Can i build imax subs at home? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 30 Old 07-28-2014, 05:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Can i build imax subs at home?

so this pic i seen with those subs like that they look like lab15s I'm sure there not but what if i used lab15s like that in a ported box? right now i have 4 18ins dayton in a sealed box.. labs better then the daytons? or should i just put my 4 18s in a ported box?
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post #2 of 30 Old 07-28-2014, 05:41 PM
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You can build better than that, but similar. I did so with my 18s. Just balance out how much cubic footage you can spare and how low you want the tune. You can model it up in winisd or something similar. Which Daytons do you have?




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post #3 of 30 Old 07-28-2014, 05:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by notnyt View Post
You can build better than that, but similar. I did so with my 18s. Just balance out how much cubic footage you can spare and how low you want the tune. You can model it up in winisd or something similar. Which Daytons do you have?


Thats dopee! I have 4 of the dayton rs18ho i believe powered by a ep4000. Which do you have? And what is the tunning of that box? I was talking about building a ported box a while back but never had the B's to do it so i order 4 seald flatpacks from DIY soundgroup. But i want more output. I think tuning to 19hz is fine for me dont need lower maybe 15hz the lowest. How does that sound? Spl? Build thread?
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post #4 of 30 Old 07-28-2014, 05:55 PM
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Thats dopee! I have 4 of the dayton rs18ho i believe powered by a ep4000. Which do you have? And what is the tunning of that box? I was talking about building a ported box a while back but never had the B's to do it so i order 4 seald flatpacks from DIY soundgroup. But i want more output. I think tuning to 19hz is fine for me dont need lower maybe 15hz the lowest. How does that sound? Spl? Build thread?
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post #5 of 30 Old 07-28-2014, 06:03 PM
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You can certainly beat Imax subs at home. I'm surprised you aren't happy with 4 18's . Have you measured / tweaked what you have? At that level, your room is certainly effecting what your ears perceive, and measuring what you have is the only way to know what needs improvement. Room size and listening preferences are also critical, as well.

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post #6 of 30 Old 07-28-2014, 06:17 PM
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IMAX has a unique signature that's really strong in the midbass. Even when running 8 sealed 18s I didn't capture the same effect. I like IMAX especially the well designed ones. I'd just like that sound to extend down to 15hz or lower.
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post #7 of 30 Old 07-28-2014, 06:40 PM - Thread Starter
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one word WOW!!!!!!!
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post #8 of 30 Old 07-28-2014, 06:44 PM - Thread Starter
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You can certainly beat Imax subs at home. I'm surprised you aren't happy with 4 18's . Have you measured / tweaked what you have? At that level, your room is certainly effecting what your ears perceive, and measuring what you have is the only way to know what needs improvement. Room size and listening preferences are also critical, as well.
i mean it okay to the avg joe i guess but i would like it to be crazy!!! never measured need to get my self some gear and software! the room i have is huge!!! 45w X 20L X 9H and then opens to another space about 12L x 8W X 9H and then staircase on both sides on the room.
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post #9 of 30 Old 07-28-2014, 06:48 PM - Thread Starter
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IMAX has a unique signature that's really strong in the midbass. Even when running 8 sealed 18s I didn't capture the same effect. I like IMAX especially the well designed ones. I'd just like that sound to extend down to 15hz or lower.
i also like midbass that feeling in your chest type thing! 15hz i think is perfect for tuning for me a least.. unless i just add another 4 18in sealed!! have a total of 8! or just port them i think I'm a fan of ported subs more then sealed.
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post #10 of 30 Old 07-28-2014, 06:51 PM
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one word WOW!!!!!!!
Here,

Pair of Dayton RS18HO in 25 cubic foot enclosure tuned to 17hz with 1000 watts excursion limited. 4th order BW HP at 15hz. You can go smaller but lose some spl. Just a model similar to the imax boxes. The port will be easy with these, I just roughed it there.






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post #11 of 30 Old 07-28-2014, 06:54 PM
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And here it is compared to sealed. Lofty gains.

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post #12 of 30 Old 07-28-2014, 07:02 PM - Thread Starter
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And here it is compared to sealed. Lofty gains.

thanks man very cool! now for giggles what about 8 sealed? i have to to make the car audio place near me build an enclosure they said about 200$ for the build. for each enclosure so 400 total. wish i could afford those ultras now. but for the price of the daytons you can't beat them there great subs!!
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post #13 of 30 Old 07-28-2014, 07:04 PM
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thanks man very cool! now for giggles what about 8 sealed? i have to to make the car audio place near me build an enclosure they said about 200$ for the build. for each enclosure so 400 total. wish i could afford those ultras now. but for the price of the daytons you can't beat them there great subs!!
That's 2 ported compared to 2 sealed. Add 12db to go from 2 drivers to 8 drivers, assuming you still have enough power. I didn't save the ISD files so not recreating atm.


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post #14 of 30 Old 07-28-2014, 07:14 PM - Thread Starter
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That's 2 ported compared to 2 sealed. Add 12db to go from 2 drivers to 8 drivers, assuming you still have enough power. I didn't save the ISD files so not recreating atm.
Gotcha think the ported way to go is cheaper. 2 enclosures i should have enough output then i can add 4 more every year! And i dont need as much power with ported subs?
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post #15 of 30 Old 07-28-2014, 07:29 PM
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So, how deep can the speakers go?

'Our minus 3dB point is 20Hz. Yeah, it is very low. The loudspeakers, both the sub-bass and the full-range systems, are custom-designed and manufactured by IMAX. They are designed to fit our theatres. So we have separate systems, depending upon the room and its volume. We have different systems for different-sized rooms. The rooms are acoustically treated and we have a proprietary acoustical standard that works with our post-production audio mastering standard.

'We manage our sub-bass differently. All our speakers are full-range, even the surrounds. The amplifiers are made to our specifications, custom-designed for our environment.'



And the payoff is never certain: Some observers contend that a generation has already been trained to be content with the small screen.
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post #16 of 30 Old 07-29-2014, 05:27 AM
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Being in the DIY section of this forum "very low," would be -3db 10hz. I am sure most of the members here in this section of the forum can blow candles out at 2ft 23hz in almost every ported design or Horned design.

I remember Imax at chicago with DSL equipment was hitting around 15hz I believe with authority. That being said being said if you wanted the full IMAX dynamics I think your best bet is to copy Not's system in total. Maybe just four ported 18's but make sure to get similar mains as his. Thats where most people, I feel, are missing the big cinema experience. Most HT's in the DIY section have better extension subs but are missing the dynamics from 60-280hz. A dual 15" setup with capable subs would not be missing anything dynamically.

I love the Imax theaters but it has mainly been for the image from the screens. I dont have a dedicated room so I still go and see movies there when I can.


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post #17 of 30 Old 07-29-2014, 05:51 AM
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pretty sure the imax subwoofers are using Lab12's not 15. Interesting that they went with multiple 12's instead of the 18's they used to go with. Very low output in the acoustic volume of a commercial theatre vs a very small HT room are 2 different things. like comparing a car interior volume to a larger HT. To get full output at 20hz is impressive. What would the Imax subs sound like in a typical HT? I know the ultimate solution seems to be very very low 10hz type thing but I know I kinda like the idea of a pro sub (or pro woofer) that can get down 18 - 20 hz range along with ultimate upper bass output vs ultimate very low that can almost do pro upper bass if that makes any sense. Seems the Lab 12 -15 are pretty good woofers at a good price.
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post #18 of 30 Old 07-29-2014, 05:59 AM - Thread Starter
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pretty sure the imax subwoofers are using Lab12's not 15. Interesting that they went with multiple 12's instead of the 18's they used to go with. Very low output in the acoustic volume of a commercial theatre vs a very small HT room are 2 different things. like comparing a car interior volume to a larger HT. To get full output at 20hz is impressive. What would the Imax subs sound like in a typical HT? I know the ultimate solution seems to be very very low 10hz type thing but I know I kinda like the idea of a pro sub (or pro woofer) that can get down 18 - 20 hz range along with ultimate upper bass output vs ultimate very low that can almost do pro upper bass if that makes any sense. Seems the Lab 12 -15 are pretty good woofers at a good price.
YESS! I feel the same! Lab 12s are pretty cheap and i can get 16 of those for 2400$ imagine that in ported enclosure tuned to 15hz!!!!! Deff something to think about! Might have to do a simulation on that see what type of spl i can get.
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post #19 of 30 Old 07-29-2014, 08:41 AM
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Just to clarify some things, you say you feel like you aren't getting enough midbass. Midbass is between 50 hz and about 150 hz. Some call it "chest punch" or "kick". You get this vibration in your chest from it. The low end of mid bass is all from your subs, and the high end of mid bass is from your speakers (or mid bass sub). Changing your subs from sealed to ported doesn't change 50-150 hz at all. Have you tried eq'ing your 50-150 hz frequency to get more mid bass? Four 15" subs will give you quite amazing mid bass punch in most rooms if they're set up right.

Changing to ported will give you nice low end gains for low bass in electronic music, and for many movies, but it's not adding chest punch.

Also, blowing out candles with a sub isn't impressive, my $200.00 polk can do that haha :P.


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post #20 of 30 Old 07-29-2014, 08:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassment View Post
Just to clarify some things, you say you feel like you aren't getting enough midbass. Midbass is between 50 hz and about 150 hz. Some call it "chest punch" or "kick". You get this vibration in your chest from it. The low end of mid bass is all from your subs, and the high end of mid bass is from your speakers (or mid bass sub). Changing your subs from sealed to ported doesn't change 50-150 hz at all. Have you tried eq'ing your 50-150 hz frequency to get more mid bass? Four 15" subs will give you quite amazing mid bass punch in most rooms if they're set up right.

Changing to ported will give you nice low end gains for low bass in electronic music, and for many movies, but it's not adding chest punch.

Also, blowing out candles with a sub isn't impressive, my $200.00 polk can do that haha :P.

you are right makes sense.. but I do prefer ported subs to sealed.. need to upgrade speakers which I think will satisfy me a lil more. prob going to go with porting my 4 18in subs when I get the money. going to Mexico tomorrow so have to pay for trip first.
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post #21 of 30 Old 07-29-2014, 09:42 AM - Thread Starter
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by the way came across this today


play this thru your system in dts i had a ball!!
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post #22 of 30 Old 07-29-2014, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassment View Post
Just to clarify some things, you say you feel like you aren't getting enough midbass. Midbass is between 50 hz and about 150 hz. Some call it "chest punch" or "kick". You get this vibration in your chest from it. The low end of mid bass is all from your subs, and the high end of mid bass is from your speakers (or mid bass sub). Changing your subs from sealed to ported doesn't change 50-150 hz at all. Have you tried eq'ing your 50-150 hz frequency to get more mid bass? Four 15" subs will give you quite amazing mid bass punch in most rooms if they're set up right.

Changing to ported will give you nice low end gains for low bass in electronic music, and for many movies, but it's not adding chest punch.

Also, blowing out candles with a sub isn't impressive, my $200.00 polk can do that haha :P.
That's normally what you'd think, however after going ported, even after eqing flat, I noticed more tactile feedback.


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post #23 of 30 Old 07-29-2014, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post
And here it is compared to sealed. Lofty gains.

Quick question, if one listens at low volumes, say -15/-30 from reference, is the ported vs sealed ULF performance still the same as what the graph shows? In other words, which one has better ULF at -15/-30?
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post #24 of 30 Old 07-29-2014, 10:07 AM
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Quick question, if one listens at low volumes, say -15/-30 from reference, is the ported vs sealed ULF performance still the same as what the graph shows? In other words, which one has better ULF at -15/-30?
That's native response. It should be linear, but you can also EQ the sealed enclosure. At lower levels the equal loudness curve will be a large factor as well, rendering any comparison mostly pointless.


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post #25 of 30 Old 07-29-2014, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post
That's normally what you'd think, however after going ported, even after eqing flat, I noticed more tactile feedback.
Did going to ported increase tactile feedback over the sub's whole frequency range, or specifically mid bass? I wonder what the difference would be if you weren't on a concrete floor.

You still had crazy mid bass before you switched from sealed to ported though, didn't you?


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post #26 of 30 Old 07-29-2014, 10:35 AM
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Did going to ported increase tactile feedback over the sub's whole frequency range, or specifically mid bass? I wonder what the difference would be if you weren't on a concrete floor.

You still had crazy mid bass before you switched from sealed to ported though, didn't you?

Hard to say. You can just feel it more now. Probably over a large portion of the frequency range. I had others compare as well and they also could, including the wife, and she normally can't tell much of a difference after I change things.


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post #27 of 30 Old 07-29-2014, 10:46 AM
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Large Ported Dayton HO18's


many different form factors to choose from. hundreds of builds. just figure out what general shape you are looking for and it can probably be done.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #28 of 30 Old 07-29-2014, 04:15 PM
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this is a neat interactive frequency chart.....
http://www.independentrecording.net/...in_display.htm
(static image below, the link above is live)

Mike R,P.E. clickable DIY hot links:

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post #29 of 30 Old 07-29-2014, 05:41 PM
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That's a great chart, now they just need to include where the "beat drops" in the dubstep remixes :P

Interesting how it appears nothing on the chart extends up to 20khz. I guess it isn't a surprise since the average person can't hear that high.

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post #30 of 30 Old 07-29-2014, 09:08 PM
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until recently, mostly in the 40-50hz ballpark. now it is more common for hits down around 30hz and in some cases, down past 20hz. if that is what you like then really nailing it from 25-50hz is where you want to focus.

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