Kevings DIY coffee table with18 inch sub, 4th DIY sub, completed build w/pics - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 38 Old 08-07-2014, 10:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Kevings DIY coffee table with18 inch sub, 4th DIY sub, completed build w/pics

Esteemed DIY brethren, I finally finished my most recent project, and I wanted to share it with you.

Before I tell you about the new sub though there are 2 people I have to say thanks to….

Asarose 24/7 – You’re my DIY sensei You showed me the ropes by helping me with my first Marty Cube and Full size Vertical Marty, and I don’t think I would have been able to make something like this coffee table without the confidence I developed working with you. Now, when I ever I see on newb on the forums asking for help, I always try and give it, so that I can pay it forward, and help them like you did for me.

LTD02- You helped me design the coffee table, after I sent you in a drawing looking like it was made by a third grader. Big thanks coming your way! I do think you’ll get a kick out of seeing what our conversations resulted in/led to.

So my current setup is pictured here. For bass duty, the setup consist of 2 marty cubes and a full size vertical marty in the corner. Im also running a minidsp so that I can just eq at one spot, instead of using the dsp built into each of the inukes. The only feature Im using in the Inuke dsp is the limiter, with every sub set to 1100 watts. And, if you’re wondering how I got that sweet black paint job on my inukes….thats the handy work of forum member, Cessna1466u, his thread is here/thx again Dave!

Painting your iNuke - AKA Black Berry

Current Setup pics ( these are older pics taken before i sold the qsc, in order to buy a 2nd inuke:




So anyhow, The last few months have been awesome with the 3 martys, but I started getting the itch to makes something new. I also had a null at about 65hz or so, but I knew that adding a new sub right in front of the couch would help eliminate it, because forum members Sanjay and Duc135 came over and we did some measuring with a spare sub that Duc had. Thx again fellas.

I thought a coffee table might be kind of fun to try and I was especially fired up to go for it, after seeing this awesome ottoman build by pgwalsh:
Maelstrom 21 Ottoman Build

So I sketched up this killer little rendering of a coffee table sub on a post it note and sent it to the subwoofer high priest ( LTD02 ) and asked him for some help modeling an enclosure around an 18 inch driver I had….the Blueprint 1803. It’s an old school 18, but was one of the top dogs a while back, during the days of the adire brahma, the avalanche, and the maelstrom. It was the first 18 I ever owned, so it also has special value to me for that reason.

art skills:


Blueprint 1803:


So onto the build…..

Picked up the wood… not the most exciting pic, but its here because every journey begins with a first step:


Pic of my highly advanced wood shop:


Sides of the coffee table now complete:


Picked up this killer little pancake compressor and nail gun on sale at harbor freight for less than 75 bucks for everything. It worked perfect throughout the whole build, and never jammed once. It was also a HUGE time saver!


Kept gluing panels together ( titebond ) and nailing, and we now have a box:


The beginnings of a little port action:


Slot Ports now done:


The cut sheet I made using Maxcut ( killer free software for cutsheet making. It will also optimize your panels so you can get the most out of each 4 x 8 panel ). I shared this with Popalock in another thread and he loved it, so if it gets his blessing it’s probably worth checking out. For those that don’t know (he’s the owner of one of the AVS mega systems ).


Test fitting the BP1803 on the double baffle:


Baffle mounted and all edges rounded over ( ¼ round over utilized ):


BP1803 taking a break, on top of a marty/si18:


Stopped messing around with the sub for a bit, so I could take my wife out to dinner at Orange hills for our 4 year wedding anniversary….here’s the killer view, from our table:


Popped the driver in for no other reason than to see how it looked Also in this picture you can some spackle I used to smooth over grainy areas. The pencil lines that you can also see in this picture are where I will be routing out, so that I can add a tile border (1 inch glass mosaic) in order to dress up a bit. I wanted to do something a little more elaborate this time because I felt like I needed to prove to myself that I was now more capable of making something besides a duratexed, black box, since id already been there/done that.


Tile shopping on Lowes.com….Here’s the glass mosaic I choose. I thought this would look nice contrasting against black duratex. Not gonna lie though, I was a little unsure of how the tile would turn out since I have never tiled anything, but caution be dammed in the spirit of DIY!:



In order to protect the driver I planned on mounting a piece of glass above it using these sharp looking brushed aluminum standoffs I found. My plan was to mount a stand off in each corner of the top of the table. The glass itself will be 34 x 34 x 3/8 inch thick. Dime radius corners ( equivalent to about ¼ inch round over ) with a polished edge. The glass shop will also drill ¼ inch holes for the standoffs….


Router setup so I can start getting rid of the wood where the tile will be inset. Router depth set to 3/8 inch to match the height of the tile:


First pass with the router done:


Started test fitting some tile:


Duratex 1st coat done:


Driver dropped in just for kicks, and positioned standoffs. Grouting is still needed though:


Began grouting while blasting some POWERWOLF from the garage speakers. Give them a listen if you’re a Metallica or avenged sevenfold fan!: Also, I seriously did not know what the hell I was doing, but I followed the directions on the bag of grout and watched a few youtube videos, and I ended up very pleased with the results which you’ll see further down. Also, in the grout was an elastomeric additive I bought at the tile store which is suppose to help prevent the grout from cracking:


Wiping off excess grout:


Here’s how she’s looking now that the grout is dry:
ps- you may have noticed the other enclosure in the back. Thats' going to be a sealed 18 Im helping a friend of mine build.


Close-ups of the grout and tile. Check out the different colors and patterns in the glass tile….SO SEXY : ) !
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Last edited by kevings; 08-08-2014 at 03:44 PM.
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post #2 of 38 Old 08-07-2014, 10:30 PM - Thread Starter
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OK, had to continue my original post, in a separate post because the forum has a limit of 30 attachments.....

anyhow, at this point I kind of got over eager to get things done and i didn't really photograph the bracing i installed, the mounting of the stand offs, or of the top glass piece. But here are pics of the coffee table, in it's new home:











impressions:
-My ears tell me the null has been reduced but I haven't quantified the reduction yet. Soon I will fire up REW though and do so.

-Overall tactile sensation / the nearfield effect is much stronger with this sub ( 4th 18 ) added to the system. I almost feel like I don't even need the bass shakers in the couch anymore / they are somewhat redundant, but I'll leave them since they are already installed and I do enjoy their effect too, when its subtle and not overblown / calling attention to themselves.

Also, the ports of the sub face the seating area, and I'm sure this is also adding to the nearfield intensity.

Anyhow fellas, I really enjoyed building this, and hope you enjoyed checking it out.
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Last edited by kevings; 08-16-2014 at 03:40 PM.
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post #3 of 38 Old 08-07-2014, 10:52 PM
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First rate plans, patience , attention to detail and "You Are There" pics and documentation.
Congrats on a splendid piece of fun

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post #4 of 38 Old 08-07-2014, 10:55 PM
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Looks awesome Kevin, question for you though. Why not recess the driver into the face of the baffle?
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post #5 of 38 Old 08-07-2014, 11:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asarose247 View Post
First rate plans, patience , attention to detail and "You Are There" pics and documentation.
Congrats on a splendid piece of fun
thx Will! not just for the compliment, but for everything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
Looks awesome Kevin, question for you though. Why not recess the driver into the face of the baffle?
thx!

JB i thought about it, but i guess i like seeing more of the driver, than less of it. I also wanted it to match the other 3 subs.
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post #6 of 38 Old 08-07-2014, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevings View Post

JB i thought about it, but i guess i like seeing more of the driver, than less of it. I also wanted it to match the other 3 subs.
Gotcha, looks great either way! nice work!
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post #7 of 38 Old 08-07-2014, 11:18 PM
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I saw that post it drawing and busted a gut When my students bring up a drawing like that I say get it out of here !
Looks really stylish the sub with tile and glass . You sit there and stare at the sub moving , don't u
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post #8 of 38 Old 08-07-2014, 11:24 PM - Thread Starter
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I saw that post it drawing and busted a gut When my students bring up a drawing like that I say get it out of here !
Looks really stylish the sub with tile and glass . You sit there and stare at the sub moving , don't u
haha, thx d.

and yeah, im a "sub watcher" but i know that you are too! : )

( im thinking about that thread where you and jb were talking about having your theater totally blacked out or having some lights on )


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post #9 of 38 Old 08-07-2014, 11:32 PM
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Kevin,

Looks very nice. I was wondering whether you finished it. Glass tiles on the face is a very nice touch.

Did you put the white dot on the driver? It will be mesmerizing to watch while the sub is in action.

Manoj
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post #10 of 38 Old 08-07-2014, 11:47 PM
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Looks great! Classy.
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post #11 of 38 Old 08-08-2014, 02:36 AM
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This is an interesting design, only problem is that it will most likely cause unwanted reflections off of the center channel and possibly even the mains.
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post #12 of 38 Old 08-08-2014, 03:01 AM
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I really like your write up style and the end result.
Now, since it's a coffee table put a cup of coffee in the middle, and take some video of it. Maybe use it to mix coffee and creme? Or high speed video to show ripples in the coffee top surface?
Like a physics demonstration of waves.
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post #13 of 38 Old 08-08-2014, 05:37 AM
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Awesome build man! I wish I was this creative

No issues with the glass panel bouncing around or flexing or making any unwanted resonance?
4 18's that close and bass shakers? You guys are nuts. lol
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post #14 of 38 Old 08-08-2014, 05:45 AM
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I was curious if your grout would ever begin to flake or break down because of the flexing subsurface?

Either way it looks awesome. And Pgwalsh's design has had me wanting to do an ottoman for a very long time. And now with your designI might have to do one near Xmas now.


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post #15 of 38 Old 08-08-2014, 07:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post
This is an interesting design, only problem is that it will most likely cause unwanted reflections off of the center channel and possibly even the mains.
I thought about reflections too and here's what I did. Out of curiosity I listened to some music and movies with the glass on and off to see if I could tell the difference, and I couldn't. I had my wife listen as well as a friend of mine, and they couldn't either. I know that acoustically, my room / theater could be setup SO much better. For example, I have got large posters on the walls, in glass frames, and I'm sure those reflect a good amount of sound to. I know I could take them down and replace them with some large diy sound absorbing panels, but I like the look and feel of the room, and I'm happy with the way movies sound. If I had a dedicated theater room on the other hand, there I think I would definitely try and go for a no compromises type of setup.

At the end of the day though, I have dynamic sound, at an spl range that I like, combined with some nice low end. But most importantly to me, the layout of the room allows me to have some friends and their wives over, and for everyone to be comfortable while relaxing / watching a movie together.

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Originally Posted by PM-Performance View Post
Awesome build man! I wish I was this creative

No issues with the glass panel bouncing around or flexing or making any unwanted resonance?
4 18's that close and bass shakers? You guys are nuts. lol
Thx! Nah, no issues with the glass. It's 3/8 inch thick and 34 x 34, and fairly heavy. It's also held on pretty tightly by the standoffs. The standoffs have a quarter inch threaded rod in the middle. The holes in the corner of the glass allow it to sit evenly on the standoffs, and then there is the standoff cap which gets screwed down. I also checked the xmax on the driver and made sure that the glass was mounted a few millimeters higher than that, just to be sure the driver never hits the glass. Truthfully though, i doubt this sub will ever see it's xmax in my theater, even at reference volume.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post
I was curious if your grout would ever begin to flake or break down because of the flexing subsurface?

Either way it looks awesome. And Pgwalsh's design has had me wanting to do an ottoman for a very long time. And now with your designI might have to do one near Xmas now.
thx! The cracking grout issue is something I definitely have thought about it. Couple of things to share with you here....1st, I did add an additive to the grout, which gave it a more rubbery/caulking type of texture, and is suppose to prevent cracks. 2nd, this sub never really works that hard. What I mean is that with 4 18's now in the room, and my preference to listen to movies at just 3 db hot, individually each sub is calibrated at about 69db, because when they all play together, REW's SPL meter says im at 78db ( 3 db hot ). So even during 5 star bass flicks like "The Hulk" which I just watched yesterday, each sub individually isn't really working that hard, but the LFE is there, with low distortion, and with lots of headroom if needed.

If one day though, I do see the grout cracking and going to hell, at that point im going to take off the glass top, chisel out the grout and tile, and replace all that with some nice strips of dark espresso colored wood, with mitered corners, to match the rest of the furniture in the house. There is an awesome place here in orange county called Ganalh lumber and they sell all sorts of exotic woods that could could be used.


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Last edited by kevings; 08-08-2014 at 07:18 AM.
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post #16 of 38 Old 08-08-2014, 07:18 AM
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VERY cool and inspiring. I've been thinking about different ways to work in a nearfield setup for my first row and this does give me some ideas. I'm thinking of an ottoman type solution for my center seat front row (which does not recline).


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post #17 of 38 Old 08-08-2014, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post
This is an interesting design, only problem is that it will most likely cause unwanted reflections off of the center channel and possibly even the mains.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevings View Post
I thought about reflections too and here's what I did. Out of curiosity I listened to some music and movies with the glass on and off to see if I could tell the difference, and I couldn't. I had my wife listen as well as a friend of mine, and they couldn't either. I know that acoustically, my room / theater could be setup SO much better. For example, I have got large posters on the walls, in glass frames, and I'm sure those reflect a good amount of sound to. I know I could take them down and replace them with some large diy sound absorbing panels, but I like the look and feel of the room, and I'm happy with the way movies sound. If I had a dedicated theater room on the other hand, there I think I would definitely try and go for a no compromises type of setup.

At the end of the day though, I have dynamic sound, at an spl range that I like, combined with some nice low end. But most importantly to me, the layout of the room allows me to have some friends and their wives over, and for everyone to be comfortable while relaxing / watching a movie together.
At the end of the day the only real way you can know if acoustic reflections are an issue in small room acoustic space is to take measurements and look at ETC chart.

From looking at your layout I'd guess like Martycool007 did that it might be an issue.
Depends on your speakers dispersion pattern.
Ideally you want the reflected sound to be 15 to 20 db less than the direct sound in first 20ms or so.
That's a design goal for lots of HT's in small acoustic space, each speaker.


from here

Mike R,P.E. clickable DIY hot links:

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post #18 of 38 Old 08-08-2014, 09:12 AM
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very nice


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post #19 of 38 Old 08-08-2014, 02:54 PM
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Just plain Awesome!

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post #20 of 38 Old 08-08-2014, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post


from here
There are similar diagrams in the Toole book (that also include curves for sounds other than speech), but the one you posted is from an AES conference presentation (i.e., people looking for that diagram in the Toole book won't find it there).
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Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post
Ideally you want the reflected sound to be 15 to 20 db less than the direct sound in first 20ms or so.
That's a design goal for lots of HT's in small acoustic space, each speaker.
That might be ideal for a studio workspace but is not described as ideal for a recreational listening space in the Toole book above.

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post #21 of 38 Old 08-16-2014, 01:22 PM
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This is awesome. Someone needs to go into business making these.

I'd buy it for $1,500 (with a $250 driver, no amp).


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post #22 of 38 Old 08-16-2014, 03:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jhgkak View Post
This is awesome. Someone needs to go into business making these.

I'd buy it for $1,500 (with a $250 driver, no amp).
thx! I do agree with you about there being a market for coffee tables, end tables, and ottomans, which contain subwoofers. i mounted the sub face up cause i though it would be cool to be able to see the sub under the glass, but i could of just as easily of mounted the sub on the bottom, and the whole project would have been much more stealthy / and ended up with a higher WAF.


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post #23 of 38 Old 08-16-2014, 03:13 PM
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gotta admit that coffee table is pretty awesome

how much do glasses on it shake BTW?


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post #24 of 38 Old 08-16-2014, 03:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Sibuna View Post
gotta admit that coffee table is pretty awesome

how much do glasses on it shake BTW?
Sibuna,

believe it or not, glasses on it shake very minimally. I typically watch movies at somewhere between -5 and -10db from reference. I like to run my subs collectively at about 3-4 db hot. Because there are 4 18's in the room ( which isnt large ( 14 x 18 x 8 ), each sub on it's own is calibrated to about 69 db, but when all 4 are pumping, I end up at about 78-79 db relative to all other speakers set at 75db. Overall though, because it's only calibrated at 69db, even at reference, the sub is 6db below, so it never even breaks a sweat.

glass is also 3/8inch thick and 34 x 34 inches so it's got some nice weight to it as well.

overall id guess the whole sub weighs somewhere in the 200lb-240lb range, so it aint going anywhere

i will also tell you that nearfield bass is pretty kick ass with it. sitting in my main listening position im probably about 3 feet away from it or so.

ps- your enclosure for the 24 is looking nice. Im looking forward to seeing it with the driver mounted / setup in your room.


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Last edited by kevings; 08-16-2014 at 03:42 PM.
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post #25 of 38 Old 08-16-2014, 10:12 PM
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Kev,
I see your infinity speakers for sale. What are you building next ?
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post #26 of 38 Old 08-17-2014, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by kevings View Post
thx Will! not just for the compliment, but for everything.



thx!

JB i thought about it, but i guess i like seeing more of the driver, than less of it. I also wanted it to match the other 3 subs.
I'm with u Kevings. That's why I decided against the flush mount when I installed my driver on my Marty.

Really cool build BTW.

Question. How does the sound being placed in the middle of the room like that? Is the output significantly less then being against a wall it does the fact that its more near field compensate for the output loss?

Yamaha rxv373

Ascend acoustics cbm 340se mains
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post #27 of 38 Old 08-17-2014, 09:11 AM
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Love this build
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post #28 of 38 Old 08-17-2014, 09:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post
Kev,
I see your infinity speakers for sale. What are you building next ?
Not building this time ( I felt like I needed a break from diy just for a bit, especially since I start a new job on August 25th). I went with electro voice exl 212 monitors for the front soundstage and 4 jbl control 28's for the surrounds. I just got done getting it all dialed in and I'm super happy with the results. Super dynamic, crazy chest slamming spl, and surrounds that can play cleanly in excess of 105db.

I also felt like I had to upgrade, because my past setup couldn't keep up with the 4 18's. Now though, things are back in balance.


Quote:
Originally Posted by newc33 View Post
I'm with u Kevings. That's why I decided against the flush mount when I installed my driver on my Marty.

Really cool build BTW.

Question. How does the sound being placed in the middle of the room like that? Is the output significantly less then being against a wall it does the fact that its more near field compensate for the output loss?
Newc, thx buddy. Yeah, there is less output because it's in the middle, but that doesn't mean it's output isn't significant ( after all, it's still a ported 18 w/ over a 1000 watts pushing it) . Near field effect is very strong with the coffee table sub, and it's a cool thing to experience.

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Originally Posted by MemX View Post
Love this build
Memx, thx! I enjoyed making it.. I thought it was something cool, unique, and pretty kick ass from a home theater perspective.


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post #29 of 38 Old 08-17-2014, 11:34 AM
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That is an awesome coffee table sub!


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post #30 of 38 Old 08-17-2014, 02:20 PM
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Its awesome.
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