made both the plans available. Why are you wanting to use a 21"?
I actually have 4 SWR1522D alpines doing nothing in their shipping boxes. These are drop in substitutes for the Gjallarhorn? No changes? It looks like a tight fit on the panel where the 18" would go.
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post #8 of 17 Old 07-16-2014, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinMonster View Post
I actually have 4 SWR1522D alpines doing nothing in their shipping boxes. These are drop in substitutes for the Gjallarhorn? No changes? It looks like a tight fit on the panel where the 18" would go.
Very very jealous. I planned on being the only dual 15 Ghorn builds.

The cutouts are different obviously but that is what I planned on doing when I build the Ghorn next year. If I decide I am missing the lower octave. But Ricci has already done the work. I have the plans for the dual and it would appear that it is only the baffle that changes. I am sure Ricci can make the comment about it. They are slightly staggered on the baffle but there looks to be plenty of room.

That being said the UXL and Ultra do look better response wise. I believe the Type R rolls off quicker on the extension end and does not go as loud. This was with enough wattage to put the Type R to Xmax only. Still needed a Hpass at 15hz to be safe. Made about 125db at 22Hz and up before rolling off towards 15hz. I am also not 100% sure on my inputs for the Type R. Pretty sure but could be off slightly.

Either way the dual 15 is a cheaper option for me and others I believe for the Ghorn. See what Ricci's comments are.

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post #9 of 17 Old 07-16-2014, 10:46 PM
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might take a look at lilmike's f20 and lilwrecker. that driver should work in one of those two. i just don't recall in which it would work best.

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post #10 of 17 Old 07-17-2014, 01:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post

That being said the UXL and Ultra do look better response wise. I believe the Type R rolls off quicker on the extension end and does not go as loud. This was with enough wattage to put the Type R to Xmax only. Still needed a Hpass at 15hz to be safe. Made about 125db at 22Hz and up before rolling off towards 15hz. .
Two SWR1522D's in 9 cubic foot ported boxes do 125db at 25hz ported. I'd do that before building a complicated TH with possible ringing at 60&100hz. I'm inclined to just pay for the TC's to get the full deal.

On the subject of ringing, here is the LMS-Ultra in the G-horn and sealed. The decay shows some strong ringing at 60hz where the sealed is clean. A ported B&C 21" is also below and that's clean too. Any input on if this manifests itself as poor SQ. I know asking a subjective question is dangerous because people hear what they want to hear but my real aim here is to see if it can be tamed somehow with a notch or just plain EQ. I guess they can be used 16-45hz and then off to mains that can handle down to 45hz.

This is the G-horn with the TC ultra


This is the TC sealed


This is a ported B&C 21"


Any insights into the decay? The ported B&C has a slight delay at the 25hz tuning which makes sense.
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post #11 of 17 Old 07-17-2014, 01:17 AM
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ricci has discussed it. search on his name and those terms and it should pull up a few posts where he reviews eq and results.

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post #12 of 17 Old 07-17-2014, 01:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Just to clarify, does EQ at 60 and 110hz tame not just the peaks in amplitude, but also the time domain ringing?
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post #13 of 17 Old 07-17-2014, 01:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
ricci has discussed it. search on his name and those terms and it should pull up a few posts where he reviews eq and results.
I think I was the one who brought it up in the thread you mention but I didn't know he responded. I'll go look.

Would EQ also reduce the time issue? I imagine a notch would.
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post #14 of 17 Old 07-17-2014, 01:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Actually he addressed that the ringing is present but not a fix or how EQ would affect it.

He has it on his Data-bass website here:

http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=content&id=82
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post #15 of 17 Old 07-17-2014, 01:34 AM - Thread Starter
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The B&C 21" in the Orthorn is really clean to 110hz where it rings slightly.

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post #16 of 17 Old 07-17-2014, 08:40 AM
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To see how EQ affects the ringing of horns(Make no mistake undersized FLH's ring too) look at the sealed vs ported vs TH article at DB where I used the same LMSR12 drivers in all 3 alignments and EQd them to the same response shape. You should be able to see the effect on the dts10 with LMSR12 drivers before and after EQ.

In short the ringing is often at peaks in the response so if you EQ them down flat with the rest of the response it will improve the ringing relative to the rest of the bass but it will not actually change the rate of decay.

Also please note that the multiple drivers in the GH or really in any other horn is a fail if their loading to the throat is not equalized. I recommend no other driver compliments in either the Othorn or the GH than a single 18 or 21. I learned this after a lot of work and simulation. It isn't about finding the right drivers. You just can't load drivers into the horn path in different spots as the loading on each will be WAY different and power handling and output suffers greatly.
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Last edited by Ricci; 07-17-2014 at 08:46 AM.
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post #17 of 17 Old 07-18-2014, 11:28 AM
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