Marty sub? Sealed? Help please - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 30 Old 08-07-2014, 12:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Marty sub? Sealed? Help please

Hi, I've been trying to read some about building my own subs. I now have a SVS PC12 plus which I imported about 10 years ago. The hometheater room I have is small, only 11.8x9.3 feet.
The use of the room is about 60% movies and 40% gaming. No music.

What I'd like to do is build two subs and put them on each side of the couch. What options do I have? I've been reading about the Marty sub but all the variations seem too big for me.

I've measured the size I have between the couch and the side wall and it's 40.9x15.1x25.2 inches. The couch is standing against the back wall.

Is it possible to build the sub with the woofer directed against the couch? That way it would be big enough to use the SI 18". How much air between the sub and the couch is needed in that case? Is it possible to do a small Marty sub with the woofer on that side? Or should I just do sealed subs? Other ideas?

The inuke 3000 seems like a good choice to power the SI 18.

It would be great if someone could guide me through the choices.
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post #2 of 30 Old 08-08-2014, 02:51 AM
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Ok, first off, it would definitely be a smart idea to go with the Stereo Integrity 18HT or the Dayton HO18, so you are good there. I like and use the iNuke3000 in my own theater, only thing is I would suggest that you spring for the extra $50 to $75 and get the DSP version aa it will allow you to set a high pass filter, EQ, and some other nice features.

As far as enclosures go, you could get by with sealed as your room is small, but, a pair of ported 18" enclosures would be the ultimate in terms of bass output, and extension I'm your sma room! I would definitely recommend the ported over the sealed if nothing else due to the fact that it will net you 10db to 12db of additional output around the tuning frequency, and have much more slam and the "hit you in the chest" type feeling, compared to a sealed!

As far as the enclosure goes, you need to learn to model the different enclosures in a software program such as winISD, although that is kind of like the pot calling the kettle black as I don't know how to use it either since I do all of my internet surfing on my iPhone 5s.

Contact member LTD02 and tell him your size limitations and. I am sure he will model the best solution for your particular situation! We also have members that will build your enclosure into a flat pack kit, for a nominal fee, of course!
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post #3 of 30 Old 08-08-2014, 03:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post
Ok, first off, it would definitely be a smart idea to go with the Stereo Integrity 18HT or the Dayton HO18, so you are good there. I like and use the iNuke3000 in my own theater, only thing is I would suggest that you spring for the extra $50 to $75 and get the DSP version aa it will allow you to set a high pass filter, EQ, and some other nice features.

As far as enclosures go, you could get by with sealed as your room is small, but, a pair of ported 18" enclosures would be the ultimate in terms of bass output, and extension I'm your sma room! I would definitely recommend the ported over the sealed if nothing else due to the fact that it will net you 10db to 12db of additional output around the tuning frequency, and have much more slam and the "hit you in the chest" type feeling, compared to a sealed!

As far as the enclosure goes, you need to learn to model the different enclosures in a software program such as winISD, although that is kind of like the pot calling the kettle black as I don't know how to use it either since I do all of my internet surfing on my iPhone 5s.

Contact member LTD02 and tell him your size limitations and. I am sure he will model the best solution for your particular situation! We also have members that will build your enclosure into a flat pack kit, for a nominal fee, of course!
Hi Marty, thanks for the post.
I'll have a look at the Dayton HO18 too, maybe that's easier to buy in Sweden where I live. Yes I'll go for the Inuke with the dsp, seems like a good choice. I've just tested the winisd pro and downloaded a driver for the SI 18HT D2. Tested with a sealed and ported and it seems like a ported is the way to go. I have no idea if I'm usling it correct though, so it's probably wise if someone like LTD02 could take a look at it.
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post #4 of 30 Old 08-09-2014, 01:54 AM
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one thought that immediately comes to mind is the plasmad pocket sub (or something similar)


The plasmad pocket sub


if you could post a pic or two of the room or even a quick drawing by hand that might stoke some ideas for how to get some big bass in there in a friendly way.

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post #5 of 30 Old 08-09-2014, 12:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
one thought that immediately comes to mind is the plasmad pocket sub (or something similar)


The plasmad pocket sub


if you could post a pic or two of the room or even a quick drawing by hand that might stoke some ideas for how to get some big bass in there in a friendly way.
Thanks for the reply LTD02 and thanks for that link to The plasmad pocket sub, that looks like something I was aiming for. I was also hoping that the subs could be used as tables beside the couch so they can't be that high. I've uploaded a few pictures so you can see how it is. The couch is a little off centre to let the SVS stand in the corner. With the new subs it will be centered. I saw now that I have, what do you call it, electricity socket on the left side of the couch that is on the wall, maybe I'll have to remove that...

How much space between the couch and the subs does it have to be?
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post #6 of 30 Old 08-10-2014, 01:22 AM
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that is *really* tight. only a few inches is required in front of the subs, but I'm not even sure if there is room for cabs and drivers on both sides of the couch.


have you considered an ottoman subwoofer?


here is an example: Ottoman subwoofer


very stealth. good use of space in a very small room.


something like this might work, or something similar on each side. essentially the enclosure would stick out in front of the couch.


CYCLOPS....a new LTD02 design

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post #7 of 30 Old 08-10-2014, 06:12 AM
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Ported > sealed. Output is exciting.

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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post #8 of 30 Old 08-10-2014, 10:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
that is *really* tight. only a few inches is required in front of the subs, but I'm not even sure if there is room for cabs and drivers on both sides of the couch.


have you considered an ottoman subwoofer?


here is an example: Ottoman subwoofer


very stealth. good use of space in a very small room.


something like this might work, or something similar on each side. essentially the enclosure would stick out in front of the couch.


CYCLOPS....a new LTD02 design
The ottoman isn't possible, the wife and daughters likes those dancing games on the ps3, so there has to be room for that.

Yes, the cyklops seems good, and when I read what you wrote "essentially the enclosure would stick out in front of the couch.", I'm now thinking that the SI 18 should be visible and stick out in the front of the couch on both sides. That way all the space between wall and couch can be used and the enclosure gets more volume. I need to do some more measuring and see if what I measured before is correct. I also need to check how thick the finishing on the top is going to be. I'm thinking some oak board. I'll be back!
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post #9 of 30 Old 08-11-2014, 04:22 PM - Thread Starter
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I've measured again now (more exact) with the thought that the SI18 is visible in front of the couch.
The max length is about 64.63", that includes about 22" for the SI18 in front of the couch ( if that's enough?).
The max width is 14.07".
The max height is 23.23". The min height is 22".

It would be great if you can do some calculations on this LTD02?
17 hz tuning seems good if possible.
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post #10 of 30 Old 08-12-2014, 10:40 AM
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What if you built a couch riser and put the subs inside of that? You could have the ports face into center of the room, or possibly off to the sides.

This way you get the boom boom your looking for, and the family still gets their dancing games.
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post #11 of 30 Old 08-12-2014, 11:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by kevings View Post
What if you built a couch riser and put the subs inside of that? You could have the ports face into center of the room, or possibly off to the sides.

This way you get the boom boom your looking for, and the family still gets their dancing games.
Thanks, I hadn't thought of that solution before, but I guess couch riser would have to continue in front of the couch too and that would result in less floorspace. And I guess it would be problematic to have a table in front of the couch too.

I still think the best solution as I described before, is to have them beside the couch and let the enclosures continue in front of the couch. With the new measuring I did the volume of the whole enclosure is about 12.22 cuft large. Don't know if that's enough for a full Marty but it might be close.
I'll have a go at winisd again and see if I can get something out of it.
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post #12 of 30 Old 08-12-2014, 11:47 AM
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If your building the riser to simply house a sub or 2, i don't see why it would have to extend out very far. You have got a lot of length and width to work with.

as far as a full size marty's volume....iirc i want to say its about 11 cubic feet, so you should be good if you have got 12 cubic feet to work with.
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post #13 of 30 Old 09-05-2014, 01:31 PM - Thread Starter
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I've been busy with other stuff for a while, but I've ordered a couple of SI 18 D4 so now I have to do something with them .
Seems like the Johnnysub size of Marty is the closest I'll get if I'm building like the sketchup I've done. First time with sketchup so It's not that great. The volume measured by the outer size is now exactly the same cubic feet as the Johnnysub. The volume of the inner size is what I have to calculate I think, with the larger front baffle area my version must have less volume than the Johnnysub if I'm thinking correct.
The ports is another thing I haven't thought of before doing the sketchup, maybe I can't fit the ports like that, depends on the size if they'll interfere with the speakerelements.
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post #14 of 30 Old 09-05-2014, 02:55 PM
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You can do some research on bass shakers. Its not a sub replacement but it could help with your bass experience while using very little space.

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post #15 of 30 Old 09-05-2014, 02:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Seems like I have to do the ports on the "back" against the outer wall, how much free space does it have to be between the port openings and the wall?
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post #16 of 30 Old 09-05-2014, 03:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Of course I can have the ports to the front like this too... getting a bit too tired for this now. Hmm, thinking of backing down to the martycube size instead, and have the sub firing in to the couch instead....
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post #17 of 30 Old 09-05-2014, 05:00 PM
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sorry for missing your updates. :-(


your plan will work great, but care must be taken to ensure that there is space behind the driver to physically fit into the cab with the port like that.


very similar conceptually to this one:


looking into first build! speakers and subs!! help me plan plz!


but with the driver placement changed.

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post #18 of 30 Old 09-05-2014, 05:01 PM
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what physical dimension, externally measured, is that cab in your mockup?


once that is known and your goal for tuning frequency target, port dimensions can be calculated in short order.


and if I somehow miss it again, hit me with a pm over the head!

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post #19 of 30 Old 09-06-2014, 02:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Good to hear from you again LTD02! I'll send you a pm if you don't see this post.

As I wrote yesterday I was leaning more against the smaller sized marty cube instead. I sometimes have some friends over and then we have a couple of chairs against the wall where the subs would be if they where Johnny sized. So going with a smaller size now instead with the drivers firing into the couch. Size is 42.13"x11.81"x29.53"(cm to inch conversion..). The height can be increased if necessary by a few inches.

Going for the tuning of the Marty cubes standard 20 hz seems good I guess.

11.81"-1.5" for the mdf leaves 10.31" for the driver which is 9.19" with gasket and 9.313" without. Should I use the gasket or not? Not sure what that is...

I'm thinking going for a single front baffle, as that would give some more air between the couch and the driver.
Now there's 2.26" between the couch and the box. Is that enough for the SI 18 D4 driver?
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post #20 of 30 Old 09-07-2014, 09:30 AM
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I wouldn't do a single baffle. Think you need at least 3" for driver.
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post #21 of 30 Old 09-07-2014, 10:27 AM
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what about the possibility of re-arranging the front of the room?


is that possible?


two big subs in the front corners as stands for the mains and then a single center stack/rack of equipment/center channel. it would seem like there is much more potential there rather than sandwiching the subs between the couch and the wall. that is getting pretty tight...

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post #22 of 30 Old 09-07-2014, 12:06 PM
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Could you not place the subs behind the sofa with the ports pointing forward on either side of the sofa. That would push the sofa further out into the room of course. Just other approach for you to consider.


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post #23 of 30 Old 09-07-2014, 04:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
what about the possibility of re-arranging the front of the room?


is that possible?


two big subs in the front corners as stands for the mains and then a single center stack/rack of equipment/center channel. it would seem like there is much more potential there rather than sandwiching the subs between the couch and the wall. that is getting pretty tight...
yes, I was beginning to think it was a bad buy those SI 18, and that it wouldn't work in my small room. The equipment rack I have now is 3 modules screwed togheter, with htpc, avr+ps3+ps4 and gaming pc in each of the modules. If I just use the two with the htpc and avr+ps3+ps4, and moves the gaming pc beside the couch, I'll almost get johnnysub volume! i'll to do some measuring again and then back to sketchup!
Thanks for all your posts guys, now I'm happy again
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post #24 of 30 Old 09-07-2014, 04:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamecock24 View Post
Could you not place the subs behind the sofa with the ports pointing forward on either side of the sofa. That would push the sofa further out into the room of course. Just other approach for you to consider.


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Yes, that could be something to consider if the front of the room position is not doable after thinking it through. I would loose some floorspace with your approach though.
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post #25 of 30 Old 09-11-2014, 12:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Finally got some time to measure the front of the room, it's perfect fit for two Johnny's if I take off one module of the equipment rack. Made a sketchup and it looks good. I've done some adjusting to the measuring of the Johnny to the metric system:
24"x25.5"x32" is 60,96x64,77x81,28 in centimeters. And I'm going to use 61x65x81 cm. One cm is 0.393700787 inches. I guess the changes is so small so it doesn't matter?
The original Johnnysub is 11.347 cubic feet. My slightly adjusted (converted fr.o.m. cm to inches again 24.016"x25.591"x31.890) Johnnysub is 11.342 cubic feet.
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post #26 of 30 Old 09-18-2014, 02:51 PM
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the accuracy of your calculations is to be lauded. that said, the performance of the subwoofer does not depend on such accuracy.


you are definitely cleared for takeoff. :-)


also, in your relatively smallish room, two of those subs are going to be quite the experience. :-)

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post #27 of 30 Old 09-18-2014, 05:27 PM
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another option with such small space is to create two anarchy 8 horns... slim and would give you some serious wallop in a room that small
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post #28 of 30 Old 09-26-2014, 02:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mR_Mo View Post
Finally got some time to measure the front of the room, it's perfect fit for two Johnny's if I take off one module of the equipment rack. Made a sketchup and it looks good. I've done some adjusting to the measuring of the Johnny to the metric system:
24"x25.5"x32" is 60,96x64,77x81,28 in centimeters. And I'm going to use 61x65x81 cm. One cm is 0.393700787 inches. I guess the changes is so small so it doesn't matter?
The original Johnnysub is 11.347 cubic feet. My slightly adjusted (converted fr.o.m. cm to inches again 24.016"x25.591"x31.890) Johnnysub is 11.342 cubic feet.
It hit me when I created a cutlist that I have to think about the sawblade taking some of the mdf. Originally I just thought that I would cut it in half but then it could be some difference between the pieces.
So I used this size (already bought and cut at the shop): 60,5x64,3x81cm (23.82"x25.31"x31.89" inches) this converted to cubic feet is 11.123 cubic feet.
The port size is this:
F bottom rails 2.52x20.55 (std Johnny size 2.5x20.75)
G back rails 2.52x23,07 (std Johnny size 2.5x23.25)

LTD02, just to be sure before building, can you have a look agai? Is the port length/size ok for this size?
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post #29 of 30 Old 09-26-2014, 02:53 PM
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changes that small will have no impact on performance. it is good to go.


as a side note...typically, when we refer to a subwoofer as being some number of cubic feet, we are referring to the NET INTERNAL volume, as that is the number that is important for modeling in winisd or other program that uses t/s parameters.


net internal volume is after panel thickness of the sides/top/bottom/baffle/back, port, and some estimate for bracing and driver.

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post #30 of 30 Old 09-26-2014, 04:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
changes that small will have no impact on performance. it is good to go.


as a side note...typically, when we refer to a subwoofer as being some number of cubic feet, we are referring to the NET INTERNAL volume, as that is the number that is important for modeling in winisd or other program that uses t/s parameters.


net internal volume is after panel thickness of the sides/top/bottom/baffle/back, port, and some estimate for bracing and driver.
Thanks, just started building the first, I'll have to do a build thread soon
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