Another newbie needing help - AVS Forum
DIY Speakers and Subs > Another newbie needing help
berstuck's Avatar berstuck 11:31 PM 07-29-2014
Ok, I'm trying to plan out my subs for my living room theater. First things first, being that it's a living room, I'm limited to the front wall for sub placement. I had initially wanted to do an IB sub install, but I don't like any of the locations available to me. If I was to put them on either side of my center channel speaker, it would require moving the washer and dryer. I don't know how much I'd have to spend on hiring an electrician and a plumber, but I doubt my wife would be to keen on the idea. Plus I've never heard and IB system and I have no idea if it would meet my needs better than another type of sub system.

So I managed to talk my wife into letting me purchase 3 JBL 3252n speakers. They are currently on the front wall. She hates them lol, but has agreed to let me fill up the rest of the space with subs. So long as my theater project doesn't encroach on the room. Which means inwall surrounds, but back to the point at hand. I would ideally like a sub system that could keep up with my mains, plus be able to run 8 to 12db hot. That's not going to happen on my budget. I won't be buying any of this for a few months at least regardless, but when it comes time to purchase I don't want to spend more than maybe 2 grand. That will probably be pushing it, but again I'm just trying to get ideas together and plan. I was initially going to spend more money on the sub system, but FOH (Kevin) has shown me the light in regards to room treatments. So I'm going to figure out some corner bass traps around the same time I'm doing the sub project.

I think I've ruled out sealed for now. I'm under the impression that to get a lot of output will require putting more money than I want to spend into this project. So with IB and sealed out of the equation it comes down to ported vs horn. I have never built anything out of wood before. I own almost no tools. I tried sketchup the other day and I suck at it. I will continue to try and practice as I get time though. I'm also having trouble modeling what I want to do in winisd. When I compare my models to chalugadp's graphs for the martysub variants they don't look anything at all alike. So I'm asking for help from the community here. I'm really leaning towards ported right now, because I don't believe I'll have the skill necessary to pull off a horn build.

The space I have available at max is 48"H x 40"W x 24"D. I want to build two identical subs. Ideally if the subs were no taller than the jbl's, about 43", and no deeper, about 18", that would be perfect. But I can go to my max dimensions if needed. I'm well aware of the bang for buck drivers like the dayton, si, and ixl. If it is worth it in terms of output I wouldn't mind going with say the uxl, or even the ftw since it is only about 100 dollars more. Although I've noticed sub availability changes throughout the year. I'm on a concrete slab foundation and ULF is probably not a worthwhile goal of this project. My mains have really good output in room to around 40hz or so. I don't think I need too much output from the subs much above 60hz or so. What I think I would like is solid output from the mid teens or so and up. Ideally being able to run the bass 12db hot and have 6db or so of headroom would be nice. Of course that means 133db with the volume set at reference. I don't know if that is realistic or not. I think that covers everything, thanks to anyone who wants to take the time and help me plan this out.

chalugadp's Avatar chalugadp 11:47 PM 07-29-2014
Those are ltd02 graphs. I just post them. Don't want to take credit from him

Two large ported cabs with uxl18 drivers will go to around 125-128 dB's , depending on how there arranged and where in the room and how big your room is. They will eat up most of your 2k budget with drivers, amps, wood, cables, etc.

Have you heard 125 dB's of bass ? For me its too much. I give at about 118 dB's.
berstuck's Avatar berstuck 02:13 PM 07-30-2014
I was thinking a couple ported cabs with either uxl or ftw. Problem is I have no idea how to model it correctly. Maybe when I get home tonight I'll post what I came up with. In winisd am I supposed to just select the tune and it spits out the correct port dimensions? Also would dual si 18's out perform either of the ist drivers in a 20 cubic foot box?
chalugadp's Avatar chalugadp 02:27 PM 07-30-2014
Just give the measurments of the two biggest cabs you can fit in the space the only thing you need to adgudy is the port lengh for tunning
Bassment's Avatar Bassment 02:35 PM 07-30-2014
in winisd if you select box size and tuning freq it will automatically generate a port size. You can adjust the port dimensions and then the tuning freq and it will set the length for you. The easiest and cheapest port is just a large slot port along the side or bottom of the enclosure, like 3" high.
rlj5242's Avatar rlj5242 03:17 PM 07-30-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by berstuck View Post
.... Ideally if the subs were no taller than the jbl's, about 43", and no deeper, about 18", that would be perfect.....
I haven't built anything in quite a while so I was looking seriously at the Cyclops - CYCLOPS....a new LTD02 design . The only change for me would be every piece that is 14.5", increase it to 16". This would give it a 17.5" depth which is perfect for your constraints. I re-calculated the tuning and it stays very close to the original design.

What am I installing? In one, a pair of 15" TC-3000's - https://web.archive.org/web/20070402...com/tc3000.htm In the other, this custom 18" - http://www.caraudioclassifieds.org/f...8-spencer.html
berstuck's Avatar berstuck 11:13 PM 07-30-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by berstuck View Post
The space I have available at max is 48"H x 40"W x 24"D. I want to build two identical subs. Ideally if the subs were no taller than the jbl's, about 43", and no deeper, about 18", that would be perfect. But I can go to my max dimensions if needed.
Ok so I moved the speakers completely into the corners and remeasured. It gives me max of 48x48x24 each side. Basically I can do 2 giant subs. Doesn't mean I have to, but I can. I keep trying and failing with winisd, and the more I think about the more I'm certain I can't model my own sub and come up with my own cutlists and all that jazz. But I also measured in the garage tonight and I could move the washer and dryer over to another wall, and it would allow me to put an ib manifold on either side of my center channel speaker. My hot water heater would be flanked on either side by manifolds though and I'm not sure if that's ok. So between 4 ficar ib3 18's powered by an inuke 6000, 4 minimarty's with si 18's powered by an inuke 6000 or 2 3000's(whatever's better), and 2 gjallarhorns with uxl's powered by an inuke 6000 what would give me the most output?? I saw another build log and the 2 gjallarhorn's would be the hardest to build I'm sure, but it would still be easier than designing my own sub system from scratch. The ib install would look the best, and the minimarty's would probably be the easiest for me to build. I'm not opposed to a challenge, I just know my limits, and I think sticking to a known design is best for my first time building anything!
chalugadp's Avatar chalugadp 11:19 PM 07-30-2014
I built a 4' by 4' by 2 ' ported sub

Uses a ftw 21 and is tuned to 13 hz.
121 dB's at 15 hz and 126 dB's at 30-90 hz. Two of those would be killer. Not hard to build but they are huge. 2200 watts.
notnyt's Avatar notnyt 11:31 PM 07-30-2014
If 2K is your budget, I'd wait and see if the um18-22's materialize next week. If so, and the specs are good, You can get 4 for about a grand, an NU6000DSP or two, and wood. Two 18s per box, tune to 15-17hz, take up all the space you can.

This is probably one of the most cost effective bass setups that will be able to dig that low. It's fortunate you have the amount of space available that you do.
berstuck's Avatar berstuck 12:32 AM 07-31-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post
I built a 4' by 4' by 2 ' ported sub

Uses a ftw 21 and is tuned to 13 hz.
121 dB's at 15 hz and 126 dB's at 30-90 hz. Two of those would be killer. Not hard to build but they are huge. 2200 watts.
Thanks for that, I'll add it in as a consideration. When you say 2200 watts where are you getting that number from? I thought the inuke tested out to about 1800 into 4 ohms with a 20hz load.
chalugadp's Avatar chalugadp 12:35 AM 07-31-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by berstuck View Post
Thanks for that, I'll add it in as a consideration. When you say 2200 watts where are you getting that number from? I thought the inuke tested out to about 1800 into 4 ohms with a 20hz load.
I get it from ltd02. for huge bass go with whatever notnyt says. he has experience in that a lot more then me. I'm reference and below guy
berstuck's Avatar berstuck 12:41 AM 07-31-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post
If 2K is your budget, I'd wait and see if the um18-22's materialize next week. If so, and the specs are good, You can get 4 for about a grand, an NU6000DSP or two, and wood. Two 18s per box, tune to 15-17hz, take up all the space you can.

This is probably one of the most cost effective bass setups that will be able to dig that low. It's fortunate you have the amount of space available that you do.
Does the ultimax perform that much better than the si18 to justify the cost difference. And would I be able to drop 4 of them into 4 of the minimarty enclosures and have it work out well? Btw thanks not, your build was one of the first I saw with the jbl pro cinema mains. It was the catalyst to my researching and buying the 3252n's. Couldn't be happier so far, so I definitely trust your advice here. My biggest concern is having something with a cutsheet already worked out for me to work with. I've never used any kind of saw or done any sort of woodworking. I also know no one who has. I trust in my ability to figure **** out, but I still want to take the safe route.
berstuck's Avatar berstuck 12:43 AM 07-31-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post
I get it from ltd02. for huge bass go with whatever notnyt says. he has experience in that a lot more then me. I'm reference and below guy
Just wanted to make sure it wasn't a different amp. Notnyt definitely has a reputation around here.
notnyt's Avatar notnyt 12:53 AM 07-31-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by berstuck View Post
Does the ultimax perform that much better than the si18 to justify the cost difference. And would I be able to drop 4 of them into 4 of the minimarty enclosures and have it work out well? Btw thanks not, your build was one of the first I saw with the jbl pro cinema mains. It was the catalyst to my researching and buying the 3252n's. Couldn't be happier so far, so I definitely trust your advice here. My biggest concern is having something with a cutsheet already worked out for me to work with. I've never used any kind of saw or done any sort of woodworking. I also know no one who has. I trust in my ability to figure **** out, but I still want to take the safe route.
The mini's are tuned a little higher than I'd recommend. They're great if you're limited on space, but you don't seem to be. I can make you a cut sheet and a design if you need, doesn't take too long. You could also build one of the countless other 18" enclosures and adjust port length as needed. The Ultimax drivers have stronger motors and lower vas, you can get away with a smaller enclosure. They look like they'll do great with a 16hz tune. That is, if they live up to their specs.
berstuck's Avatar berstuck 01:13 AM 07-31-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post
The mini's are tuned a little higher than I'd recommend. They're great if you're limited on space, but you don't seem to be. I can make you a cut sheet and a design if you need, doesn't take too long. You could also build one of the countless other 18" enclosures and adjust port length as needed. The Ultimax drivers have stronger motors and lower vas, you can get away with a smaller enclosure. They look like they'll do great with a 16hz tune. That is, if they live up to their specs.
The wall is 16 feet across, the only thing limiting my space right now is a propane heating stove. I got a plumber coming in the morning to cap off the gas line then I'm gonna patch up the holes and it's gone for good. So I have all 16 feet available. After the width of the speakers is figured in I got 56 inches on either side of the center. I don't want to go any wider than 48 or so though, so I have breathing room to move things a little. Plus I want to do some bass traps in the corners and if I don't have to pull the subs into the room a few inches to get around them that would be ideal. As for the cutsheet and design, that's an incredibly generous offer and I would gladly take you up on it.
notnyt's Avatar notnyt 01:16 AM 07-31-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by berstuck View Post
The wall is 16 feet across, the only thing limiting my space right now is a propane heating stove. I got a plumber coming in the morning to cap off the gas line then I'm gonna patch up the holes and it's gone for good. So I have all 16 feet available. After the width of the speakers is figured in I got 56 inches on either side of the center. I don't want to go any wider than 48 or so though, so I have breathing room to move things a little. Plus I want to do some bass traps in the corners and if I don't have to pull the subs into the room a few inches to get around them that would be ideal. As for the cutsheet and design, that's an incredibly generous offer and I would gladly take you up on it.
Send me a PM next week, we'll see if the UM18-22's are shipping =]
berstuck's Avatar berstuck 01:30 AM 07-31-2014
Thanks man, will do.
A9X-308's Avatar A9X-308 03:03 AM 08-02-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post
I built a 4' by 4' by 2 ' ported sub

Uses a ftw 21 and is tuned to 13 hz.
121 dB's at 15 hz and 126 dB's at 30-90 hz. Two of those would be killer. Not hard to build but they are huge. 2200 watts.
Do you have the details of this build? If the dB numbers you've given are measured, then they are a lot higher than the sim, so I presume you get a lot of room gain.

I'm asking because I now have 4 FTW21 and have taken the first pair out of the 'temp' boxes I'd built for them and are wondering how to utilise them best in my 1830cf room.
notnyt's Avatar notnyt 08:47 PM 08-10-2014
The Berstuck Box: 2xUM18-22 in 25 Cubic Feet at 16Hz

Now we wait for pics and measurements
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