Setting Inuke amp gains - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 74 Old 08-03-2014, 06:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Setting Inuke amp gains

I know there are more detailed articles but I asked a couple of people how to set gains on inuke amps for subs (others as well, i just own inukes) and ltd02 sent me a very logical explanation . I figured I'd make it a thread for others with the same question. Here's the steps :

the quick and dirty way is:
1. DISCONNECT your sub from the amp
2. get a bass heavy movie clip like War of the Worlds, Lone Survivor, Pacific Rim, etc.
3. play the track at full reference -0db on the avr ( make sure your speakers can handle this spl. If they can't turn volume up as high as speakers can play clean)
4. turn the gain on your amp up until the clip light comes on
5. if the clip light DOES NOT come on, increase your subwoofer/lfe trim until it does
6. if it still DOES NOT come on, you need a voltage increaser/bump box
7. if the clip light DOES come on, then your AVR have plenty of voltage the way it is set up
8. turn the amp gain down until the clip light only flickers when the track is played.
9. go back to your avr and turn the volume down
10. reconnect your sub
11. play the track and increase the subwoofer/lfe ON THE AVR if necessary leaving the gain knob on the amp alone
12. if that DOES NOT get you enough bass, then turn up gain on the amp by as little as possible because you will be eating into the amplifiers headroom trading off the possibility of clipping some signals for more spl on average.

Now I am sure something similar has been posted in many threads but its tough sometimes to find. Hope this helps someone.

Last edited by chalugadp; 08-05-2014 at 03:38 AM.
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post #2 of 74 Old 08-04-2014, 06:19 AM
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Excellent, easy to read thread! I am sure that this will help tons of people! The only thing that I see missing is where to set the subwoofer trim level in the receiver?
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post #3 of 74 Old 08-04-2014, 07:20 AM
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Would help to state where the inuke gain knob should be set at initially? 100%, 50%, 10%?
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post #4 of 74 Old 08-04-2014, 10:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kilteda4 View Post
Would help to state where the inuke gain knob should be set at initially? 100%, 50%, 10%?
Step. 4
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post #5 of 74 Old 08-04-2014, 10:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post
Excellent, easy to read thread! I am sure that this will help tons of people! The only thing that I see missing is where to set the subwoofer trim level in the receiver?
I asked Ltd about trim level and he said keep it around zero. Can tweak it up or down 1-2 db's. Better to have trim at zero and gains at 1/2 then trim at -7 and gains full.
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post #6 of 74 Old 08-04-2014, 11:57 AM
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Very nice.

Seems like there ought to be something more definitive on the input level.

What does "full power sine wave mean"?

Is there a test disc with max level (IIRC defined only for movie soundtracks, no standard for music discs)?

Noah
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post #7 of 74 Old 08-04-2014, 12:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
Very nice.

Seems like there ought to be something more definitive on the input level.

What does "full power sine wave mean"?

Is there a test disc with max level (IIRC defined only for movie soundtracks, no standard for music discs)?
I just put on wotw clip. If it can handle that it can handle anything .
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post #8 of 74 Old 08-04-2014, 02:14 PM
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This disc is handy if you don't have a PC (running rew or other signal generator) connected to your system

DIY Audio Test DVD

Full power = 0dBFS
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post #9 of 74 Old 08-04-2014, 02:23 PM
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"What does "full power sine wave mean"?"


unclipped, -0dB "full scale", signal.


technically, you would want to consider the additive effects of re-directed bass, whether or not it is correlated, how many channels, and all the rest of it. this was the "quick and dirty guide" to just help some folks get going.

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post #10 of 74 Old 08-04-2014, 03:07 PM
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Step 0) Grab a pen and paper, you will need it in the future to remember your optimal electronics settings, specifically the knob positions and gain values. (If you EVER exceed them after calibration you WILL have risk of clipping.)

Step 2) Disable all existing EQ's and XO's in the AVR and Amp. The whole point of these steps is to optimize your electronics, not your speakers/subs.

13) Write down the knob positions and gain values as mentioned in Step 0.
14) After you re-enable the EQ, you need to perform the whole procedure all over again; and write down these secondary knob positions and gain values; this is especially important if you apply massive amounts of boost or cut, or like tweaking your system a lot.
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post #11 of 74 Old 08-04-2014, 03:11 PM
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You should mention that the whole point of this is to minimise noise and distortion while also ensuring that maximum power can be delivered to the speaker/sub system;
and that this can be done to any amp/system that has a clip indicator, not just the inuke.
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post #12 of 74 Old 08-04-2014, 03:38 PM
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It is also important to never clip the input indicator, or have the input indicator clip before the output does. So you have to watch for that too.
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post #13 of 74 Old 08-04-2014, 03:49 PM
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After doing this calibration it is basically saying... you are gonna be sending all the watts the amp can produce into the speaker system when the AVR is at 0db with bass heavy movie/music.
The optimal gain structure is not the same thing as the most-optimal power curve the system can ACTUALLY handle, it is entirely possible to cook the speakers before the AVR reaches 0db (potentially).

The combination of the two is extra dangerous if you take the advice in Step 11.
Thus I wouldn't recommend step 11. This would be the amount of "hotness" you are adding to the system beyond what the amp can handle at 0db, and is risky if you forget about it by mistake.

It would be better to apply a proper DEQ shelf boost inside the amp and leave the AVR alone, as it intelligently avoids clipping while still boosting the signal up until 0db, and thus is much less risky.

In many cases for Step 11 you will have to reduce the gain of the amp, depending on how beefy or efficient your speakers/subs are; and that should be done at the amp, not the AVR.

If you need to boost it after the DEQ, then that is a good indication that you don't have enough subwoofers or could be underpowered; not enough to reach 0db while also avoiding clipping/overheating with the curve you prefer at least...
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post #14 of 74 Old 08-04-2014, 04:17 PM - Thread Starter
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The point of this thread is quick and easy . Using deq is not easy for many.

Read first sentence of thread, it talks about other amps.

This way isn't only way of course . But it serves a purpose . You wont be clipping red a lot and you wont be leaving Watts on the table.

Just like my rew for inuke this is a starting point for new people. Once your at the advanced stage Shawn is I am sure you can tweak it better.
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post #15 of 74 Old 08-04-2014, 04:42 PM
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This is what I do and it works well. The last time I set my inuke with a voltage meter.

This is all good until you run audyssey. Unless you turn your amps down , at least on my Denon, it will set your lfe trim to -7 or so. You can get around it my playing with amp levels until audyssey sets trim around -0. Once audyssey is calibrated, turn your amps to the level you found by following the above steps

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
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post #16 of 74 Old 08-04-2014, 05:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sslv2pwned View Post
This is what I do and it works well. The last time I set my inuke with a voltage meter.

This is all good until you run audyssey. Unless you turn your amps down , at least on my Denon, it will set your lfe trim to -7 or so. You can get around it my playing with amp levels until audyssey sets trim around -0. Once audyssey is calibrated, turn your amps to the level you found by following the above steps

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This is why I love my umc200. No audyssey, I manually peq and no effects to my sub unless I do it.
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post #17 of 74 Old 08-04-2014, 06:06 PM
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"Thus I wouldn't recommend step 11..."


it's ok, but it should be noted that will eat into headroom as well, similar to turning up the gain on the amp itself.


if you want to take a stab at writing up a comprehensive guide for "advanced" users, I'd be happy to contribute if/how I can...
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post #18 of 74 Old 08-04-2014, 06:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
"Thus I wouldn't recommend step 11..."


it's ok, but it should be noted that will eat into headroom as well, similar to turning up the gain on the amp itself.


if you want to take a stab at writing up a comprehensive guide for "advanced" users, I'd be happy to contribute if/how I can...
If you guys create an advanced one i can add it just below beginners in first post. Cool to have both
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post #19 of 74 Old 08-04-2014, 11:19 PM
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If you do use REW to generate a sine wave, what level should REW be set to? I have read a lot about -20dbfs?

So if you have your trims set to 0, and the main volume set to -0, what do you set the sine wave too, and why?

I have never understood what dbfs is, and when or why to change it.
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post #20 of 74 Old 08-05-2014, 12:17 AM
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Chaluga and Bass

I really dont see the need to jump through hoops like this. What is wrong with setting the LFE/Sub trim a 0db and then turning up the amp gain until the sub reaches the desired level in respect to the main speaker? ( just like you would set any other active sub)

If that doesent supply enough LFE/Sub voltage, then turn up the LFE/Sub trim, and if that still isn't enough get a bump box.
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post #21 of 74 Old 08-05-2014, 12:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by splotten View Post
Chaluga and Bass

I really dont see the need to jump through hoops like this. What is wrong with setting the LFE/Sub trim a 0db and then turning up the amp gain until the sub reaches the desired level in respect to the main speaker? ( just like you would set any other active sub)

If that doesent supply enough LFE/Sub voltage, then turn up the LFE/Sub trim, and if that still isn't enough get a bump box.
I don't think it's jumping through hoops. I followed the steps in 5 minutes. I am not a pro in this area.
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post #22 of 74 Old 08-05-2014, 01:05 AM
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OK. Then let me rephrase: When you are done with step 12 you still have to set the correct level in respect to the other speakers and thereby undo step 1 - 12? I simply dont see what is achieved.
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post #23 of 74 Old 08-05-2014, 01:25 AM - Thread Starter
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I set the bass so I get maximum bass out of my inuke/driver combo. On heavy bass scenes I don't want my amp clipping red sustained or only having two lights on. (Wouldnt two lights on for regular to small sub mean leaving spl on the table ?) For every person on here who has 6 or more subs there is 100 who have 2 or less.

I want maximum clean spl around reference. Once I have bass established then I set other speakers to match. For me that means with my normal alpha minions speakers the trim is at +3. With Joe's 228s i am borrowing the trim was -2.

if i am wrong then please correct me. My only intention is to learn and help others. I get dozens of PM's a week asking for advice from people not inquiring about flatpacks. I also try to give advice to those who do order from me.
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post #24 of 74 Old 08-05-2014, 01:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post
I set the bass so I get maximum bass out of my inuke/driver combo. On heavy bass scenes I don't want my amp clipping red sustained or only having two lights on. (Wouldnt two lights on for regular to small sub mean leaving spl on the table ?) For every person on here who has 6 or more subs there is 100 who have 2 or less.

I want maximum clean spl around reference. Once I have bass established then I set other speakers to match. For me that means with my normal alpha minions speakers the trim is at +3. With Joe's 228s i am borrowing the trim was -2.

if i am wrong then please correct me. My only intention is to learn and help others. I get dozens of PM's a week asking for advice from people not inquiring about flatpacks. I also try to give advice to those who do order from me.
I'm not sure I'm following you. I read that your goal is to be able to set you AVRs Master volume at 0db and at that level be able to get maximum -sub -performance and be sure to not clip the power amp.

That is fine of course but that then assumes that you set all the other trims in accordance to the sub (or you would need to undo 1-12) and that all the other speakers are at least as capable as the sub (otherwise you cant go to 0db on MV). Now this is only tested with a stereo signal. IMO you cant be sure what happens with at surround track and possibly redirected bass and you cant be sure what happens when you apply positive gain EQ. Also if you run Audyssey (or similar) after this you will mess it all up anyway.

Last edited by splotten; 08-05-2014 at 02:01 AM.
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post #25 of 74 Old 08-05-2014, 02:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by splotten View Post
I'm not sure I'm following you. I read that your goal is to be able to set you AVRs Master volume at 0db and at that level be able to get maximum -sub -performance and be sure to not clip the power amp.

That is fine of course but that then assumes that you set all the other trims in accordance to the sub (or you would need to undo 1-12) and that all the other speakers are at least as capable as the sub (otherwise you cant go to 0db on MV). Now this is only tested with a stereo signal. IMO you cant be sure what happens with at surround track and possibly redirected bass and you cant be sure what happens when you apply positive gain EQ. Also if you run Audyssey (or similar) after this you will mess it all up anyway.
Yes your correct that all other speakers need to be capable. For those with seos or cd speakers( a pretty high percentage in diy section ) your ears give out before speaker does.

Not sure about stereo signal. I run test tone with my umc200 for each of 5 speakers. I calibrate with spl meter one speaker at a time.

Not sure about redirected bass. I don't use audyssey either. my main goal is to not fry my amp, yet still make it earn it's money.

if my sub can play wotw at reference of avr I will have headroom for virtually any other piece and nothing will get ruined. I rarely leave bass trim alone. My umc200 remote has a handy up/down trim button. Sometimes I like bass balanced. Sometimes late at night I turn it down 2-3 dbs. Sometimes some movies/ tv shows need 3dbs more bass in my opinion.
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post #26 of 74 Old 08-05-2014, 02:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post
Yes your correct that all other speakers need to be capable. For those with seos or cd speakers( a pretty high percentage in diy section ) your ears give out before speaker does.

Not sure about stereo signal. I run test tone with my umc200 for each of 5 speakers. I calibrate with spl meter one speaker at a time.

Not sure about redirected bass. I don't use audyssey either. my main goal is to not fry my amp, yet still make it earn it's money.

if my sub can play wotw at reference of avr I will have headroom for virtually any other piece and nothing will get ruined. I rarely leave bass trim alone. My umc200 remote has a handy up/down trim button. Sometimes I like bass balanced. Sometimes late at night I turn it down 2-3 dbs. Sometimes some movies/ tv shows need 3dbs more bass in my opinion.
Not everybody has seos speakers. That should not be relevant. If you main speakers are not at least as capable as you sub then you will possibly fry you speakers instead of the sub when you go to 0db on MV after setting you sub according to your guide. If you only test with a stereo signal then the sub will only see the redirected bass from L and R. If you test with a surround signal the sub will see the LFE + any redirected bass form any number of LCRs and surrounds. You cant know what the voltage on the Sub out will be under these conditions if you dont test it, and with that you cant know if you will clip the sub amp.
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post #27 of 74 Old 08-05-2014, 02:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekingNirvana View Post
If you do use REW to generate a sine wave, what level should REW be set to? I have read a lot about -20dbfs?

So if you have your trims set to 0, and the main volume set to -0, what do you set the sine wave too, and why?

I have never understood what dbfs is, and when or why to change it.
dBFS is just the digital signal level so anything more than 0 means the signal is clipping in the digital domain - some details on wiki http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DBFS

REW describes a full strength sine wave as -3 dBFS because that value in the signal generator is an RMS value - http://www.roomeqwizard.com/wizardhe...iggen.html#top
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post #28 of 74 Old 08-05-2014, 03:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by splotten View Post
Not everybody has seos speakers. That should not be relevant. If you main speakers are not at least as capable as you sub then you will possibly fry you speakers instead of the sub when you go to 0db on MV after setting you sub according to your guide. If you only test with a stereo signal then the sub will only see the redirected bass from L and R. If you test with a surround signal the sub will see the LFE + any redirected bass form any number of LCRs and surrounds. You cant know what the voltage on the Sub out will be under these conditions if you dont test it, and with that you cant know if you will clip the sub amp.
Edited step 2 & 3.
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post #29 of 74 Old 08-05-2014, 04:49 AM
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Is there anyway to know if you are clipping the signal coming into the amplifier, ie: input signal clipping? I have two iNuke3000 (non Dsp) powering my subs, and a couple iNuke1000dsp's that I am going to use for powering my new LCR's when I finish them.

I figure that I can easily tell if I am clipping the input on my iNuke1000dsp amplifiers via the software, but for my regular iNuke3000, how cam I know whether or not the input signal is clipping?
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post #30 of 74 Old 08-05-2014, 06:54 AM
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You cant see if the signal is already clipped in the AVR before entering the Inuke. However that should not be a concern because the nukes only need 0.75V to reach full power. Ie. just leave the LFE/sub trim close to zero and adjust the subwoofer volume via the gain knob on the amp and there should be no reason for concern regarding overdriving the AVRs sub output.

If the inuke3000 itself is clipping its likely not the input thats clipping. The manual doesent state max input voltage but when a pro amp clips its the output that is clipping.
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