combo "family room + Outdoor HT " DIY speakers. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 31 Old 07-25-2014, 09:07 AM - Thread Starter
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combo "family room + Outdoor HT " curvy Fusion-8 MTM's DIY speakers.

Time flies.....I posted Jan-2014 in the " A 3 way 99db multi configurable SEOS design " thread my desire for combo "family room + Outdoor HT " DIY speakers for the mains R/C/L.
A 3 way 99db multi configurable SEOS design

Now I'm ready to tackle that project, as Aug-29 thru Sept-1 is when we will do the outdoor HT weekend event, so got about 4 weeks to get them done.

My constraints are the size of the 3-way-99db are too big for my family room, the current AT350's are 8" wide x 12" deep x 23" tall, so instead I'm looking at DIY Fusion-8 Alchemy MTM, seems a perfect upgrade.
I'd have 2 vertical as R/L, and 1 horizontal as C.
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/fusion8-mtm-kit.html
I've put 3 in the shopping cart, before I pull the trigger and order I'm open to suggestions/others.
Constraints: size - the 10" x 28" x 12" deep of the Fusion-8 Alchemy MTM are max what I can go

Family room 5.1 set-up, pano via iPhone 5s.
It's open family room, the TV/Audio is corner placed due to fireplace, I know not ideal from sound PQ viewpoint but primary HT is the basement and this is "just" 5.1 for casual TV viewing and music when family gatherings happen.


Like stated these will also see 2nd duty as occasional outdoor HT speakers
Outdoor movie annual fall 2-3 showings/year, I mount the R/L on the walls, and the center goes below the 16ft x 9 ft screen.
The PJ is 29 ft back, people sit between 10 ft and 30 ft, I've had 45 over before
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Last edited by mtbdudex; 08-29-2014 at 05:30 AM. Reason: title update
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post #2 of 31 Old 07-25-2014, 09:12 AM
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Man, I love your outdoor setup! I've looked at it before and haven't forgotten it. We did an outdoor movie night at my house a few weeks back and it was awesome. My setup is much smaller than yours but everyone had a great time nonetheless.
The Fusion MTMs is a fine choice given your indoor size restraints, in my opinion. Lots of folks seem to love them. Go for it!


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post #3 of 31 Old 07-25-2014, 09:28 AM
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Someone posted a new layout for that MTM in the big waveguide thread.


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Twelve 10" NHT subwoofer build.
Cloning of a NHT VR-3.
2 ACI 15" subwoofers.

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post #4 of 31 Old 07-25-2014, 09:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Erich - , I'm ready to place order for 3 of the DIY Fusion-8 Alchemy MTM's, I can't seem to find a 1.3 cu ft flat pack for them, is there one on your site?

However, if you have some other option that will fit my size constraints, ie similar to the Fusion-8's I'm open.

[edit] PM sent to your Erich

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Last edited by mtbdudex; 07-25-2014 at 10:28 AM. Reason: PM
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post #5 of 31 Old 07-25-2014, 09:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtsdig View Post
Man, I love your outdoor setup! I've looked at it before and haven't forgotten it. We did an outdoor movie night at my house a few weeks back and it was awesome. My setup is much smaller than yours but everyone had a great time nonetheless.
The Fusion MTMs is a fine choice given your indoor size restraints, in my opinion. Lots of folks seem to love them. Go for it!
I just read your curved build thread, awesome!
Actually my size limitation is for the R/L only if I want them in exact same layout, the center can be bigger.....after seeing what you did curved I'm re-looking at options.

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post #6 of 31 Old 07-25-2014, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post
I just read your curved build thread, awesome!
Actually my size limitation is for the R/L only if I want them in exact same layout, the center can be bigger.....after seeing what you did curved I'm re-looking at options.
Thanks! I'm happy to be an inspiration for people considering curves!
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post #7 of 31 Old 07-25-2014, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post
Time flies.....I posted Jan-2014 in the " A 3 way 99db multi configurable SEOS design " thread my desire for combo "family room + Outdoor HT " DIY speakers for the mains R/C/L.
A 3 way 99db multi configurable SEOS design

Now I'm ready to tackle that project, as Aug-29 thru Sept-1 is when we will do the outdoor HT weekend event, so got about 4 weeks to get them done.

My constraints are the size of the 3-way-99db are too big for my family room, the current AT350's are 8" wide x 12" deep x 23" tall, so instead I'm looking at DIY Fusion-8 Alchemy MTM, seems a perfect upgrade.
I'd have 2 vertical as R/L, and 1 horizontal as C.
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/fusion8-mtm-kit.html
I've put 3 in the shopping cart, before I pull the trigger and order I'm open to suggestions/others.
Constraints: size - the 10" x 28" x 12" deep of the Fusion-8 Alchemy MTM are max what I can go

Family room 5.1 set-up, pano via iPhone 5s.
It's open family room, the TV/Audio is corner placed due to fireplace, I know not ideal from sound PQ viewpoint but primary HT is the basement and this is "just" 5.1 for casual TV viewing and music when family gatherings happen.


Like stated these will also see 2nd duty as occasional outdoor HT speakers
Outdoor movie annual fall 2-3 showings/year, I mount the R/L on the walls, and the center goes below the 16ft x 9 ft screen.
The PJ is 29 ft back, people sit between 10 ft and 30 ft, I've had 45 over before
That is just so cool! My kids would love it! And my wife would just plan love your house! I told her we have to leave SoCal before shes getting a log cabin. Awesome pics anf thanks for sharing!

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post #8 of 31 Old 07-25-2014, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post
Time flies.....I posted Jan-2014 in the " A 3 way 99db multi configurable SEOS design " thread my desire for combo "family room + Outdoor HT " DIY speakers for the mains R/C/L.
A 3 way 99db multi configurable SEOS design

Now I'm ready to tackle that project, as Aug-29 thru Sept-1 is when we will do the outdoor HT weekend event, so got about 4 weeks to get them done.

My constraints are the size of the 3-way-99db are too big for my family room, the current AT350's are 8" wide x 12" deep x 23" tall, so instead I'm looking at DIY Fusion-8 Alchemy MTM, seems a perfect upgrade.
I'd have 2 vertical as R/L, and 1 horizontal as C.
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/fusion8-mtm-kit.html
I've put 3 in the shopping cart, before I pull the trigger and order I'm open to suggestions/others.
Constraints: size - the 10" x 28" x 12" deep of the Fusion-8 Alchemy MTM are max what I can go

Family room 5.1 set-up, pano via iPhone 5s.
It's open family room, the TV/Audio is corner placed due to fireplace, I know not ideal from sound PQ viewpoint but primary HT is the basement and this is "just" 5.1 for casual TV viewing and music when family gatherings happen.


Like stated these will also see 2nd duty as occasional outdoor HT speakers
Outdoor movie annual fall 2-3 showings/year, I mount the R/L on the walls, and the center goes below the 16ft x 9 ft screen.
The PJ is 29 ft back, people sit between 10 ft and 30 ft, I've had 45 over before
Quote:
Originally Posted by manuetdeo View Post
That is just so cool! My kids would love it!
Ditto on sharing. My wife went nuts and is asking me to price out a setup for our family. I would like to go DIY on the speakers but i'm actually thinking of a portable PA system for portability and durability with the plastic housings. Something like this. we have one at work that i plan to try out real soon thanks again for the inspiration.
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post #9 of 31 Old 07-25-2014, 09:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Thx Augmont and manuetdeo.
My wife told me recently "940 Saturdays" with kids before the are 18, well my kids are 8/10/12 so I've used up 50% already....
Seriously getting double duty from equipment is kinda neat, sure it's a pain you have to tear down and set-up outside, then store it overnight till the next night, but what the heck it's an event and just fun.
And you home is cluttered with more stuff "outta place"


So I'm looking forward to building Fusion-8 Alchemy MTM's, Erich told me about an upcoming tweak to them so I may be holding off a few weeks to see when those are available.
My desire is the tweaked Fusion-8 Alchemy MTM are available in 2 weeks, I'm one of the first to get them , build 3 of them and use them for the big event.

It's summer and before the kids go back to school, cub scouts starts up (I'm Cubmaster), etc got some time to get this done....
(and we are back from big 3 week out west vacation also, http://photography-on-the.net/forum/....php?t=1388458 , so basically at home with time to build .....

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post #10 of 31 Old 07-26-2014, 03:45 AM
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What tweaks are being done to the Fusion-8 Alchemy and what kind off effects will it have on the sound quality?
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post #11 of 31 Old 07-29-2014, 01:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post
What tweaks are being done to the Fusion-8 Alchemy and what kind off effects will it have on the sound quality?
The Fusion-8 Alchemy MTM are off the DIY sound group site, erich said tweak was to woofer to they'd be 8ohm not 6 ohm, and also ports tweaked for overall slightly smaller faceplate.

When the Tux 1099 briefly showed up on the DIY site I thought 3-4-5 times on ordering them instead.
But they are just to "big" for my family room, so I'm back to a 8" and waiting on the tweaked Fusion-8 Alchemy MTM's.

Now I also need to consider (2) surrounds to complement them in my family room, as my dome tweeter bi-poles are such a mis-match.
Any thoughts?
Considering V-8 Volt vs Fusion-8.

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post #12 of 31 Old 07-31-2014, 01:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, I'm going with fusion-8's for the side surround duty, and will angle them down and forward.
Shopping cart made, will place order#1 shortly, now waiting for the 8ohm fusion-MTM R/L and Ctr to show up that will be order#2



You just made a payment of $440.19 USD (shipping included)
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Last edited by mtbdudex; 07-31-2014 at 01:57 PM. Reason: 1st payment sent
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post #13 of 31 Old 07-31-2014, 06:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Nice, my order is in for the Fusion-8's, and I see progress, the 8 ohm MTM's are now showing up on the site, not order able yet...

Quote:
Model Alchemy MTM Designer's Name Jeff Bagby Woofer Two: 16ohm 8" Denovo DW816 Tweeter Denovo DNA-205 in a EOS-8 waveguide Sensitivity 98.5dB - 2.83V/1m Nominal Impedance 8 Ohm Frequency Response 60hz - 20khz Crossover Point 2300hz Recommended Power 10 - 450 watts Enclosure Type Ported Overall Dimension 10"w x 27"h x 12" deep Included Parts 2 - Denovo DW816 8" woofers (16ohm)
1 - Denovo DNA-205 1" compression driver
1 - CNC cut baffle
1 - EOS-8 waveguide
1 - Slot port
1 - Set of Crossover components
Screws for woofer and tweeter
I'll check tmrw morning, if order able, I'm in for 2 of these and then a center 8 ohm MTM when that's available.

Maybe, just maybe I'll have all these built before Labor day weekend.

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post #14 of 31 Old 08-11-2014, 03:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Saw the tweaked 8-ohm Fusion-8 Center and MTM went live for sale this morning, just ordered mine:
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/wavegui.../fusion-8.html
Quote:
Description Unit price Qty Amount
Fusion-8 Alchemy Center
Item# Alchemy Center $237.00 USD 1 $237.00 USD
Alchemy MTM
Item# Alchemy MTM $230.00 USD 2 $460.00 USD
Subtotal $697.00 USD
Total $697.00 USD
Payment $697.00 USD
Plus my earlier shipment of the 2 Fusion-8 just got shipping notice....
Quote:
We have shipped your Order #xxxxxxxxxx
So I'll be making the surrounds this weekend - a full kit I need to asssemble them.

The MTM's when they arrive I need to make my own 1.3 cu ft boxes along with assemble my own crossovers....will ask for guidance when that time comes.

Quote:
Model Fusion - 8 Alchemy Center Designer's Name Jeff Bagby Woofer 8" Eminence (dual) Tweeter Denovo DNA-205 in an EOS-8 waveguide Sensitivity 98.5dB - 2.83V/1m Nominal Impedance 8 Ohm Frequency Response 65hz - 20khz Crossover Point 2500hz Recommended Power 10 - 300 watts Enclosure Type Ported Overall Dimension TBA Included Parts 2 - Eminence 8" woofers
1 - Denovo DNA-205 1" compression driver
1 - CNC cut baffle
1 - EOS-8 waveguide
4 - Slot ports
1 - Set of Crossover components
Screws for woofer and tweeter
Quote:
Model Alchemy MTM Designer's Name Jeff Bagby Woofer Two: 16ohm 8" Denovo DW816 Tweeter Denovo DNA-205 in a EOS-8 waveguide Sensitivity 98.5dB - 2.83V/1m Nominal Impedance 8 Ohm Frequency Response 60hz - 20khz Crossover Point 2300hz Recommended Power 10 - 450 watts Enclosure Type Ported Overall Dimension 10"w x 27"h x 12" deep Included Parts 2 - Denovo DW816 8" woofers (16ohm)
1 - Denovo DNA-205 1" compression driver
1 - CNC cut baffle
1 - EOS-8 waveguide
1 - Slot port
1 - Set of Crossover components
Screws for woofer and tweeter

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post #15 of 31 Old 08-11-2014, 10:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Curve fever!
I see lot's of curved boxes recently, and I've been thinking to do same for the MTM's.
Center would be flat bottom and curved top, while mains curve both sides.

I'll read thru the threads and links and gain knowledge.
Not 100% committing, but since these are going in my family room what the heck....then that leads to the finish.

I was going to simply paint them black as my log home is white pine and most other wood tones/finishes do not really look good there.

Choice is flat black like I've done subs or go for a glossy black finish, which IMO with kids/etc will show fingerprints and dust.....

Any other ideas on speaker finishes in a light stained log home is appreciated.
The interior is stained Ipswich pine @ 30% strength, slight red in it..
They will be here:

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post #16 of 31 Old 08-11-2014, 10:08 AM
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Curve it baby !
How about a dark stain over veneer that still shows wood grain ?
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post #17 of 31 Old 08-11-2014, 11:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Curve it baby !
How about a dark stain over veneer that still shows wood grain ?
Thx you've given me something to work with, those 18 year old AT 350 are a black veener grained, kinda hard to see but its there.

I'll look at wood stain and see what the wife thinks also....WAF needed here...
http://www.minwax.com/wood-products/stains-color-guide/

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post #18 of 31 Old 08-18-2014, 04:57 AM - Thread Starter
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All my shipments arrived, as usual DIY soundgroup has excellent packaging.

Here I'm un-boxing the Fusion-8's in above garage workshop.
I won't touch the MTM's till the Fusion-8's are done.


Stack of pieces....


Simple dry fitting, these go together so easily


I notice the top brace edge by the waveguide barely protrudes, will dry-fit the waveguide to see if issue or not




RH side surround going here, not down firing rather on side and angled forward


LS side surround going here, same side and angled down and forward



Speaker finish:
I really love the baltic birch - so once the boxes are done before the baffle glued on I will test stain inside to see best options.
Prior was leaning to black baffle with dark stain sides, now I might try stain similar to log color with black baffle.

Current speakers finish:

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post #19 of 31 Old 08-18-2014, 06:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Did some stain samples via the smaller brace, was careful to stay away from the glue edge portion

LH side Bombay Mahogany RH side Ipswitch pine 50% mix (my interior logs are mixed that way)


LH side Rosewood RH side Ipswitch pine full strength mix


My wife and I put these in the living room, simply they get lost in all the wood.
We've experienced same with stained picture frames.

So, I need to get a sample of Black Onyx and try that next.
A black paint baffle with stained Black Onyx sides is a likely contender.


I also realize if I try and put a grille on these it (grille frame) may interfere with the pure sound path and cause un-wanted edge defraction.
Has anybody put a grille on the fusion-8's?

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post #20 of 31 Old 08-18-2014, 07:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Q on strong bracket to angle the fusion-8's down and forward.
Prior I used these brackets, Vogels BEK100 Speaker Brackets, for my main fronts R/L in family room.
I also used another pair in my HT basement for front heights.



If someone has a different bracket I'm willing to check them out, if not then I'm getting 1 pair of these beasts, they hold 25kg/55lbs each.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VOGELS-BEK-1...3D111403405243

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post #21 of 31 Old 08-18-2014, 08:17 PM
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Not sure how much the fusions weigh but http://www.ebay.com/itm/281353481087...84.m1423.l2649 I might try these for surrounds for the Volts.

Tux's Elusive 1099 (L/C/R)---Ascend CBM-170 SE (surrounds 9.2)---SVS PB 12 Plus---SVS PC 12 Plus---AVR Denon 4311CI---TV Vizio 70---Unraid 32TB Network Storage---Gateway SX 2370 HTPC with 120 SSD
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post #22 of 31 Old 08-19-2014, 01:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCRSS View Post
Not sure how much the fusions weigh but http://www.ebay.com/itm/281353481087...84.m1423.l2649 I might try these for surrounds for the Volts.
Those are an option also, but they don't appear to lock in 1 place, just pivot on their hinge pins, I like knowing they won't change direction as that will affect calibration.
The Vogels lock in place.

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post #23 of 31 Old 08-23-2014, 06:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Making progress - I love weekends early morning time .
Dry fit with clamps to establish glue and clamp strategy, which clamp to do 1st/2nd/etc.
I'm using basic titebond, have a damp rag on hand to quickly wipe overspill to make staining come out good.


put pencil marks where braces should align makes the job easier and more accurate


Glue time


Plenty of clamps


I like putting my clamps in place loosely so I don't lock in a gap, then tighten it in sequence to get it nice and tight, as tighten wipe seams with damp rag.
For me those cheap 90deg corner clamps are easy way to assure square corner.


Sibuna gave me staining tips in a PM which I will put to good use shortly.

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post #24 of 31 Old 08-29-2014, 12:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Been traveling for work this week so a little behind, I sanded last night got 220 on palm sander, and 400/600 on block sander.
Needed just the slightest of wood filler and small-small gap.
Can't see it at all after sanding, I'm ready for staining.

My thoughts are stain the box w/o baffle (tape on glue edge), paint the baffle black (tape on backside glue area), then carefully glue the baffle on.
I use titebond, wipe with damp rag.
>>MDF cannot take stain - correct?, so that's why I'm thinking this way.
Thoughts? I'm a novice wood finisher.





Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post
Curve it baby !
Besides yours these are curve benchmark threads for me Alchemy MTM - L&R Curved Towers + Center


and this one The Dtsdig Curvy-Cab Tux-1099 build!!


As these rears get done soon starting the mains and center.

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Last edited by mtbdudex; 08-29-2014 at 08:06 AM. Reason: images added
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post #25 of 31 Old 09-02-2014, 09:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Labor day weekend was gone camping, came back mid-afternoon yesterday.

Got just a little more done:
Did final sanding and put a stain "mask" on both boxes, will stain then and poly coat them open facing down, should leave that a clean joint for gluing.




I'll do same for the baffle, tape mask on backside to ensure clean glue joint area.

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post #26 of 31 Old 09-02-2014, 06:32 PM - Thread Starter
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stain conditioner applied


Onyx black applied - 1 coat, wiped excess after 3 minutes per direction


close up, shows grain like I had wished it would, however the wood feels "rough" compared to after I sanded it with 600 grit.
I'll see how even it dries tmrw morning, if need be I can spot apply locally by feathering in.

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post #27 of 31 Old 09-03-2014, 05:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Put 2nd coat of stain on this morning, came home and really liked the appearance.
The "rough" I felt is there, but less, what phenomenon is that called?

Tomorrow I will put 1 coat of poly on, let it dry, then very lightly hit it with sand block before 2nd coat of poly.
Yep - that's Onyx Baltic Birch Ply. I was careful with the glue joints and the stain looks even everywhere, not over flat @ the joint area.

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post #28 of 31 Old 09-03-2014, 05:22 PM
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When you put stain on wood it tends to raise the grain. That's the roughness you feel. Light dusting with 600 and its gone.
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post #29 of 31 Old 09-03-2014, 06:16 PM - Thread Starter
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So hit it lightly with 600, wipe with lint free rag, then apply the poly....thx

btw member sibuna helped me via PM, I think he was going to make a stain 101 for the sticky:

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post #30 of 31 Old 09-07-2014, 08:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Slow and steady progress...between 3 soccer games Saturday for my kids and other "stuff".
Drill and install neo magnets, epoxy then woof filler


My paper template to visualize the grille construction and benchmarking to other grilles
Their backside


and frontside


Small Dayton grille used 1/4" board, maybe hardibacker board?


The beefer Atlantic Technology System 350 uses 1/2" composite board


My paper template fit with components installed, looks like it will work ok


For these small/lightweight grille I'm looking at the 1/4" hardboard, radius the corners and the slight bevel to them.
Then, router out the driver circle and two bottom port slots with router, finally install neomagnet....
heck these will be so lightweight grilles if I had some 1/8" thk metal piece could use that to save neomagmets for other projects.
I'll see if at work there are some scraps in the metal shop, or I could just use a washer..... , yea that would work and simplest I guess.
Fabric, I might have leftover black grille cloth from Joann, and just glue it on like I saw others do, use contact cement?

Other progress - just primed the baffles, they are drying now.
Next is 2 coats of black, then 3-4 days of drying before I glue them to the box.


both primed and drying


If those neomagnets show thru after drying I'll put some spackel/sand/re-prime just that area before the black is applied.

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