gauging interest in 2k watt rms plate amps - AVS Forum
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#1 1 12.50%
#2 2 25.00%
too expensive 5 62.50%
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post #1 of 29 Old 08-05-2014, 08:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Cool gauging interest in 2k watt rms plate amps

parts are much cheaper even in small quantity's i was planning on building my self 4x 2kwatt class d plate amps if i could build 10 that would cut the cost by about 20% this is pretty much a group buy u wont find a amp like this on the market

reasons why i am doing this:
no plate amps on market
the ones that do have smps not repairable


option 1
limited run 10 or more or it doesn't happen im in for first 2
full cnc made front panel black anodized with 7x7'' large finned heat sinks
for home theater or pro use
2500va transformer that's about 41lb
160k uf huge cap bank just for fun
2.4kwatts rms 5k peak output 4ohm
balanced input
soft start and full speaker protect circuitry dc-sense
3 year warranty common easy to find parts no smps make this a very simple amp to fix.
60% upfront 40%+ shipping upon complication
time from order to shipping 1-2 months
18x12x9'' plate size 4mm thick

900usd + shipping

option 2


ill fab in my garage and wont be as pretty but still nice no engraved white words but who really cares
for home theater use only
1500va transformer will still put out rated power just not as long
160kuf
2.4kwatts rms 5k peak output 4ohm
balanced input
soft start and full speaker protect circuitry dc-sense
3 year warranty common easy to find parts no smps make this a very simple amp to fix.
60% upfront 40%+ shipping upon complication
time from order to shipping 1-2 months
18x12x9'' plate size 10mm thick not 4 like the one above
700 each + shipping

picture of 2500va transformer vs ep4000, weight is about 5 pounds more then the ep4000
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post #2 of 29 Old 08-06-2014, 12:54 AM
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post #3 of 29 Old 08-06-2014, 03:43 AM
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I would vote for option number 2 just for the sole reason that it is $200 cheaper than option 1, although, I still can't afford one anyway.

I personally think that it would be awesome to have a plate amp of this caliber with that many watts! One of these 2.5k watt beast with a MiniDsp would make for a truly killer combo!

Now if you could just find some way to implement DSP and negate the need for an external box. Oh and what about some lower wattage, cheaper options? 1000 watts or even 800 watts at a lower price would be nice.
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post #4 of 29 Old 08-06-2014, 10:04 AM
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Minidsp offers exactly what you described for 999. Not sure if it's been tested though.

A better 1000 watt plate amp than the dayton would be nice.
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post #5 of 29 Old 08-06-2014, 10:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post
I would vote for option number 2 just for the sole reason that it is $200 cheaper than option 1, although, I still can't afford one anyway.

I personally think that it would be awesome to have a plate amp of this caliber with that many watts! One of these 2.5k watt beast with a MiniDsp would make for a truly killer combo!

Now if you could just find some way to implement DSP and negate the need for an external box. Oh and what about some lower wattage, cheaper options? 1000 watts or even 800 watts at a lower price would be nice.
it would be very easy to find a place for a mini dsp 2x4 inside
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post #6 of 29 Old 08-06-2014, 10:37 AM
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What is it that causes plate amps to be twice the price of non-plate amps, generally speaking for the same wattage?
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post #7 of 29 Old 08-06-2014, 12:04 PM
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post #8 of 29 Old 08-06-2014, 12:09 PM
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Just keep this in mind:

A commen 20amp 120v circuit can only supply 2400 watts. And any class B amplifier is only 50% efficient, Class D can be in the 70% range IIRC. A more common 15 amp household circuit is only 1800 watts.

Due to the stupid laws of physics, we can't get more power out of something than we put in! And due to the ever present losses in energy conversion, we always get far less.

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post #9 of 29 Old 08-06-2014, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrutalBodyShots View Post
What is it that causes plate amps to be twice the price of non-plate amps, generally speaking for the same wattage?
Volume of amps produced and sold. Behringer makes and sells amp by the container load.
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post #10 of 29 Old 08-06-2014, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post
Just keep this in mind:

A commen 20amp 120v circuit can only supply 2400 watts. And any class B amplifier is only 50% efficient, Class D can be in the 70% range IIRC. A more common 15 amp household circuit is only 1800 watts.

Due to the stupid laws of physics, we can't get more power out of something than we put in! And due to the ever present losses in energy conversion, we always get far less.
that's only for continuous draw, you can burst a lot more from a normal 20 amp line. unless you are running sine waves you wont have an issue running a powerful amp in your house.
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post #11 of 29 Old 08-06-2014, 01:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post
Just keep this in mind:

A commen 20amp 120v circuit can only supply 2400 watts. And any class B amplifier is only 50% efficient, Class D can be in the 70% range IIRC. A more common 15 amp household circuit is only 1800 watts.

Due to the stupid laws of physics, we can't get more power out of something than we put in! And due to the ever present losses in energy conversion, we always get far less.
class H is in the 70%, any modern class D is over 90% . also i have never lived in house with 15a circits b/c the cost difference is completely insignificant. also breakers can output more then double their rated output for a short amount of time without tripping.
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post #12 of 29 Old 08-06-2014, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manic1! View Post
Volume of amps produced and sold. Behringer makes and sells amp by the container load.
Do you think if plate amps were produced by the container load as well, resulting in an equal price to non-plate amps per watt that people would go down that route instead?
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post #13 of 29 Old 08-06-2014, 01:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrutalBodyShots View Post
What is it that causes plate amps to be twice the price of non-plate amps, generally speaking for the same wattage?

smps are cheap, they also use under sized transformers like in the ep4000. since this is just a diy / group buy type thing i don't really want to hold back in any aspects like using a smps or a smaller then necessary transformer
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post #14 of 29 Old 08-06-2014, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cookieattk View Post
class H is in the 70%, any modern class D is over 90% . also i have never lived in house with 15a circits b/c the cost difference is completely insignificant. also breakers can output more then double their rated output for a short amount of time without tripping.
Well 15a circuits are in fact common, especially in cheap tract homes as well as older homes before around 1970.

But it's all a moot point anyway. Nobody is going to use that much power in a home listening environment. Peaks possibly, but it is also true that circuit breakers can take short overloads without tripping.

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post #15 of 29 Old 08-06-2014, 02:47 PM
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Why would I buy this over the minidsp pwr-dsp1? It has powerful dsp integrated, and comes from an established and reputable company all for $999.
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post #16 of 29 Old 08-06-2014, 03:07 PM
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I would also have concerns about a warranty provided by someone building a product in his garage. If I don't like the product can I return it for a refund? Will you be providing third party tests proving that it does indeed work as promised? How do I know it won't burn down my house, will you be getting ul certification? If I have a question or concern after I receive it can I call you to answer/troubleshoot? Not trying to be an a$$ but trust me there are many concerns when selling a fairly complex electronic device to the public.
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post #17 of 29 Old 08-06-2014, 03:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by audio0947 View Post
Why would I buy this over the minidsp pwr-dsp1? It has powerful dsp integrated, and comes from an established and reputable company all for $999.


burst 2000w that's half the amp im offering
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post #18 of 29 Old 08-06-2014, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrutalBodyShots View Post
Do you think if plate amps were produced by the container load as well, resulting in an equal price to non-plate amps per watt that people would go down that route instead?
Yes but do you thing someone will be able to sell 50000 plate amps?The parts are the same jut in a different package.



Here is a 1400 watt plate amp for $599.

http://www.cracoustics.com/product/dx1400mb/
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post #19 of 29 Old 08-06-2014, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Manic1! View Post
Yes but do you thing someone will be able to sell 50000 plate amps?The parts are the same jut in a different package.



Here is a 1400 watt plate amp for $599.

http://www.cracoustics.com/product/dx1400mb/
Well, yeah - inuke... no?

I've only purchased powered subwoofers in my day, so I'm quite used to plate amps at this point. To me they seem simple and more convenient than non-plate amps. I'm very new to DIY, so non-plate amps are new to me. I was surprised to see the amount of power you can get from them though for the price, which led me to asking why plate amps aren't on the same level generally speaking.
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post #20 of 29 Old 08-06-2014, 05:08 PM
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Cookie have you looked at the Powersoft and Hypex amplifier modules?

I looked at building one of the Hypex 2000/3000peak amplifiers but never got around to it. Was about 440 for the PS and amp module. Just a thought. Either way its great to have another option.

Would your plate amp be 100-240Vac useable? Or at least able to convert or have two versions?
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post #21 of 29 Old 08-06-2014, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cookieattk View Post
burst 2000w that's half the amp im offering
Power ratings (RMS @ 1% THD) Channel 1: 800W @16Ω, 1550W @8Ω, 2400W @4Ω, 4000W Peak
It's actually 2400w at 4ohm and 4000w burst.

Close your eyes and hear the truth!
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post #22 of 29 Old 08-06-2014, 06:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Power ratings (RMS @ 1% THD) Channel 1: 800W @16Ω, 1550W @8Ω, 2400W @4Ω, 4000W Peak
It's actually 2400w at 4ohm and 4000w burst.

http://www.pascal-audio.com/download...asheet-2_1.pdf 1k watt 2k burst
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post #23 of 29 Old 08-06-2014, 06:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Cookie have you looked at the Powersoft and Hypex amplifier modules?

I looked at building one of the Hypex 2000/3000peak amplifiers but never got around to it. Was about 440 for the PS and amp module. Just a thought. Either way its great to have another option.

Would your plate amp be 100-240Vac useable? Or at least able to convert or have two versions?

its 440 euros ! also i cant repair the amp in a year and a half if it breaks also no way to mount to large heatsink . i can wire the plate amp for 115v or 230v
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post #24 of 29 Old 08-07-2014, 07:19 AM
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it would be very easy to find a place for a mini dsp 2x4 inside
Yes, that is true, BUT, then you would have to contend with additional wiring and more devices that are added to the signal chain, which is a turn off to me.

If these babies had a DSP option, that would be so awesome. I do, of course, realize that you are a small operation and that adding DSP to these amplifiers is most likely beyond the scope of what you can do on a small scale. With that being said, yes, having a plate amp that puts out 2400 watts at $900 is a great deal, it's just that so many of us can't drop $900 into a plate amp.

My suggestion, if you really wanted to do something nice for the DIY community and make some cash, assuming that adding DSP is 100% out of the question, would be to offer plate amps in either 250 watt, 350 watt, and 450 watts at a significantly cheaper price. That way you could still win over some folks that are willing to forgo the iNukes and instead go for a plate amp + MiniDsp option!
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post #25 of 29 Old 08-07-2014, 07:40 AM
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Well since you are claiming that minidsp is being untruthful by a wide margin could you point out where on that data sheet it says the module is only capable of 1000w rms? It does claim a peak output of 120v at 4 ohms (160 at 8ohm) and 30amps, does that equal 2000w peak? I do see where there is a 1000w rms limiter that can be engaged if one would like too, why would they include the rms limiter if the amp can't supply more than the limit point? Assuming of course that mini is using the unaltered off the shelf unit. What module are you basing your homemade amp off of? How will you be testing it to ensure that the output is as you claim?
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post #26 of 29 Old 08-07-2014, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post
Yes, that is true, BUT, then you would have to contend with additional wiring and more devices that are added to the signal chain, which is a turn off to me.

If these babies had a DSP option, that would be so awesome. I do, of course, realize that you are a small operation and that adding DSP to these amplifiers is most likely beyond the scope of what you can do on a small scale. With that being said, yes, having a plate amp that puts out 2400 watts at $900 is a great deal, it's just that so many of us can't drop $900 into a plate amp.

My suggestion, if you really wanted to do something nice for the DIY community and make some cash, assuming that adding DSP is 100% out of the question, would be to offer plate amps in either 250 watt, 350 watt, and 450 watts at a significantly cheaper price. That way you could still win over some folks that are willing to forgo the iNukes and instead go for a plate amp + MiniDsp option!
minidsp has amps that put out 140w X 2, 250w X 2, 450w X 1 and 630w X 1 all with dsp and ethernet control for $275 to $375
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post #27 of 29 Old 08-07-2014, 10:27 AM
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Also a 18x12x9" 50lbs plate amp is massive and kinda makes actually using it as a plate amp difficult especially in smaller sealed boxes where it would take up like 1.2 cubic feet or in mid sized ported boxes where it may interfere with ports. Would that huge power supply get hot in a sealed enclosure? Most plate amps are 3 to 5" deep at most and half as wide as yours. Again not trying to be a debbie downer, just pointing out some things to think about.
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post #28 of 29 Old 08-07-2014, 12:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by audio0947 View Post
Also a 18x12x9" 50lbs plate amp is massive and kinda makes actually using it as a plate amp difficult especially in smaller sealed boxes where it would take up like 1.2 cubic feet or in mid sized ported boxes where it may interfere with ports. Would that huge power supply get hot in a sealed enclosure? Most plate amps are 3 to 5" deep at most and half as wide as yours. Again not trying to be a debbie downer, just pointing out some things to think about.

its not really 9'' deep the transformer will stick out then have a much smaller 5'' box
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post #29 of 29 Old 08-07-2014, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
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its not really 9'' deep the transformer will stick out then have a much smaller 5'' box
I see... What module will your amp be based on?
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