For $500 or less, is it worth building? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 42 Old 07-16-2014, 12:14 PM - Thread Starter
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For $500 or less, is it worth building?

My max budget is $500 for a living room sub. Can't have a big box. Likely biggest sub wise i would go is a 12. Should i go for something like the SVS PB-1000 or try and build something? I want the best output for the price in a box not bigger than the SVS. It will be for everyday TV and occasional movie or music.

I have built subs in the past (4xUltimax 15s in their own sealed enclosures) those are in my basement Home theatre. So this would be more for everyday use so WAF is huge (as per the size).

Any help or recommendation is very much appreciated.

Thanks!
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post #2 of 42 Old 07-16-2014, 12:27 PM
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depends, what's the WAF on the finish? Can you just paint it flat black?
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post #3 of 42 Old 07-16-2014, 12:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah black would be fine. Flat black.
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post #4 of 42 Old 07-16-2014, 01:37 PM
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It would be worth it I think then, just get a 12" or 15" in a small sealed box, and either inuke 3000 or 1000, if you can't have a separate amplifier get a plate amp, but an inuke is way better value.

A 15 " in a 18" x 18" x 18" or so box would be basically the same size as the PB-1000 but will easily out-perform it.

I'd either go 17" x 17" x 19" box and https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...4-ohm--295-468 and inuke 1000

or 18" x 18" x 20" box and https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...-coil--295-514 and an inuke 3000

Both these boxes would basically be the same size as PB-1000, maybe an inch wider.


Both subs would be a TINY bit better in slightly larger boxes if you can extend any of the dimensions by an inch or two.
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post #5 of 42 Old 07-16-2014, 01:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the info. I already have 4 of the Ultimax, so i know they are good. I will see how the pricing works out to.

Thanks!
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post #6 of 42 Old 07-16-2014, 02:07 PM
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If you can do two subs you can build a couple of sealed 12" Infinity Reference 1260W/1262W in a pretty small box and power it with the amps Bassment recommended. It won't give you the output of the 15", but will provide smoother response if properly implemented.
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post #7 of 42 Old 07-16-2014, 08:13 PM
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How about 2 Anarchy Tapped Horns? You can build 2 for about $300, including drivers, and have good output down to 25Hz. Their size is 8 1/4" Wide x 30" Tall x 20 1/8" Deep, which may allow you to hide them somewhere in the living room where they are less noticeable.

Just another option to consider...
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post #8 of 42 Old 07-17-2014, 04:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhutchins View Post
How about 2 Anarchy Tapped Horns? You can build 2 for about $300, including drivers, and have good output down to 25Hz. Their size is 8 1/4" Wide x 30" Tall x 20 1/8" Deep, which may allow you to hide them somewhere in the living room where they are less noticeable.

Just another option to consider...

Which driver model is used in the Anarchy tapped horn, and is it still available? If so, where ?
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post #9 of 42 Old 07-17-2014, 06:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duc135 View Post
If you can do two subs you can build a couple of sealed 12" Infinity Reference 1260W/1262W in a pretty small box and power it with the amps Bassment recommended. It won't give you the output of the 15", but will provide smoother response if properly implemented.
I was actually looking at this setup. I even bookmarked a thread of someone who built them and it was very interesting. Only thing is that I wouldn't be able to build 2. My only option is for 1 sub. How would the output be with 1?

Just an FYI, I dont think I mentioned it before, but my room is 18x13 with 9ft ceilings and open to the kitchen on one side.

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Originally Posted by mhutchins View Post
How about 2 Anarchy Tapped Horns? You can build 2 for about $300, including drivers, and have good output down to 25Hz. Their size is 8 1/4" Wide x 30" Tall x 20 1/8" Deep, which may allow you to hide them somewhere in the living room where they are less noticeable.

Just another option to consider...
I think this would be too big for the wife (although she never complained about things being toooo big before ) but I would have to check.
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post #10 of 42 Old 07-17-2014, 07:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Would the 10" Ultimax be enough output with lets say a 500watt amp in a sealed enclosure? Would it more output than a single 12" Infinity setup mentioned above?

I am not looking for earth shattering bass. Just some thump when watching tv/movie on tv or listening to music.

As I mentioned before, I already have a HT in the basement with 4 15" Utimaxs.
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post #11 of 42 Old 07-17-2014, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04rex View Post
Would the 10" Ultimax be enough output with lets say a 500watt amp in a sealed enclosure? Would it more output than a single 12" Infinity setup mentioned above?

I am not looking for earth shattering bass. Just some thump when watching tv/movie on tv or listening to music.

As I mentioned before, I already have a HT in the basement with 4 15" Utimaxs.
I personally think any sealed 10" sub is going to struggle to keep up with a ported 10" SVS. Most say that ported designs yield a good 6-10db over sealed, all other things being equal. Even a sealed 15" like what you've built already is questionable. With about 2.5x the cone area and double the power of the 10" SVS you'll probably make up the deficit of it being sealed compared to ported (prob 4db from the cone area, 3db from doubling power).

If you're going sealed, your best bet is probably an 18 like some have suggested in this thread or you may not be satisfied.

You should probably consider ported though. If you're comparing to a ported SVS 10", you should consider a ported DIY 10" or 12" that doesn't require a lot of volume. Those setups, bang for the buck would best the SVS at the price which seems to be your goal.
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post #12 of 42 Old 07-17-2014, 07:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the info Brutal.

Do you know of any 10" or 12" DIY ported boxes that are the same or smaller than the SVS?
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post #13 of 42 Old 07-17-2014, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrutalBodyShots View Post
I personally think any sealed 10" sub is going to struggle to keep up with a ported 10" SVS. Most say that ported designs yield a good 6-10db over sealed, all other things being equal. Even a sealed 15" like what you've built already is questionable. With about 2.5x the cone area and double the power of the 10" SVS you'll probably make up the deficit of it being sealed compared to ported (prob 4db from the cone area, 3db from doubling power).

If you're going sealed, your best bet is probably an 18 like some have suggested in this thread or you may not be satisfied.

You should probably consider ported though. If you're comparing to a ported SVS 10", you should consider a ported DIY 10" or 12" that doesn't require a lot of volume. Those setups, bang for the buck would best the SVS at the price which seems to be your goal.
he wants a small box though, ported boxes, small boxes and decent bass don't mix.
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post #14 of 42 Old 07-17-2014, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassment View Post
he wants a small box though, ported boxes, small boxes and decent bass don't mix.
I get that, but he's considering a PB1000 which is a small ported box.
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post #15 of 42 Old 07-17-2014, 07:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Size and price are essentially the deciding factors here. I understand that i am giving up Bass extension and all that, but it isn't going to be used for anything hardcore. More to just get some low end. I know ported is essentially better for what i am looking for, but if i could build a sealed one for less and have almost the same output, then i would be fine as it would save some cash.

To give you an idea, i was also looking at the Dayton Sub12 or whatever its called or even the BIC that goes for $200. Seeing as i already did DYI, can i do one that would outperform those for the same or bit more price. I know the SVS would destroy those though. But after shipping and all that (i live in Canada and i know SVS has a Canadian retailer but it would still come out to about $650 after shipping and taxes) it gets too expensive. I cant really go higher than $500 all in. Even that is a bit of a stretch.
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post #16 of 42 Old 07-17-2014, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04rex View Post
Size and price are essentially the deciding factors here. I understand that i am giving up Bass extension and all that, but it isn't going to be used for anything hardcore. More to just get some low end. I know ported is essentially better for what i am looking for, but if i could build a sealed one for less and have almost the same output, then i would be fine as it would save some cash.

To give you an idea, i was also looking at the Dayton Sub12 or whatever its called or even the BIC that goes for $200. Seeing as i already did DYI, can i do one that would outperform those for the same or bit more price. I know the SVS would destroy those though. But after shipping and all that (i live in Canada and i know SVS has a Canadian retailer but it would still come out to about $650 after shipping and taxes) it gets too expensive. I cant really go higher than $500 all in. Even that is a bit of a stretch.
You can build a sealed one for less - no doubt about it but it depends on your definition of "almost the same output." Like I said above you're giving up probably 6db, maybe up to 10db in going sealed vs ported. You said your just after some low end and not looking to shake down the house so maybe you'd be happy with a single DIY sealed sub. You said you've already built four Ultimax 15's right? What about taking one of them and putting it where you plan to put your new sub and auditioning it, seeing if it meets your needs. That will give you a good point of comparison DIY wise. If it exceeds your needs, maybe a single sealed 12 would suffice. If it meets your needs, maybe build another of what you've already built?
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post #17 of 42 Old 07-17-2014, 08:14 AM
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Your original idea, the SVS SB-100, sounds good to me. It matches your budget and the desired footprint exactly. Plus you get free shipping, the 45 day in home demo, and all their other benefits. Can't really go wrong. The build ideas are great too, unless you're like me -- and can't find the time to build a sandwich, let alone a sub. Plus after the demo period, you can't send your DIY back to SVS for a refund.

Disclaimer is that I bought a couple of SVS cylinders last year and think they sound great. I even got high WAF on them, which is sort of a shocker. No wonder I like em.
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post #18 of 42 Old 07-17-2014, 12:27 PM
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Your original idea, the SVS SB-100, sounds good to me. It matches your budget and the desired footprint exactly. Plus you get free shipping, the 45 day in home demo, and all their other benefits. Can't really go wrong. The build ideas are great too, unless you're like me -- and can't find the time to build a sandwich, let alone a sub. Plus after the demo period, you can't send your DIY back to SVS for a refund.

Disclaimer is that I bought a couple of SVS cylinders last year and think they sound great. I even got high WAF on them, which is sort of a shocker. No wonder I like em.
His original idea was the PB-1000, not the sealed version.
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post #19 of 42 Old 07-17-2014, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04rex View Post
I was actually looking at this setup. I even bookmarked a thread of someone who built them and it was very interesting. Only thing is that I wouldn't be able to build 2. My only option is for 1 sub. How would the output be with 1?

Just an FYI, I dont think I mentioned it before, but my room is 18x13 with 9ft ceilings and open to the kitchen on one side.
If your room didn't open up to the kitchen I would say it has pretty good output in that room, but with addition of the kitchen I don't know. It would be up to your setup and preferences. I've built a few of them for my family and tests in my 2300^ft3 sealed room was pretty impressive for its diminutive size. IIRC they were 15" cubes with a double front baffle and internal bracing.

Since you can't do multiple small 12" subs then I second the single high powered/high excursion 15" sealed sub or a single ported 12" sub.

Last edited by duc135; 07-17-2014 at 07:31 PM.
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post #20 of 42 Old 07-17-2014, 03:43 PM
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PB-1000, even better.
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post #21 of 42 Old 07-17-2014, 07:33 PM
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post #22 of 42 Old 07-18-2014, 06:25 AM - Thread Starter
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If your room didn't open up to the kitchen I would say it has pretty good output in that room, but with addition of the kitchen I don't know. It would be up to your setup and preferences. I've built a few of them for my family and tests in my 2300^ft3 sealed room was pretty impressive for its diminutive size. IIRC they were 15" cubes with a double front baffle and internal bracing.

Since you can't do multiple small 12" subs then I second the single high powered/high excursion 15" sealed sub or a single ported 12" sub.
I would do it, but then the size comes into play. With the DIY flatpack for the 12" ported box, the box is pretty big. Unless there is something smaller. Same thing with the 15". I would love a nice, sealed 15", maybe another Ultimax, but the box would be too big. Again, unless there is a 15" small box sealed build somewhere. All for under $500.

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What if you built it as an end-table, then it would be hidden.

$169
http://www.parts-express.com/bash-30...w-rms--300-750

$180
http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-...-coil--295-512
That is a good idea, but I wouldn't know how to build that sort of box unless it was layed out for me. Although i built the 4 15", I am in no way a master craftsman. I just used Erich's flat packs.
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post #23 of 42 Old 07-18-2014, 09:24 AM
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If you want to match the PB-1000's size/performance for less $ you're going to have to build a custom box. Simple as that.
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post #24 of 42 Old 07-18-2014, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04rex View Post
I would do it, but then the size comes into play. With the DIY flatpack for the 12" ported box, the box is pretty big. Unless there is something smaller. Same thing with the 15". I would love a nice, sealed 15", maybe another Ultimax, but the box would be too big. Again, unless there is a 15" small box sealed build somewhere. All for under $500.
Plenty of options for sealed 15" subs that are smaller than the PB-1000. The PB-100 is 18.4" x 18.4" x 15".

You can get this in a 17" x 17" x 14" with double baffle and internal bracing if the recommended enclosure size on the page is correct.

Or you can get an Alpine SWR-1522D or SWR-1542D stuffed into a 17" x 17" x 14.5" with a double baffle. You'll need at least a triple baffle for it if you want to flush mount it. It has a VERY tall mounting frame (1.25" tall).

The Alpine SWS-15D2/15D4 uses an even smaller enclosure, but you'd lose a few dBs of max output.

In about the same dimensions of the PB-1000 you can shoehorn a pair of the 12" Infinity Reference 1260W/1262W in a dual opposed setup. This will have to be single baffle and surface mounted.

It would help if you provided maximum dimensions for the enclosure that you can get away with. Without that people are going to only guess at what you mean by small and about the size of the PB-1000. "Small enclosure" size is all relative.
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post #25 of 42 Old 07-18-2014, 10:02 AM
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Some Physical constraints wrt to subs
you can build it to be
Loud
Low
Small


you get to pick 2


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post #26 of 42 Old 07-18-2014, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
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I guess i would want loud and small. But with as much low as possible, being loud and small. lol.

I am not at home right now, but I will measure out the space it would go in, and how big it can be. Just an FYI, it would go in a corner, so i know that being in a corner, it kind of amplifies itslef a bit.

I know corner isn't always the best place, but that is what i am working with. In my basement where my real setup is I have free reign, but in the living room, I am lucky to be able to do this.
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post #27 of 42 Old 07-18-2014, 11:13 AM - Thread Starter
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What would be the smallest box dimensions i would need to build, lets say an Ultimax 10" ported, while still giving good output and going as low as possible? Amp wise, i guess i can put anywhere from 300-500rms into it if i get one of the plate amps or the inuke 1000.
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post #28 of 42 Old 07-18-2014, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04rex View Post
What would be the smallest box dimensions i would need to build, lets say an Ultimax 10" ported, while still giving good output and going as low as possible? Amp wise, i guess i can put anywhere from 300-500rms into it if i get one of the plate amps or the inuke 1000.

16" W x 22" H x 22" D box out of 3/4" thick wood. You would need a 4" port 36" long. You achieve that length buy using a 4" PVC elbow fitting and regular 4" PVC pipe for the port

http://www.lowes.com/pd_23355-1814-P...ductId=3132779

http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay?...+1000&langId=-

This will get you a 3 ft3 box tuned to 17 hz. You could use a 500 watt plate amp with an 18hz filter, or a DSP pro amp with a 20 hz filter.
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post #29 of 42 Old 07-18-2014, 11:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok, I am going to have to measure out the area then to see what I am working with. I will update the thread once I measure it out tonight.
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post #30 of 42 Old 07-18-2014, 11:39 AM
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If I had a $500 budget, I'd go with two Infinity 12, each in a sealed 1.5cuft box, and powered by a iNuke amp with dsp. All for under $500.
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