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post #1 of 28 Old 07-25-2014, 02:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Contemplating DIY. Quick Questions for the professionals

Hi Gents, like so many on here I'm contemplating DIY subs for my media room. My Media room is 2340CuFt(18X13X10). My goal is to recreate a live music sound/feel without sacrificing the family media room. Im about 70/30 of listening to music vs watching movies.


My question is this: When you go to a concert, more particularly an outdoor concert, what type of sub is typically used? Is it a Front loaded Horn? If so, and I was trying to recreate that sound/feel would it make sense for me to build that type of sub for my media room?


Im currently running two Klipsch sw-112's and Im not overly impressed. Even more so I can't get balanced bass anywhere in the room no matter how I place the subs. I believe my room may have a natural null around 70 hz? Im hoping that I maybe able to DIY and even out the sound with 4 subs(each corner of the room). Thoughts and input are greatly appreciated.
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post #2 of 28 Old 07-25-2014, 02:30 PM
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I don't know about outdoor concert buy you will greatly improve what you have with diy. I have three of these

And having the third has made a huge difference in smoothing my 75hz null and with the third sub being right beside my couch its amazingly tactile. Four small sub's will reach the SPL you want and you will be very happy.
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post #3 of 28 Old 07-25-2014, 02:37 PM
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Definitely more subs is important, but you need to think through your priorities. Live music is not the same animal as movie soundtracks. Generally, live sound subs are tuned much higher. They gain a lot of output by forgoing content below 30-35hz. That's not to say that you can't get the levels you're looking for throughout the full bandwidth, but you'll need several (or many) subs and EQ.
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post #4 of 28 Old 07-25-2014, 02:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by HopefulFred View Post
Definitely more subs is important, but you need to think through your priorities. Live music is not the same animal as movie soundtracks. Generally, live sound subs are tuned much higher. They gain a lot of output by forgoing content below 30-35hz.

Got it. Good point. This is the reason I was asking. I still have a lot to learn.


Chalugadp, what size is the driver on your 3 subs? Are those 15"?
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post #5 of 28 Old 07-25-2014, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by aginhouse View Post
Got it. Good point. This is the reason I was asking. I still have a lot to learn.


Chalugadp, what size is the driver on your 3 subs? Are those 15"?
Yes. They sound great for music as any good sub will . you can make mine with one sheet of MDF and driver is 170 on parts express. Its a 21" cube so not too big in living room. Here is the cutlist
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post #6 of 28 Old 07-25-2014, 02:57 PM
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this is the kind of thing that you typically find for an outdoor concert:


http://www.jblpro.com/www/products/p...s#.U9LRL7lOW00


the tuning on the cab is a little too high for home theater though and the drivers may be a little short in excursion for a lot of home theater folks.


as a result, they use the same driver in a cab with a lower tuning in their theater sub:


http://www.jblpro.com/www/products/c...c#.U9LR_blOW00


most folks tradeoff a little on the sensitivity/power handling side for a cheaper driver with a more excursion. stereo integrity ht18 and Dayton 460ho are two relatively low cost options.


for of those in ported cabs tuned to around 20hz would be a decent setup.


the subs that you have just can't hit anywhere near the spl that you are talking about without distorting/compressing--simply not enough rig for the gig.

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post #7 of 28 Old 07-25-2014, 09:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
the subs that you have just can't hit anywhere near the spl that you are talking about without distorting/compressing--simply not enough rig for the gig.
Got it. What would most recommend for pressurizing a 2340cuft room? Would 4 15's work? Also, my room is pre wired with coax/rca for plate amps. I know that definitely wouldn't be the cheapest way to go but other than price are there any negatives to plate amps?
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post #8 of 28 Old 07-25-2014, 09:37 PM
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since the unamplified signal is running over a long distance, it is easier to get noise in the line.


2 ported 18's like I mentioned would be a great start. big ported cabs. 4 would be great, period.


an arrangement like jbrown15 has on his front wall is almost ideal for killing/not exciting room modes. corners may work too. mid wall points might also work.


LTD-M18 Sub Build

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post #9 of 28 Old 07-25-2014, 09:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
since the unamplified signal is running over a long distance, it is easier to get noise in the line.


2 ported 18's like I mentioned would be a great start. big ported cabs. 4 would be great, period.


an arrangement like jbrown15 has on his front wall is almost ideal for killing/not exciting room modes. corners may work too. mid wall points might also work.


LTD-M18 Sub Build
Im going to read this over. Thank you.

AG
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post #10 of 28 Old 07-25-2014, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aginhouse View Post
Got it. What would most recommend for pressurizing a 2340cuft room? Would 4 15's work? Also, my room is pre wired with coax/rca for plate amps. I know that definitely wouldn't be the cheapest way to go but other than price are there any negatives to plate amps?
4- 15" or 2- 18". Four will handle room nodes better.
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post #11 of 28 Old 07-26-2014, 02:01 AM
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Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post
Yes. They sound great for music as any good sub will . you can make mine with one sheet of MDF and driver is 170 on parts express. Its a 21" cube so not too big in living room. Here is the cutlist
Hey mate, thinking of building a couple of these but have a few questions about your cut list. Do the back rails follow the port rails, so 2 back rails? You've listed 3 cuts for the Double Baffle & Bracing, I can see the front, the panel behind to recess and support the sub but where's the third? What thickness is the MDF?

Thanks.
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post #12 of 28 Old 07-26-2014, 04:24 AM
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Originally Posted by farr3ll View Post
Hey mate, thinking of building a couple of these but have a few questions about your cut list. Do the back rails follow the port rails, so 2 back rails? You've listed 3 cuts for the Double Baffle & Bracing, I can see the front, the panel behind to recess and support the sub but where's the third? What thickness is the MDF?

Thanks.
Yes 2 back rails, the bracing piece is the third and its not shown in sketchup. It goes right in middle. MDF ranges in thickness so you have to measure it where you buy it. Then make some minor changes if its not 3/4".
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post #13 of 28 Old 07-27-2014, 01:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post
4- 15" or 2- 18". Four will handle room nodes better.

If I decided to go with 4 15's I would probably build sealed boxes since my majority use would be for music. Any issues with this choice? Can I still get low enough response for movies?


Any recommendations on 15" drivers? Are the Dayton HO's a decent choice?
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post #14 of 28 Old 07-27-2014, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by aginhouse View Post
If I decided to go with 4 15's I would probably build sealed boxes since my majority use would be for music. Any issues with this choice? Can I still get low enough response for movies?


Any recommendations on 15" drivers? Are the Dayton HO's a decent choice?
The sealed boxes won't give you tighter bass for music. You will be losing 6-10 dB's of SPL from 18-35hz which is important for movies. Here is Achaea quote about this

"Skip sealed until you can get more than 4. 4 sealed budget drivers or even something like the UXL-18 in a sealed enclosure will get handedly beaten by a couple UXL-18's in a martycube equivalent (or my captivator equivalent) for 99% of the movie content out there.
I compared four sealed SI vs. two of my JTR Captivators at my old place. I much preferred the Caps. However - I prefer eight SI sealed to two Caps. Breakeven at 6ish?"

Now others disagree about this but that's why its a forum

The Dayton 15" ho is good for sealed as well.
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post #15 of 28 Old 08-05-2014, 07:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Gentlemen, Im looking at floor space and still weighing all my options. Would there be any foreseeable issues with building Marty Subs and turning them up on their end? In other words have the driver facing the ceiling(or floor) but only having a 24" foot print? If this is possible then Im only out 3 inches from building the 15" cube. But it seems like I read somewhere that there was an issue with 18" drivers starting to sag over time???
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post #16 of 28 Old 08-05-2014, 07:45 AM
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Gentlemen, Im looking at floor space and still weighing all my options. Would there be any foreseeable issues with building Marty Subs and turning them up on their end? In other words have the driver facing the ceiling(or floor) but only having a 24" foot print? If this is possible then Im only out 3 inches from building the 15" cube. But it seems like I read somewhere that there was an issue with 18" drivers starting to sag over time???
The Vertical Marty Build Thread might be of interest. He has the driver facing forward and the port facing up.
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post #17 of 28 Old 08-05-2014, 07:52 AM - Thread Starter
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The Vertical Marty Build Thread might be of interest. He has the driver facing forward and the port facing up.
Thanks Andy, I'll give it a read.

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post #18 of 28 Old 09-05-2014, 03:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes. They sound great for music as any good sub will . you can make mine with one sheet of MDF and driver is 170 on parts express. Its a 21" cube so not too big in living room. Here is the cutlist
Chalugadp, Im getting closer to pulling the trigger and trying to build 4 of these. i just inherited a table saw and really getting the itch. Quick question. Is it possible to build this same box but have the port out the side instead of being on the same side as the driver? I would like these to front fire but port to the side. I currently have my ported subs turned around because I get better base tone when they are facing away but more tactile feel when they are facing me. Thoughts?
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post #19 of 28 Old 09-05-2014, 04:08 PM
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I'm not Donny, but I can tell you confidently a couple things. If you change the cross-sectional area of the port, you've changed it seriously. The length would have to be re-figured and the port resonances could become problems, as well as port air velocity. This is a substantial thing to reconsider.

I'm not sure which particular sub that is, but there is an easy side-ported sub that you might like. Easy to buy; easy to build (especially from the kit); and easy enough to copy, if that's your preference. http://www.diysoundgroup.com/ported-...tonehenge.html
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post #20 of 28 Old 09-05-2014, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by aginhouse View Post
Chalugadp, Im getting closer to pulling the trigger and trying to build 4 of these. i just inherited a table saw and really getting the itch. Quick question. Is it possible to build this same box but have the port out the side instead of being on the same side as the driver? I would like these to front fire but port to the side. I currently have my ported subs turned around because I get better base tone when they are facing away but more tactile feel when they are facing me. Thoughts?
You can have the port going out the back section of the top, not the side.
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post #21 of 28 Old 09-05-2014, 04:40 PM
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"Breakeven at 6ish?"


based purely on the numbers, that seems about right 3:1 sealed to ported, all other things equal, for the lower end.


if floor space is an issue, a tall cab with 2-3 15"s could work. designing something isn't that big of a deal if you are comfortable building something that is non-standard.

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post #22 of 28 Old 09-06-2014, 12:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok thank you Fred and Chalugadp. Back section out the top would be perfect. Anyway to see a design mockup of this? Im guessing the port would start in the front, runs along the bottom and up the back wall?

LTD...Not sure I follow?
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post #23 of 28 Old 09-06-2014, 12:48 PM
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oh, all I was saying is that 2-3 drivers could be built into one cab in order to conserve floor space. this pic show an upward firing port, but it could be out the bottom or wherever. to my knowledge, no 'plans' exist for such a thing, so it would be a custom.



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post #24 of 28 Old 09-06-2014, 01:27 PM
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Ok thank you Fred and Chalugadp. Back section out the top would be perfect. Anyway to see a design mockup of this? Im guessing the port would start in the front, runs along the bottom and up the back wall?

LTD...Not sure I follow?
Yeah , basically reverses port layout. Port 15" along bottom and up the full back .
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post #25 of 28 Old 09-07-2014, 05:54 PM - Thread Starter
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oh, all I was saying is that 2-3 drivers could be built into one cab in order to conserve floor space. this pic show an upward firing port, but it could be out the bottom or wherever. to my knowledge, no 'plans' exist for such a thing, so it would be a custom.


Awesome. Thank you both.
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post #26 of 28 Old 09-07-2014, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by aginhouse View Post
Chalugadp, Im getting closer to pulling the trigger and trying to build 4 of these. i just inherited a table saw and really getting the itch. Quick question. Is it possible to build this same box but have the port out the side instead of being on the same side as the driver? I would like these to front fire but port to the side. I currently have my ported subs turned around because I get better base tone when they are facing away but more tactile feel when they are facing me. Thoughts?
You can just build the box as originally laid out, and put the driver on the side of the box. So the side becomes the front, and you don't change the layout of the port. You'd just have to adjust slightly for the double baffle.
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post #27 of 28 Old 09-08-2014, 07:43 AM - Thread Starter
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You can just build the box as originally laid out, and put the driver on the side of the box. So the side becomes the front, and you don't change the layout of the port. You'd just have to adjust slightly for the double baffle.
Gotcha, although I think I like the port out the top rear even better. That being said, wouldn't I still just build the box the same but use what would typically be the bottom as my baffle?

Also, looking at the picture again...Chalugadp, are you using an XLR cable? Hard to see?
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post #28 of 28 Old 09-08-2014, 09:38 AM
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Gotcha, although I think I like the port out the top rear even better. That being said, wouldn't I still just build the box the same but use what would typically be the bottom as my baffle?

Also, looking at the picture again...Chalugadp, are you using an XLR cable? Hard to see?
I have three subs. Two use xlr and one rca.
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