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post #331 of 635 Old 08-20-2014, 04:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxozaxu View Post
I have four SI HT18 D4 sub woofers waiting for me to build some ported enclosures and I already have a balanced 2x4 Mini Dsp 2x4. The plan was to grab one Behringer NU4-6000 for $350 and wire the subs so the amp sees four 2ohms channels.

Now I'm tempted by the crown amps for my subs. If I go the crown route, I think I need to purchase two x4000 amps and wire the subs so each amp sees two 8 ohms channels (total four channels 8ohm 1000W per channel). Total cost $600. Is that correct? Or could I just purchase one x4000 and hook up two subs together so each channel sees a 4 ohm load (total two 4ohm channels and 1350W per channel shared by 2 subs on each channel)?Could I still use my mini DSP with two subs per channel? It also looks like I can't get the x2000 to work for me in any configuration.

I would really appreciate someone checking my math here.
The inuke would be giving them about 1100 RMS per channel. In regards to the crown, if you ran two subs off of one channel to see a 4 ohm load then thats give or take 700 ish watts. The RMS on the SI's is 600, but they can take substancially more than that. My 3000dsp shuts off before my subs get close to bottoming out. I think the inuke is a better bargain and has more power, less rac space, less weight and since its not a propitiatory amp, easily to get a replacement if there is an issue. Who knows how much longer Guitar center will be carring this model.
Sure you get RCA in, speaker wire outs and quit fans, the noise floor is a tad lower as well on the crown but that wont make a difference with subs. Other than that the behringer is a better deal, I am getting a few more SI's myself and will get one or two more of the behringers.
With that said the crowns work great for powering speakers, and I would go with the crown over the behringer for that application.
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post #332 of 635 Old 08-20-2014, 07:57 AM
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Thanks to the op for putting out this deal on the crown X1000s!

I ordered two of these for my LCR's and I just learned a few days ago that GC canceled my original order?! I ordered these things and they were back ordered so I knew I might be waiting a while for them, but I had to call GC to let them know I still wanted two of these and I wasn't happy they just canceled the order. After all of that, I finally have two of these being shipped to my local GC.
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post #333 of 635 Old 08-20-2014, 09:52 AM
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can you use banana plugs with these?
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post #334 of 635 Old 08-20-2014, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemonslush View Post
The inuke would be giving them about 1100 RMS per channel. In regards to the crown, if you ran two subs off of one channel to see a 4 ohm load then thats give or take 700 ish watts. The RMS on the SI's is 600, but they can take substancially more than that. My 3000dsp shuts off before my subs get close to bottoming out. I think the inuke is a better bargain and has more power, less rac space, less weight and since its not a propitiatory amp, easily to get a replacement if there is an issue. Who knows how much longer Guitar center will be carring this model.
Sure you get RCA in, speaker wire outs and quit fans, the noise floor is a tad lower as well on the crown but that wont make a difference with subs. Other than that the behringer is a better deal, I am getting a few more SI's myself and will get one or two more of the behringers.
With that said the crowns work great for powering speakers, and I would go with the crown over the behringer for that application.
Thanks lemonslush. This helped me a lot. Sometimes while sitting here trying to figure stuff out I wonder if I'm on the right track or off in left field. So that's what I was thinking: one x4000 would leave too much on the table and the extra $250 cost for two x4000 over one Behringer iNUKE NU4-6000 is probably not worth it considering it's just for subs and the possibility of replacement issues for the crown. It would be nice having all crown in the rack but I can live without that.

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post #335 of 635 Old 08-20-2014, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross Kirshner View Post
can you use banana plugs with these?
Yes
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post #336 of 635 Old 08-20-2014, 07:33 PM
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Just received my two X1000s I ordered last Wednesday. I hooked it up in place of my Lepai powering my Classix IIs (just for testing). It's heavy... much heavier than the Behringer 3000DSP. It's convenient that it has RCA inputs. After powering it on, I could feel the fans pushing some air, but it was pretty quiet... not silent, but not noticeable once music was playing. It's great to get a Crown amp at this price.
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post #337 of 635 Old 08-20-2014, 09:58 PM
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You were right. I went to 3 local stores and found 2 stores that had them in stock. Got 2 more of the X1000 and 1 X4000. The employees didn't even know they were on sale and the online inventory said there wasn't any.

Not sure why I need 6 X1000's and 4 X4000's but they are a great amp for the money and hard to pass up at this price If anyone hasn't bought one of these yet and wants one, go down to your local Guitar Center in person and see what they have in the shelve. You might be surprised!


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For those that have had no luck getting their hands on the X1000 through ordering on the Guitar Center site, my best advice is to search and email the closest locations to you and ask if they have any in stock. I live in NY and happened to travel to NH earlier this week. The Guitar Center in NH was out of the X1000, but I found 3 locations literally right along my trip home in MA. 2 of the 3 locations had the X1000 in stock. I stopped and bought the last one at one of those locations. Of course I had to eat the $6.25 in sales tax that wouldn't have been the case through the online order, but it is what it is.
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post #338 of 635 Old 08-21-2014, 06:42 AM
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Nice job. Yeah the employees seem clueless A - That they are even in stock (or in the warehouse in the back) and B - That they're on sale for a great price.
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post #339 of 635 Old 08-21-2014, 05:10 PM
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Chalugadp-Thanks alot for the headsup!!! Just went down to GC and picked up their last two. The clerk also had no idea, and wondered if they were below cost even. Pretty solid deal 4x300 watts for $200, I'm probably going to just use one channel on one and put these on lcr duty.
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post #340 of 635 Old 08-21-2014, 05:37 PM
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bought two X1000s for $hits and giggles.... not even the price of entry level interconnects so worth it to give a listen...

system:

dedicated, purpose built audio PC feeding B.M.C. Audio PureUSB1 USB cable to PS Audio DirectStream ($6K MSRP) DSD D/A converter's USB input. The PS Audio fed the Crown directly via XLR and use built in volume control on DirectStream DAC. Crown amp powering Harbeth Audio Monitor 30.1 speakers. Comparison amps were Abbingdon Music Research (AMR) AM 77.1 run power amp direct, Red Wine Audio Signature 57 battery powered integrated amp...I fed custom modded at the factory input that drives power amp direct and bypasses volume control of integrated amp. finally, I used a Butler Audio TDB-5150 hybrid amp as that might be the amp that gets relegated if I ever kept these and used them for powering surround channels in one of my theater rooms...

did a fair bit of music listening and compared back and forth...

Conclusions:

1) definitely worth the $99.... hangs with stuff worth many multiples of the sale price. For someone using a receiver and wanting dedicated amp channels instead of shared amp module built into the receiver, this is recommended over the other typically recommended amps mentioned here. In some ways more listenable than the crown XTI series amp I have here for full range (less obvious high frequency issues and better soundstaging and image placement).

2) it didn't get totally embarrassed by the others, but it was very obvious it's not in the same class at all. Typical pro amp sound where it sounds like there is too much crap in the signal path to protect it against drunken, oblivious dudes abusing it and blowing it up and ends up with that kind of haze and less than natural and "real" illusion to the resulting sound. A little closed in, hollow, lean (by comparison to the others but not overall compared to everything on the market or its direct pro amp competition at these kinds of price points), and doesn't flesh out things properly to be something that is listened to music long term for my tastes. But it does have surprisingly good imaging and soundstage size/placement. Upper bass especially was a little "one-notey" and had a fuzzy resonance that wasn't natural compared to everything else I have here and what I know this setup can sound like... tries to fatten up the bass overall to make it sound like it has more bottom end grunt... tries to be more towards the neutral side of things sonicwise overall, with no obvious attempt to soften things up to cover up anything or create an error of omission rather than commission. Vocals and that part of the midrange are surprisingly clear and intelligible if a touch muted by that overall touch of closed in kind of sound.

Of all the $1K and under pro amps I've heard to compare to "audiophool" alternatives I own, this one does the least to offend. no need to hack it apart to change fans, no glaring sonic issues that are nails on a chalkboard annoying to distract... could use some meatier sounding pieces around it to balance out the tilt toward leaner sound that can ride the edge and tip it over into forward and bright kind of sound if everything else is of similar sonic quality.

if you can find some left, grab them... they're worth the silly cheap price being asked....
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post #341 of 635 Old 08-21-2014, 08:18 PM
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@hometheaterdoc ,


Have you ever participated in a blind amp test?
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post #342 of 635 Old 08-21-2014, 08:20 PM
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I did some testing of my amps at idle (no signal) using the Kill A Watt:

Crown X1000: 38W
Behringer NU3000DSP: 32W
Lepai 2020A+: 2W
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post #343 of 635 Old 08-22-2014, 08:33 AM
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FYI... new guy here... but I appreciate the heads up about these amps... I went on the website (guitar center) yesterday afternoon and ordered 2 of them... just got an email that they shipped out today.... so they ARE still available on the website off and on. Will use one to power some old Pioneer CS-922a with Eminence woofers in them (great improvement)... other will power my seemingly always underpowered center channel.
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post #344 of 635 Old 08-22-2014, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gibby64 View Post
FYI... new guy here... but I appreciate the heads up about these amps... I went on the website (guitar center) yesterday afternoon and ordered 2 of them... just got an email that they shipped out today.... so they ARE still available on the website off and on. Will use one to power some old Pioneer CS-922a with Eminence woofers in them (great improvement)... other will power my seemingly always underpowered center channel.
they have no idea there are 4 in austin but they wont ship them to me so i have to go for a drive today
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post #345 of 635 Old 08-22-2014, 11:15 PM
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Same thing here. My back order is still not filled, but I can call around and find several of them sitting in stores on shelves but they will not ship.

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they have no idea there are 4 in austin but they wont ship them to me so i have to go for a drive today
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post #346 of 635 Old 08-23-2014, 06:07 AM
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They shipped mine from another store to my local store last week.
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post #347 of 635 Old 08-23-2014, 08:32 AM
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Might return the amps today. I honestly cant tell a difference in sound for my speakers. More importantly they vibrate like crazy in my rack, I can hear them 15 feet away. I have a sub underneath my av stuff and the metal case tops dont like it. My inuke amps and other stuff doesnt make a peep.
Tried stuffing foam between them which helped, I think the only other solution is to put a weight or something on top of the top amp.
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post #348 of 635 Old 08-23-2014, 10:47 AM
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Regarding telling the difference in sound, where it usually makes a difference is when you boost using eq to correct response which taps into your power reserves. Isolating them from rattles is another story.
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post #349 of 635 Old 08-23-2014, 12:31 PM
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I am guessing that neither the Guitar Centre or Musicians Friend will ship these to the UK?

It looks like they are all 110v anyway so I guess they wouldn't work even if I could get them shipped
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post #350 of 635 Old 08-23-2014, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C O D Y View Post
Same thing here. My back order is still not filled, but I can call around and find several of them sitting in stores on shelves but they will not ship.
I grabbed one more today from my local store. Making it 3 x X1000.
Ha. I was wondering if will keep the one that I bought initially, but ..
The 3rd will be idle for now and the remaining 2 will be doing LCR
Once I move to 11.x preout receiver the 3rd one should come into play..
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post #351 of 635 Old 08-25-2014, 05:51 PM
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Hey guys, I ordered a X4000 (so I'll never need more power, couldn't resist price) to run my mains through a VSX-1121-K...

Problem is I can't find what input voltage it needs on amp? I see it has 2 options .775v and 1.4v

I've done a lot of searching and can't find the answer.
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post #352 of 635 Old 08-25-2014, 09:18 PM
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Mine are on 1.4v they never clip and barely light up the lights under normal tv shows.
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post #353 of 635 Old 08-26-2014, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemonslush View Post
Might return the amps today. I honestly cant tell a difference in sound for my speakers. More importantly they vibrate like crazy in my rack, I can hear them 15 feet away. I have a sub underneath my av stuff and the metal case tops dont like it. My inuke amps and other stuff doesnt make a peep.
Tried stuffing foam between them which helped, I think the only other solution is to put a weight or something on top of the top amp.
At least you're not returning them for a problem with their function. I knew when I bought mine, I didn't need them, but for the price it future proofs me for Atmos or heights/wides or even addition zones in the house I have yet to build.
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post #354 of 635 Old 08-26-2014, 09:30 AM
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At least you're not returning them for a problem with their function. I knew when I bought mine, I didn't need them, but for the price it future proofs me for Atmos or heights/wides or even addition zones in the house I have yet to build.
Yea I bought them because of price. My wife said" why do you want to return them, they look cool". If they didnt buzz so much I would just keep them its short money and your right. Its nice to have that extra amp for who knows what. Maybe a 12" sub build for a office, kitchen or bathroom in the future? Meh who knows. If I get the motivation back I will return them, and if I run out of rack space which I may be shortly I would need one gone as well.
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post #355 of 635 Old 08-26-2014, 08:54 PM
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Just got a 3rd today, I bought the local stores last two then saw they were back online so I snagged another. 3 business days till arrival with free shipping, not too bad.
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post #356 of 635 Old 08-27-2014, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
@hometheaterdoc ,


Have you ever participated in a blind amp test?
I will guess no.
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post #357 of 635 Old 08-27-2014, 10:05 AM
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I hooked a 4000, and a 2000 bridged, up to my 6ohm LCR's that are spec's to 600 watts. Nice improvement over my existing Emotiva xpa-100 mono blocks at double the power. These Crowns are so quiet. The Emo's are completely silent but from a foot away you can't hear the crowns so am very happy with the swap.

The only bad thing was the Crown's introduced an annoying ground loop hum in the speakers that was not there before. Playing around, I was able to get rid of the hum but had to disconnect some items in my ht to do it. Not good.
Fortunately, I picked up some xlr to rca cables, and swapped for the inter connects I was using with the emo's and the hum is GONE.

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post #358 of 635 Old 08-27-2014, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
@hometheaterdoc ,


Have you ever participated in a blind amp test?
dozens of times... and since I recognize where this will inevitably go and what it is, I'll engage to say the following and then never respond again because the pointlessness of the round and round that comes from it doesn't interest me in the slightest.... you won't change my mind so I probably should just not even reply......

in every single rigorously setup blind test I participated in except one, I was able to hear differences to a statistically significant level or outright 100% of the time. I've shown my buddies and, most importantly, myself that I can hear differences and they aren't imagined, placebo, simple gain mismatches, etc. etc. Why I hear the differences and what is really the reason for the differences I hear is not that important to me since I'm not going to be modifying the equipment to try to make one sound like the other or alter the distortion spectrum of one piece to be more like another, etc. etc. etc.. I merely try to find one I like and decide if the difference in sound is something I like and is worth the price to me to purchase.

I don't assume more $ means better. There is a shocking amount of absolute garbage sounding ultra expensive stuff on the market. There are some generic trends, but no absolutes.

I don't always do super rigorous blind tests for every single gear comparison. A lot of times I compare sighted with everything but the piece being compared staying as constant as possible and gain matched more than I do the full blown blind stuff. Simple reason is convenience... its a PITA to setup a really good blind test and you need more than one person to do a true blind test. I don't always have that luxury at 2AM on a Monday morning. I also have often done a series of sighted comparisons with other pieces in the chain changing to see if my perceptions hold up with other combinations of gear (i.e. does it sound bright with two different preamps, or does one make it sound less bright than the others and does the other amps in the comparison have a similar sonic change when the preamp is changed... basically an examination of system "synergy" that audiophools like to ramble on about)

this particular comparison of these amps was done sighted, but every piece was constant around it except for the amps and all were level matched. I got changes down to under 20 seconds to limit aural memory loss. But that wasn't really necessary. It was not a subtle difference in sound between the compared pieces. The comparison was done again and again over numerous days and notes compared to make sure other factors like quality of power and ambient noise floor of time of day, my attention span, etc. didn't bias what I was hearing. I've since listened to the amps in question again with a different DAC and preamp than the PS Audio DirectStream to see if my thoughts changed about its overall sonic character or if the impedance matching with another piece did something sonically to alter my perception of the overall sonic characteristics I wrote about in my initial post (it didn't... but it did further reinforce my comment that putting fatter, denser, or warmer sounding pieces around the Crown helps make it more listenable and tames the leaner nature of the amp overall. It didn't magically make it a world class piece, but it did make the overall system more listenable and let the pros of the amp shine through, while mitigating some of its weaknesses to be less distracting).

It's a very good amp and a ridiculous bargain for the cash outlay. $99 for this kind of piece is kind of funny to get the power output and sound quality it offers. It's not a world class high end audiophool approved device, though for a dedicated 2 channel system.
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post #359 of 635 Old 08-27-2014, 06:15 PM
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Very in depth response hometheaterdoc, I like.
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post #360 of 635 Old 08-27-2014, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCaboNow View Post
I hooked a 4000, and a 2000 bridged, up to my 6ohm LCR's that are spec's to 600 watts. Nice improvement over my existing Emotiva xpa-100 mono blocks at double the power. These Crowns are so quiet. The Emo's are completely silent but from a foot away you can't hear the crowns so am very happy with the swap.

The only bad thing was the Crown's introduced an annoying ground loop hum in the speakers that was not there before. Playing around, I was able to get rid of the hum but had to disconnect some items in my ht to do it. Not good.
Fortunately, I picked up some xlr to rca cables, and swapped for the inter connects I was using with the emo's and the hum is GONE.
This is why I will never use a receiver with rca outputs again. Ground loop hell. Life with a prepro/xlr setup has been heaven. No more buzz. No more having to play ground loop hum detective anytime I introduce a new piece of equipment to the signal chain.
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